Wally West: The Flash Appreciation 2019

[Dataweaver]

Yet Even if Hal's actions were retcon doesn't truly clear Hal of his overall past.

That doesn't seem to matter to Hal's fans since Green Lantern Rebirth came out. It helps that it's rarely if ever referenced these days.

[Lee]

My knowledge of what HiC did is strictly secondhand. But with that said: I could see salvaging something from it by way of saying that the release of Speed Force energy that killed everyone also warped Wally's mind in unnatural ways. In effect, it's the Parallax fix, but without needing to invite an alien entity: Wally didn't deliberately cause the massacre, and wasn't in his right mind in the aftermath; so all of the out-of-character things he did there aren't his fault. As the effects of the Speed Force Explosion recede, he can return to sanity and then work through the sense of guilt he's bound to have until he comes to terms with it.

There's a precedent for this. In #9 of the current Flash series something similar happened to Barry: https://imgur.com/a/UYrYRsF

What caused it is still a mystery, but it seems to be related to Reverse-Flash and/or the Negative Speed Force.

But whether it's Negative Speed Force, Dark Multiverse, Dr Manhattan or Parallax, there really needs to be a Hal Jordan style fix, otherwise the character is just broken.

[dornwolf]

Ok so I found some good news after HiC: In Lighter News- Jimmy Olsen got married in Leviathan Rising to a Multiversal Thief in what can only be described as DCÂ’s The Hangover in gorilla city. HeÂ’s also confirmed to have Prior Relationships with a Kobra Kultist and Talia Al Ghul.

This Gives us something to talk in Lighter Hearts about

You forgot the best part. He has Dex-Starr with him as well

[Dataweaver]

There's a precedent for this. In #9 of the current Flash series something similar happened to Barry: https://imgur.com/a/UYrYRsF

What caused it is still a mystery, but it seems to be related to Reverse-Flash and/or the Negative Speed Force.

But whether it's Negative Speed Force, Dark Multiverse, Dr Manhattan or Parallax, there really needs to be a Hal Jordan style fix, otherwise the character is just broken.

Yes! This is the sort of thing I'm talking about! The particulars can be worked out by whoever writes it; but something to the effect of “a freak accident involving the Speed Force made Wally do terrible things” could go a long way toward salvaging this mess. Having said freak accident be some sorry of glitch in the Speed Force that Wally can be instrumental in tracking down and fixing would go even further. That's basically what GL: Rebirth did: it off-loaded the worst of Hal's sins onto the Parallax Entity, and then sent Hal on a mission to beat it into submission.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

Jimmy’s Hangover was actually Matt Fraction. He’s relaubching Superman’s Pal Jimmy Olsen in July

Oh yeah, I figured. Bendis is the reason that Fraction has made the jump to DC, though, as near as I can tell.

[Kyer]

Please note that I've just seen scans of this POS.

So...

When Barry lost Iris and was upset enough to snap RF's neck like a twig.... no explosion of emotional Speed Force lightning?
When Impulse lost Max and the whole downward turn of events from there.... no Speed Force deadly storm?

I vote this whole thing from after Rebirth #1 be a Dr. Manhattan experiment that Superman will talk him into undoing -back to pre Flashpoint. Heck, back to pre-Let's Get Rid Of Anyone Who Was Once A Titan.

I can not state enough how much I despise this HIC. I still love Wally just as much as ever, but everything else DC save Impulse has been ruined for me. Why is it that every book character I've fallen for save Gandalf the Grey (and for a bit while reading the trilogy that was a near thing) has been ruined by idiots?

[Kyer]

some excerpts from a review that made good points.

if there’s supposed to be some hope here, wally’s aimless monologue as he sits alone in the dark in his suit doesn’t do much to inspire it. A handful of characters get to move on, while wally’s punishment is to keep doing what kicked off this tragic series of events in the first place - to sit, alone, and dwell on everything he’s lost, and who he’s supposed to be, and how he’s fallen short of that?


“older” wally implores “young” wally to talk to people about what he’s dealing with, reassures him that he’s not alone, but in the end, alone is exactly what he is - it’s literally the last moment we spend with wally, seeing the shadows of prison bars cast over his downtrodden figure, while booster gold and blue beetle laugh over beers and harley and ivy take a quiet walk through the woods.

this! ................

[Dataweaver]

Please note that I've just seen scans of this POS.

So...

When Barry lost Iris and was upset enough to snap RF's neck like a twig.... no explosion of emotional Speed Force lightning?
When Impulse lost Max and the whole downward turn of events from there.... no Speed Force deadly storm?

I vote this whole thing from after Rebirth #1 be a Dr. Manhattan experiment that Superman will talk him into undoing -back to pre Flashpoint. Heck, back to pre-Let's Get Rid Of Anyone Who Was Once A Titan.

I can not state enough how much I despise this HIC. I still love Wally just as much as ever, but everything else DC save Impulse has been ruined for me. Why is it that every book character I've fallen for save Gandalf the Grey (and for a bit while reading the trilogy that was a near thing) has been ruined by idiots?

For what it's worth, I agree with this sentiment: a “Bobby in the Shower” solution (where the event in question is completely written out of continuity) would be ideal.

[Supermutant2099]

For what it's worth, I agree with this sentiment: a “Bobby in the Shower” solution (where the event in question is completely written out of continuity) would be ideal.

Wally wakes up and Iris in the shower. Bam all DC books back to pre new 52 universe as the way Doomsday Clock really ends? I be fine with that. Sadly its only a dream.

[Dataweaver]

Yeah; I don't see Doomsday Clock completely undoing the New 52. Johns is more likely to use it mainly to bring back the JSA and Legion of Superheroes, and maybe making a few tweaks here and there, while leaving the majority of what has transpired since Flashpoint intact. And unfortunately, I don't think he has the authority to remove HiC from continuity. Which is why my initial musings were along the lines of how to fix it rather than how to dump it.

And just to be clear: even the Parallaxing of HiC is something I consider unlikely. Possible, yes. But unlikely.

[WallyWestFlash]

Fake Wally #1 was retconned in Rebirth special so hopefully now fake Wally #2 will just be retconned away as well.

Hopefully Didi doesn't get a third chance to bury Wally.

[Blue22]

Yeah; I don't see Doomsday Clock completely undoing the New 52. Johns is more likely to use it mainly to bring back the JSA and Legion of Superheroes, and maybe making a few tweaks here and there, while leaving the majority of what has transpired since Flashpoint intact. And unfortunately, I don't think he has the authority to remove HiC from continuity. Which is why my initial musings were along the lines of how to fix it rather than how to dump it.

And just to be clear: even the Parallaxing of HiC is something I consider unlikely. Possible, yes. But unlikely.

Wally wakes up and Iris in the shower. Bam all DC books back to pre new 52 universe as the way Doomsday Clock really ends? I be fine with that. Sadly its only a dream.

Even if it was Johns' original intention, would Didio even allow Doomsday Clock to end with the return of the pre-flashpoint continuity? As much as I wish we could go back, doing it on the spot like that is liable to be just as jarring and confusing as the original shift to this current continuity was.

I still think the New 52 should have just been the DC equivalent to the Ultimate Universe. That way we could have kept the old continuity.

[Potanical Pardon]

New 52 was always Heroes Reborn. It was even headlined by most of the same exact people.

Even Flash #0 contradicts everything in both HIC and Wally's return.

Just make it Walter West who did all this garbage. I like that character, but they haven't done anything with him anyway. Better him, than Wally.

[Talon1load]

Agreed. My thought on that is that there was more to the situation than just that Wally had a mental breakdown. The other enabling factor might be that Wally is “badly out of tune” with the Metaverse, essentially being a refugee from an iteration that no longer exists. That, combined with being connected to the Speed Force, could be used to justify the Boom; and conversely, could be used to ensure it never happens again: reattune Wally to the Metaverse — or the Metaverse to Wally (by bringing his family back into continuity with him, similar to what Superman Reborn did for Superman) — and the danger of a psychotic-triggered boom goes away.

Except King didn’t know about Wally and the metaverse because that just came out today in DDC.

EDIT: sorry, I didn’t see that you were talking about ways to fix this.

[Dataweaver]

New 52 was always Heroes Reborn. It was even headlined by most of the same exact people.

Even Flash #0 contradicts everything in both HIC and Wally's return.

Just make it Walter West who did all this garbage. I like that character, but they haven't done anything with him anyway. Better him, than Wally.

Heh. The “evil twin” ploy. I'm having trouble seeing how that would work in this case, though.

Walter hasn't been used in a while because he was exiled back into Hypertime, complete with a tragic breakup with his impending girlfriend. Setting him up as a substitute for Wally after the fact would almost certainly stretch credulity even more than HiC did — though admittedly not as obnoxiously.

Still, if someone could figure out a way to do it (either with Walter or some other “evil twin”) that makes sense, I'd be open to the notion.

Heck, I've even considered the possibility of roping Kwyzz into this. Originally, Kwyzz was an alien planet, and Krakkyl was its champion; but if you look as Morrison's map of the Multiverse, you'll notice that he placed Kwyzz in the Speed Force. That, and the early N52 Flash stories, indicate that there are places and inhabitants within the Speed Force, and not just speedsters Lost in a nebulous Phantom Zone like void. If you want to go very Parallax-like, you could say that there's a monster in Kwyzz which, due to Wally's connection to Kwyzz, was able to hide inside him while he was trapped in the Speed Force, and tagged along when he returned. This monster then lay dormant inside him until he had his nervous breakdown, when it was able to usurp control — causing both the Explosion and Wally's subsequent bad behavior. Excise that monster, and Wally can go back to being himself.

My main problem with this idea is that it's essentially a rehash of GL:Rebirth; it does the job, but there's no creativity in it.