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  1. #3481
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterfall View Post
    Oh please, I've seen those days too. Right now the fandom IS toxic. DC Comics moved on, they don't give you any hope about it at all. You will never going to "see" what you are waiting. It's getting unhealthy for some people here, instead of repeating same things again, you can move on from Flash. It's not hard, that's fiction, you can pick something else instead.
    Well, it's not getting unhealthy for me, because, you know, funny books.

    That said, first of all, never say "never". Barry is the Flash again after all.

    But more importantly, let me ask (honestly, no snark): Would you like a DCU where Wally is mandated out of all books? Or one where he simply doesn't exist? Would you like one where the only version we have is Wallace, the most inexperienced hero and a 12 year old? Would you like a universe where a pacemaker was inserted into his past, negating all of his career and assuring he can't really run? Or, better yet, a PTSD-ridden Wally West, tied to the Suicide Squad and moping about killing his friends?

    Because all of those were, I'm sure as hell, ideas that DC wouldn't have mind to play long term. The one reason they didn't fly is because fan backlash.

    I don't run on "hope given by DC". I, and anyone who's looking, know pretty well where they stand. I run on calling out bullshit.

    It IS a death knell for Wally. You can market GLs without any difficulties because they are not stuck to another character. Wally's mainstream appeal is that he's younger (20s), more fun Flash but when you pick up a comic, that's simply not the case. Wally can't bring in new readers if they don't go after what makes Wally appealing. Rebirth one-shot had the opportunity to update Wally for modern era Flash but fanboys lost their goddamn minds over the idea of Wally moving on. Because of whiny fans, they had him mope around and now he's stuck in a status quo that haven't worked for him over 15 YEARS.
    That's only partially true. The calls for the kids return are somewhat recent; back when they were introduced, they weren't all that popular. That said, there are ways to bring the kids back and not saddle Wally with them (Depower them, make them exist only in the future, whatever). They don't have to be a big deal, and the only reason DC pretends that they do is so they can sideline him further,

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    I'd like for Wally to get Nightwing status. But unfortunately there seems to be a lot of resistance to that. Kyle Rayner struggles as "the other Green Lantern", Tim Drake struggled as "the other Robin" ("Drake" doesn't fill me with much confidence, but at least they're finally trying) and Wally struggles as "the other Flash". I honestly believe that the only way out of it is for him to have his own super-hero identity, like Nightwing, with a premise that can stand on its own..
    Wally is not Nightwing. Nightwing is "almost as good as Batman". Wally's is the Flash. He's as much or more the Flash as Barry, whether current management likes it or not. That's integral to his character and removing it so he doesn't "Stand in the way" is BS. I prefer to complain to the end of my life than to see a bastardized version and be ok with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Ellingham View Post
    While I'm on board with that mindset, I think most fans want to see their favorites on the regular, versus once every couple of years via flashback stories or crossovers. We all want what we want, of course. But I think those fans outvote us on this. For them better a mediocre concept with Wally if it means a viable role, versus once every 2 years in prime form.
    Oh, but I sure would like to ssee him more than "every couple of years". But there are ways to do so: there are guest appearances and team books and story opportunities aplenty. Wally's scarcity and moppiness are a mandate. We know that.
    ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.

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  2. #3482
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Walter West looks like a badass accomplished adult hero. Kingdom Come Flash looks like a badass accomplished adult hero. John Fox (One Million) looks like a badass accomplished adult hero. Godspeed looks like a badass adult Flash character. They each break at least one of the rules you've laid down.
    Walter looks great as an alternate reality Flash. So does Kingdom Come Wally. John Fox looks like a newbie in any of his suits.

    Not one of those look good beside the classic costume, though.

    I think you're reading too much into how Howard Porter drew the belt, zigging one way instead of zagging the other.
    Well, feel free to think that. But although we do see the belt drawn this way during Wally's tenure sometimes - which is, indeed, artistic interpretation - Barry's belt has been mostly consistently drawn this way since the new 52. The correct shape is highlighted in the reference sheet in the reference sheet at the end of Justice League #3 or #4.

    It is intentional. If you think it's "whatever", then ok.

    There's a difference between saying "I'm not optimistic about X, because of Y and Z" and "the Wally story in Flash #750 sucks, even though it hasn't been published yet, I haven't read it and know absolutely nothing about the creative team, plot, or what era it's set in". There's a difference between saying "I think The Flash Age will ruin Wally" and "The Flash Age will ruin Wally".
    Yeah, I went 10 pages on this thread. One person (Waterfall) said that. In context, we can can clearly see that his/her post is meant to represent her beliefs, not a fact. (Beliefs that many os us share, sure, but still). What's the point in dwelling in that one post?

    If Wally stays around in a diminished capacity, then by definition he and Barry aren't getting equal billing and they're not on equal footing. One is the star, the other is a supporting character.
    You're being purposely obtuse. I said that I ant to see Wally as an equal in universe, and that the cotume is part of that. You keep moving the goal-post to "but Barry is the star!". We all know that. It doesn't change one bit of what I'm saying.

    When Kyle was the White Lantern, he actually had a book, so maybe it wasn't the worst thing.
    Did he interact with the larger DCU? Did we see him hang with his friends? Was he even that important to the GL franchise? That book was designed to remove him. Not cool or him (tought he book was good, thanks to Justin Jordan).

    On the other hand, some makeovers do work, like Nightwing and Red Hood.
    Nighwing is Batman-lite. Red Hood is Dan Didio refusing to acknowledge his mistakes. (Or "bad boy Batman, as you will).

    Wally is the Flash. Not Flash-lite, not cosmic Flash, not bad boy Flash. The Flash.

    At this point it's practically a given that Wally's history in the DC Universe is going to be restored. And hopefully DC will fix the damage they did with Heroes in Crisis.
    Did you arrive at the Flash fandom only yesterday? NO obvious thing is a given.

    I'd rather have an evolved Wally West who can sustain a spin-off series, like Nightwing. But if the majority of fans truly want Wally to be "the '90s Flash" who shows up alongside the other speedsters once a year as a bit of fan service, I'm confident their wish will be granted.
    "Demoted" doesn't mean "evolved". And I hope you're right.
    ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.

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  3. #3483
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    I'd argue that Kyle was doomed as a character when his girlfriend got killed and put into a fridge. A blow like that, especially early on in the series makes a character look impotent and the power ups/ upgrades he got later felt like DC was only pretending he was going to be relevant
    .
    You mean 3 issues after he appeared? He WAS impotent then. He hadn't even found a power battery at the time. The rookie who knows nothing about nothing. was pretty much his driving force.

    Kyle's popularity soared for a LONG time after Alex's death... If anything, I think he was doomed BECAUSE that's ALL he had going for him. once he got past that 'rookie flying by the seat of his pants' stage... he didn't have much else to offer. So they kept pushing Ions and White Lanterns to make him clueless again... but it didn't stick.

  4. #3484
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    You mean 3 issues after he appeared? He WAS impotent then. He hadn't even found a power battery at the time. The rookie who knows nothing about nothing. was pretty much his driving force.

    Kyle's popularity soared for a LONG time after Alex's death... If anything, I think he was doomed BECAUSE that's ALL he had going for him. once he got past that 'rookie flying by the seat of his pants' stage... he didn't have much else to offer. So they kept pushing Ions and White Lanterns to make him clueless again... but it didn't stick.
    He was impotent at the time of Alex's murder, but even after that and all the upgrades he received/ experience he gained, Kyle still felt impotent(at least to me). It felt like the writers gave him all these upgrades to overcompensate for the blow they dealt him so early in his career.

  5. #3485
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    While I think this whole conversation has been mostly a healthy debate among fans, I do feel like a lot the conversation stemming under the belief, or fear really, that DC are about to get rid of Wally West. I understand not liking the editorial decisions for the character, or the directions they took the character. I totally get it, I really do. Yet I actually don't think Wally is in that bad of a position.

    He was still part of the Titans comic no later than last year, and was part of a major Flash story line, Flash War, where it was confirmed that he was indeed the fastest man alive. Say anything about the quality of Heroes in Crisis, however he did have a major role in that. I know a lot of us didn't like the turn they took with his character (really I do, I completely understand, I don't need a detail response why HiC ruined the character or why it was worse for him to be a part of it), nonetheless HiC was still a major event comic that was release this year. And now he's in Flash Forward, which, again, I get how it is not everyone's cup of tea (though, personally, I think it was a better alternative than him being a part of the Suicide Squad).

    Wally has had consistent presence with the DCU since Rebirth, so I don't understand why there's concern that he'll magically disappear all of a sudden. He even had a cameo in Doomsday Clock (with no signs of Wallace or the upcoming Flash 5G replacement). Even if he ends up vanishing, dying, or ascending at the very end of Flash Forward or at the upcoming crisis, I have faith he'll return sooner rather than later. Call me an optimist, but I can't imagine them completely giving up on good ole-Wally-West.

    I guess the issues comes from the fact that Wally has no real reason to exist anymore, especially with Barry and Wallace effectively taking his place. I'm not really too concern with that really; like some people on here have pointed out, Wally can still exist in Team books or in the occasional guest appearance. It is also not too absurd to believe he'll never get a solo ever again, maybe not now but eventually he can. I don't understand why they didn't just add him in one of the three Justice League books that came after Metal, though I guess DC's overall uncertainty with what to do to with the character is the real problem in everything.

    It is also not as if Wally has disappeared from other media outside of the comics. He is a playable character in Lego DC Super-Villains, DC Legends: Battle for Justice, and the mobile port of Injustice, and those are recent games. As someone pointed out, he did just have his own toy release based on his Rebirth costume (which you can still buy on Amazon). He also just showed up in Young Justice, though in that case he only appears as a hallucination. Even though Wally on the Flash TV show is more like Wallace West than the actual Wally West from the comics, for all intense and purposes Wally does exist in the CW's Flash. He even takes up Barry's role as main Flash in season 4, just like Wally from the comics.

    My point being that I do think Wally has a presence in the DCU, and I do think he can, and will, show up in future DC properties. He'll probably not make it to the movies, and a more comic accurate Wally will also probably not make it in the CW's Flash, but that doesn't mean the other medias will follow. Besides I think the DCU properties outside the comics are in the awkward position where they are still short of basing their stuff on New 52 continuity, yet are now transitioning into more classical stories/Rebirth. I think once the other media catch up, we will start seeing the Flash Family in other media in a similar way to the comics.

    Anyways, this long rambling is just me saying that I am not too concern with Wally's current predicament. If I can be patient with Ric Grayson, I can be patient with this as well.

  6. #3486
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterfall View Post

    No, there is a tiny line between whining and discussing. Repeating same arguments over and over again is whining. Things need to move on now. That's the status quo and it will never change. Unless Wally comes out as bisexual, I don't see why DC must put any afford on a guy who doesn't bring anything special to table now. Anything you can do with Wally, you can do it with Barry as well. Why bother?
    Can barry become kid flash and have a mentor? Can he transition from kid flash to the flash? No, he can't. As for bisexuality, sure why not? go for it. If people are that superficial that they only care about surface level representation and tokenism and If it helps the character, go for it. Better yet, have wally get a tan or something.Then, he can be a brown-redhead-bisexual-exsidekick-current flash.
    Dude, i said these guy do whine. I never said otherwise. But, these guys have been talking about waids, titans run.. Etc just a few pages back. So this notion whining is all that is happening in this thread is baseless.

  7. #3487
    Three Legged Member married guy's Avatar
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    He was still part of the Titans comic no later than last year, and was part of a major Flash story line, Flash War, where it was confirmed that he was indeed the fastest man alive. Say anything about the quality of Heroes in Crisis, however he did have a major role in that. I know a lot of us didn't like the turn they took with his character (really I do, I completely understand, I don't need a detail response why HiC ruined the character or why it was worse for him to be a part of it), nonetheless HiC was still a major event comic that was release this year. And now he's in Flash Forward, which, again, I get how it is not everyone's cup of tea (though, personally, I think it was a better alternative than him being a part of the Suicide Squad).

    This is all true. The problem is HiC was an absolute disgrace. Badly written tripe that wrote every character within it's pages completely out of character with HUGE gaps in logic and narrative. Being a part of it was hardly a boon for Wally West. Flash Forward only appeared as a way to appease the Wally West fans who were screaming for blood.

    Wally has had consistent presence with the DCU since Rebirth, so I don't understand why there's concern that he'll magically disappear all of a sudden. He even had a cameo in Doomsday Clock (with no signs of Wallace or the upcoming Flash 5G replacement). Even if he ends up vanishing, dying, or ascending at the very end of Flash Forward or at the upcoming crisis, I have faith he'll return sooner rather than later. Call me an optimist, but I can't imagine them completely giving up on good ole-Wally-West. People are thinking he will disappear because DC has made it patently clear over the last decade that they don't want him.

    I guess the issues comes from the fact that Wally has no real reason to exist anymore, especially with Barry and Wallace effectively taking his place. I'm not really too concern with that really; like some people on here have pointed out, Wally can still exist in Team books or in the occasional guest appearance. It is also not too absurd to believe he'll never get a solo ever again, maybe not now but eventually he can. I don't understand why they didn't just add him in one of the three Justice League books that came after Metal, though I guess DC's overall uncertainty with what to do to with the character is the real problem in everything.
    Of course he has a reason to exist!! He was the FIRST of the sidekicks to assume the mantle for REAL. He grew up, got married and became a father while also being the fastest man alive. Legacy has always been a part of the Flash. Barry was inspired by Jay, Wally by Barry, Bart by.... OK maybe not Bart,

    It is also not as if Wally has disappeared from other media outside of the comics. He is a playable character in Lego DC Super-Villains, DC Legends: Battle for Justice, and the mobile port of Injustice, and those are recent games. As someone pointed out, he did just have his own toy release based on his Rebirth costume (which you can still buy on Amazon). He also just showed up in Young Justice, though in that case he only appears as a hallucination. Even though Wally on the Flash TV show is more like Wallace West than the actual Wally West from the comics, for all intense and purposes Wally does exist in the CW's Flash. He even takes up Barry's role as main Flash in season 4, just like Wally from the comics. The toy mentioned (and I do own & love it) doesn't even have the word 'Flash' appear on it. Just 'Wally West'. As a further kick to the balls, the store I purchased it from mixed it up with Wallace West as both were advertised online as Kid Flash figures. Wally West hasn't been 'Kid' Flash for 30 years. The character that appears on CW Flash is NOT Wally West. Sorry, it isn't. It's a TV version of Wallace West.

    My point being that I do think Wally has a presence in the DCU, and I do think he can, and will, show up in future DC properties. He'll probably not make it to the movies, and a more comic accurate Wally will also probably not make it in the CW's Flash, but that doesn't mean the other medias will follow. Besides I think the DCU properties outside the comics are in the awkward position where they are still short of basing their stuff on New 52 continuity, yet are now transitioning into more classical stories/Rebirth. I think once the other media catch up, we will start seeing the Flash Family in other media in a similar way to the comics.

    Anyways, this long rambling is just me saying that I am not too concern with Wally's current predicament. If I can be patient with Ric Grayson, I can be patient with this as well. I think as a Wally West fan, I've been infinitely patient. When he DOES make a comic appearance, it sells well. His Convergence issues sold almost identical to Barry's issues. Flash Forward has been selling in decent numbers as well considering the damage done by HiC, plus the rush to publish and the polarising creative team attached. I know the comic cycle will eventually turn my way again, but there have been some decisions made regarding Wally that have REALLY pissed me (and quite a few others) off.
    Last edited by married guy; 12-20-2019 at 11:51 PM.
    "My name is Wally West. I'm the fastest man alive!"
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  8. #3488
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    If the fan base consensus is that they’re fine with Wally being a secondary Flash, who does all the same things Barry does, and only appears as an occasional guest star... isn’t that what we already have?

    He’s still called Flash. He has all of Barry’s powers and more. Barry, Bart, Wallace and Iris all consider him to be just as great a hero as Barry, if not more so. His statue is side by side with Barry’s at the Flash Museum entrance. The villains at Iron Heights all consider him a formidable enemy, as do Grodd, Zoom and Kadabra. His mini-series is all about how he’s the only person who can save reality itself, and has reunited him with his adoring children.

    Heroes In Crisis is a big issue that will need to be dealt with, but aside from that he’s been written as a respected hero.

  9. #3489
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    If the fan base consensus is that they’re fine with Wally being a secondary Flash, who does all the same things Barry does, and only appears as an occasional guest star... isn’t that what we already have?

    He’s still called Flash. He has all of Barry’s powers and more. Barry, Bart, Wallace and Iris all consider him to be just as great a hero as Barry, if not more so. His statue is side by side with Barry’s at the Flash Museum entrance. The villains at Iron Heights all consider him a formidable enemy, as do Grodd, Zoom and Kadabra. His mini-series is all about how he’s the only person who can save reality itself, and has reunited him with his adoring children.

    Heroes In Crisis is a big issue that will need to be dealt with, but aside from that he’s been written as a respected hero.
    That's kind of mine point too. I think the issues right now is that there is a lot of anxiety of what will come for Wally after Flash Forward, with the potential outcome possibly being unfavorable. Hopefully that tease in Doomsday Clock, with Wally still running with other speedsters (and possibly his own kids again), is what the future holds for him.

  10. #3490
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Once upon a time maybe being like Nightwing wouldn't have been the worst thing, but Nightwing has become fodder for the likes of good ol boy bottom tier creators like Scott Lobdell. Same as Jason and now Wally. So its hard to say its a better option these days.

  11. #3491
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    If the fan base consensus is that they’re fine with Wally being a secondary Flash, who does all the same things Barry does, and only appears as an occasional guest star... isn’t that what we already have?
    No.

    What we've had so far was "Wally no one remembers", "Wally with a pacemaker inserted into his past, so he could never been really that good", "PTSD Wally" and "PTSD and murderous Wally". All of it in glorified KF suit.

    No outside the immediate Flash family treats him with a modicum of respect, and Titans was a BS title mandated to make all those characters look bad.

    And Flash Forward is both damage control, and set up to remove him from everything else.
    ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.

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  12. #3492
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by transformers03 View Post
    Anyways, this long rambling is just me saying that I am not too concern with Wally's current predicament. If I can be patient with Ric Grayson, I can be patient with this as well.
    God bless you for trying to look at the bright side, but there's history here. Our "Ric Grayson" debacle started way back in 2008....
    ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.

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  13. #3493
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    People remember Wally. The Titans respect him, Superman respects him. The pacemaker was a tempest in a teacup, a bit of adversity for him to overcome, a total non-issue now. Wally created his new suit, he likes it, Bart thinks it’s cool, nobody else has commented on it.

  14. #3494
    Mighty Member Waterfall's Avatar
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    I'm glad the discussion has taken a more productive turn, at least we are putting some solid ideas now.
    January we have 750 special issue where we will certainly get a special cover and maaaybe a short story. After Flash Forward wraps up, there seems to be nothing else for Wally until Crisis.
    I've heard rumors of a 2 months long weekly series like Countdown until Crisis hits, so that's one possibility.

    Now I won't be able to answer everyone but I suppose my comment will be including a lot of similar points anyways;

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    There's a big difference between a character being damaged and a character being ruined. I don't think Barry becoming faster than Wally damages Wally, but I can see why others might. Ruins him though? That's hyperbole. If anything has ruined Wally, it's Heroes in Crisis. But, like most things in super-hero comics, there are ways to fix it.
    I'd like for Wally to get Nightwing status. But unfortunately there seems to be a lot of resistance to that. Kyle Rayner struggles as "the other Green Lantern", Tim Drake struggled as "the other Robin" ("Drake" doesn't fill me with much confidence, but at least they're finally trying) and Wally struggles as "the other Flash". I honestly believe that the only way out of it is for him to have his own super-hero identity, like Nightwing, with a premise that can stand on its own.

    The twins get in the way of Wally being the "cooler and younger" guy in the Flash famiy. But they do present an opportunity for an Incredibles style "family of super-heroes" series, which is something DC doesn't have right now. It was rejected the first time around, because readers didn't want "The Flash" to be a team book. But the concept might be better received as a spinoff title, and fill the gap left after DC aged up Jon Kent.

    People were really digging Superman with a 10 year old son, digging the Super Sons kid adventure book. Maybe there's more room for that kind of thing in 2020? It could hearken back to the original Wally West stories of the 1960s, which were more about a super-hero as a good citizen helping out in the community, rather than life-or-death fights with super-villains.
    • I don't think so. Johns brought back the Speed Force retcon of Barry creating it back in Doomsday Clock, which hurt the franchise and led to the mess named Flashpoint. This only follows the same steps. It's a problem embrodied in mythos now.
    • I'm all for Nightwing route but I don't think he needs a name change. Costume change is enough if you ask me. Hawkeye & Hawkeye deal over Marvel. They have different spots with the same moniker.
    • They've tried Incredibles angle and it didn't work. What people want from Flash isn't that.Wally is the most fun against bigger threats, not crying over his kids. Also, and I think the most important point here, is that Jon Kent had solid creators pushing for him. These twins WILL NEVER have Tomasi, Jimenez and Gleason promoting them. Nobody is that committed at DC to make that concept work right now. It's just a poor excuse to sideline Wally.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rend20 View Post
    So put him in a team book, let him make appearances in other books where it makes sense, and allow him to play a part in an event every blue moon. Just let him be Wally and don't treat him like crap.
    Nah nah nah. Team book exclusitivity is baaad. It means you are fodder for the next event. Either a) give him a part in Barry's book or b) give HIM a book or it doesn't work. I also think there is an audience for Nightwing & Flash team up book but keeping Wally married with kids chains him away from global adventures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    You can't market GLs. One of the biggest problems with the GL Franchise is there's been no room for anyone to shine except maybe one or two at a time. And that was when they had two ongoing comics, which isn't a guarantee going forward.
    But you can keep GLs seperate from each other AND market them: see DC Superhero Girls for Jess. It's DC's fault to create tons of them but those who are distinct can stay their ground. Kyle doesn't because he's boring.

    Wally's mainstream appeal is nothing, because Wally's mainstream appeal is equally absconded by Barry. There isn't really a situation where they'd want to use Wally instead of Barry outside of his time as Kid Flash (which, going forward, I imagine Wallace will take every bit of screen time for). Having kids in comics affects nothing in the mainstream. You can adapt a character with kids to other media without adapting the kids. Wally can't bring in new readers because the only inlet of new readers is the dang movies and tv shows -- all Barry centric. Comics are incredibly niche, but because of that they can tell stories that aren't as generic as the stuff that gets adapted elsewhere
    This is flat out not true. No matter how old Barry is presented, Wally is presented as hippier and younger because Barry is the corny & asocial guy.TV show had an interesting approach first but dropped the ball later due to actor's demands and fandom's distaste regarding to that specific version.

    The only thing whiney fans did in comics was get him to come back at all, and even then that's because a fan had power (Johns) more than anything else.
    Yeah and if Johns didn't want to, your whining wouldn't have mattered squat.

    Like seriously, you're saying it's impossible to write a comic with Wally having kids and it not be about Wally. That is demonstrably false. Kids can be supporting characters. Fantastic Four has been doing it for decades. Superman and Batman are running around with kids right now. You hate the kids, I get that, but these absurd lies about how the kids mean all these grandiose things that can not be overcome is so preposterous. Was Barry unable to be Flash because they introduced a Kid Flash? They're freaking sidekicks. Wally's even had a sidekick before. The Flash has balanced half a dozen speedsters in the same comic before. Sure, it's a different relationship -- but isn't that a good thing?
    Demostrable? Don't be ridiculous. Superman and Batman received children under the pens of great writers & artists. They had great stories that justified them. And well, see, how that turned out? Jon got aged up, sent to future and Batman rarely comes into the same panel with Damian. If they bring kids in and have Wally stay away from them like Bats and Supes, by no means go ahead, I would be thrilled. But that has never been the case now, has it?

    If the ONLY value Wally has is to repeat the same kind of storytelling from the 90s/early 00s then, frankly, he's no different from Barry. DC has already expressed that the reason they don't care to use Wally is because they find him too similar to Barry. Taking away one of the unique avenues that he has that Barry doesn't even touch -- personal growth and the passage of time along with it, which has naturally led to him forming a family -- is kind of just saying that you might as well use Barry.
    You can't give Barry young-adult problems, especially in comics because Barry is not that. Barry is also completely tied to Iris, why does Wally have to do that? Yeah sue me, I don't see Linda as an important asset to series. She's nice and all but she's very generic and that role can be given to anyone else. Young Justice version of Artemis is one example.
    Last edited by Waterfall; 12-21-2019 at 08:00 AM.

  15. #3495
    Mighty Member Waterfall's Avatar
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    Part 2
    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Well, it's not getting unhealthy for me, because, you know, funny books.

    That said, first of all, never say "never". Barry is the Flash again after all.

    But more importantly, let me ask (honestly, no snark): Would you like a DCU where Wally is mandated out of all books? Or one where he simply doesn't exist? Would you like one where the only version we have is Wallace, the most inexperienced hero and a 12 year old? Would you like a universe where a pacemaker was inserted into his past, negating all of his career and assuring he can't really run? Or, better yet, a PTSD-ridden Wally West, tied to the Suicide Squad and moping about killing his friends?

    Because all of those were, I'm sure as hell, ideas that DC wouldn't have mind to play long term. The one reason they didn't fly is because fan backlash.
    I don't run on "hope given by DC". I, and anyone who's looking, know pretty well where they stand. I run on calling out bullshit.
    Bohemia, you are a great guy, probably one of the few commentators who put out something worth to read, please don't take my words personally as you can emphatize what I'm trying to say here.
    And see, that's where we are going wrong I think. We think DC backtracks due to our demand but that's not the case at all. If they had understood us, they wouldn't make stupid mistakes one after another. He only came because because Geoff Johns needed a solid and sincere hook for Rebirth. If you ask me, it's more possible that Suicide Squad was squashed down because of Batman: Damned controversy rather than fan backlash.
    It's been a decade. It's clear what they want and care. It's not going to change until Didio leaves.

    That's only partially true. The calls for the kids return are somewhat recent; back when they were introduced, they weren't all that popular. That said, there are ways to bring the kids back and not saddle Wally with them (Depower them, make them exist only in the future, whatever). They don't have to be a big deal, and the only reason DC pretends that they do is so they can sideline him further
    They are still not popular. And well, you said it; DC is using kids to sideline Wally. No more no less.

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Can barry become kid flash and have a mentor? Can he transition from kid flash to the flash? No, he can't. As for bisexuality, sure why not? go for it. If people are that superficial that they only care about surface level representation and tokenism and If it helps the character, go for it. Better yet, have wally get a tan or something.Then, he can be a brown-redhead-bisexual-exsidekick-current flash.
    They can create a bond between Jay and Barry to steal that gimmick, it's not as hard as you believe. Max can pop up anywhere to train Barry. Also according to Williamson, Barry fights to live up to his legacy so there is that struggle too. What keeps Wally stand out? nothing.

    That being said, I would be all for Wally exploring his sexuality. We don't have a speedster on LGBTQ+ side, a shame if you ask me.

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