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  1. #1801
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    DC likes Hal. DC does not like Wally. This is not comparable.
    In the 90s when Zero Hour happened, this was reversed. This is very much comparable.
    Rogue wears rouge.
    Angel knows all the angles.

  2. #1802
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    Yep. Meanwhile, people still hold plenty of **** over the heads of Hank Pym, Scott Summers, Reed Richards, and Tony Stark. Only time will tell if Wally can be saved in the eyes of the readers like Hal was, or permanently ruined for a lot of people like those others (Even if...#CyclopsWasRight). Personally, all I'm worried about is the damage that's been done right now. The fact that it can technically be fixed doesn't make the situation any less irritating. Yeah Wally will bounce back eventually....maybe...but this is still an unnecessary stain on his character that will follow him for a LONG time.
    Absolutely.
    Rogue wears rouge.
    Angel knows all the angles.

  3. #1803
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    If that is the case then he can never be a hero again, because if the Speed Force makes you explode everytime you are mentally unstable, an also is the cause of making you go mentally unstable, then that's a pretty fucking bad negative feedback loop.

    Just waiting for Barry to explode and kill hundreds of innocents next time he has another one of his self pity trips. Actually I guess Barry didn't really love Wally that much because Wally died and Barry didn't explode and kill everyone near him.

  4. #1804
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    Yeah am I missing something here in regards to the whole Superbomb thing? Plenty of Flashes have been put in situations FAR more stressful than finding out you're not the only hero who's suffering (Seriously? That was his trigger?). And yet this is the one time it results in the speed force manifesting itself in the form of a deadly explosion? Has this always been a thing or did King just randomly give the speed force yet another new power? Because from the way Wally was talking, it sounded like this happened before.

  5. #1805
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    Yeah am I missing something here in regards to the whole Superbomb thing? Plenty of Flashes have been put in situations FAR more stressful than finding out you're not the only hero who's suffering (Seriously? That was his trigger?). And yet this is the one time it results in the speed force manifesting itself in the form of a deadly explosion? Has this always been a thing or did King just randomly give the speed force yet another new power? Because from the way Wally was talking, it sounded like this happened before.
    It's never been a thing.

  6. #1806
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    Yeah am I missing something here in regards to the whole Superbomb thing? Plenty of Flashes have been put in situations FAR more stressful than finding out you're not the only hero who's suffering (Seriously? That was his trigger?). And yet this is the one time it results in the speed force manifesting itself in the form of a deadly explosion? Has this always been a thing or did King just randomly give the speed force yet another new power? Because from the way Wally was talking, it sounded like this happened before.
    It has never been a thing. The closest it ever was to a thing was during Bart's sordid Flash run where absorbing "all" the Speed Force hurt him. But the Speed Force has always been fundamentally protective of those around you. That's the main thing it accounts for as a super power.

    It's also nonsensical because...there are literally children and infants who have Speed Force powers. Bart Allen has Speed Force powers. If you threatened to harm someone in proximity the second you couldn't control yourself then Bart would've killed the entire human race like 3 seconds into his debut.

  7. #1807
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Agreed. My thought on that is that there was more to the situation than just that Wally had a mental breakdown. The other enabling factor might be that Wally is “badly out of tune” with the Metaverse, essentially being a refugee from an iteration that no longer exists. That, combined with being connected to the Speed Force, could be used to justify the Boom; and conversely, could be used to ensure it never happens again: reattune Wally to the Metaverse — or the Metaverse to Wally (by bringing his family back into continuity with him, similar to what Superman Reborn did for Superman) — and the danger of a psychotic-triggered boom goes away.
    Rogue wears rouge.
    Angel knows all the angles.

  8. #1808
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    Agreed. My thought on that is that there was more to the situation than just that Wally had a mental breakdown. The other enabling factor might be that Wally is “badly out of tune” with the Metaverse, essentially being a refugee from an iteration that no longer exists. That, combined with being connected to the Speed Force, could be used to justify the Boom — and conversely, could be used to ensure it never happens again: reattune Wally to the Metaverse — or the Metaverse to Wally (by bringing his family back into continuity with him, similar to what Superman Reborn did for Superman) — and the danger of a psychotic-triggered boom goes away.
    There isn't. This was the story. The story wasn't even necessarily supposed to be about Wally. King wrote the premise out and Didio told him to stick Wally into the killer's spot in the story. It has nothing to do with someone controlling or being controlled or being undermined by a foreign power because it could've been anyone. Didio just decided it should be Wally and that is why we are here. King said as much in his interview after #8.

  9. #1809
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    There isn't. This was the story. The story wasn't even necessarily supposed to be about Wally. King wrote the premise out and Didio told him to stick Wally into the killer's spot in the story. It has nothing to do with someone controlling or being controlled or being undermined by a foreign power because it could've been anyone. Didio just decided it should be Wally and that is why we are here. King said as much in his interview after #8.
    Yeah; and “the story” for Hal Jordan was that he had a psychotic break because Coast City was destroyed and the Guardians refused to let him mope; so he went to Oa, slaughtered the entire GLC on the way, killed all of the Guardians, and then set about rebooting the universe.

    That was the original story. It got retconned by GL:Rebirth to “Hal did terrible things because a space insect possessed him”.

    I'm not talking here about what King's or Didio's intent was. I'm talking about what can be done to fix this mess.
    Rogue wears rouge.
    Angel knows all the angles.

  10. #1810
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    Yeah; and “the story” for Hal Jordan was that he had a psychotic break because Coast City was destroyed and the Guardians refused to let him mope; so he went to Oa, slaughtered the entire GLC on the way, killed all of the Guardians, and then set about rebooting the universe.

    That was the original story. It got retconned by GL:Rebirth to “Hal did terrible things because a space insect possessed him”.

    I'm not talking here about what King's or Didio's intent was. I'm talking about what can be done to fix this mess.
    Yet Even if Hal's actions were retcon doesn't truly clear Hal of his overall past.

  11. #1811
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    Ok so I found some good news after HiC: In Lighter News- Jimmy Olsen got married in Leviathan Rising to a Multiversal Thief in what can only be described as DC’s The Hangover in gorilla city. He’s also confirmed to have Prior Relationships with a Kobra Kultist and Talia Al Ghul.

    This Gives us something to talk in Lighter Hearts about
    Pull List:
    DC: Batman, Nightwing, Red Hood: Outlaw, Detective Comics, Superman, Action Comics, Young Justice, Legion of Superheroes, John Constantine: Hellblazer, Batman Beyond, Dark Nights: Death Metal
    MARVEL: Fantastic Four, Daredevil, The Immortal Hulk, Venom, Web of Venom, Dawn of X
    BOOM STUDIOS: Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Willow, Angel and Spike
    DARK HORSE: Bill and Ted are doomed.
    IMAGE: The Walking Dead: Deluxe

  12. #1812
    (Formerly ilash) Ilan Preskovsky's Avatar
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    Guys, please. This is superhero comics. If you think this whole thing can't be retconned away with the snap of a finger, you haven't been reading comics for very long. Whether Didio allows this to happen in the near future is a whole other question (though Bleeding Cool reports rumblings of a new Wally book of some sort) but if there is a willingness to do so, the entirety of HiC can be unwritten with a throwaway line of dialogue ("that wasn't Wally") or even some timey wimey nonsense. Heroes in Crisis is further proof that Didio hates Wally West but has it really ruined Wally beyond repair? Not even a little bit. If Ralph and Sue Dibny can return from the events of a massive megaseller like Identity Crisis, Wally West can certainly survive what has ultimately been a series that has made almost no impact on anything outside of its pages, has had reasonably weak sales for an event book and has even had its own writer distance himself from the series by repeating over and over again that the choice of characters was not his.

    Was Heroes in Crisis by far the worst thing that Tom King has ever written? Yup. Is it a wasted opportunity? Certainly. An objectively bad comic? Probably. Is Didio's Wally hatred exasperating? Most certainly. Does it instantly negate the quality of other titles that DC puts out? Nope. Has it put an end to Wally West as a character? Not even close. Am I asking too many rhetorical questions? What do you think?
    Check out my blog, Because Everyone Else Has One, for my regularly updated movie reviews.

  13. #1813
    (Formerly ilash) Ilan Preskovsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denirac View Post
    Ok so I found some good news after HiC: In Lighter News- Jimmy Olsen got married in Leviathan Rising to a Multiversal Thief in what can only be described as DC’s The Hangover in gorilla city. He’s also confirmed to have Prior Relationships with a Kobra Kultist and Talia Al Ghul.

    This Gives us something to talk in Lighter Hearts about
    Now that's what I'm talking about! Have I mentioned recently how much I've enjoyed what Bendis has brought to DC?!
    Check out my blog, Because Everyone Else Has One, for my regularly updated movie reviews.

  14. #1814
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan Preskovsky View Post
    Guys, please. This is superhero comics. If you think this whole thing can't be retconned away with the snap of a finger, you haven't been reading comics for very long. Whether Didio allows this to happen in the near future is a whole other question (though Bleeding Cool reports rumblings of a new Wally book of some sort) but if there is a willingness to do so, the entirety of HiC can be unwritten with a throwaway line of dialogue ("that wasn't Wally") or even some timey wimey nonsense. Heroes in Crisis is further proof that Didio hates Wally West but has it really ruined Wally beyond repair? Not even a little bit. If Ralph and Sue Dibny can return from the events of a massive megaseller like Identity Crisis, Wally West can certainly survive what has ultimately been a series that has made almost no impact on anything outside of its pages, has had reasonably weak sales for an event book and has even had its own writer distance himself from the series by repeating over and over again that the choice of characters was not his.

    Was Heroes in Crisis by far the worst thing that Tom King has ever written? Yup. Is it a wasted opportunity? Certainly. An objectively bad comic? Probably. Is Didio's Wally hatred exasperating? Most certainly. Does it instantly negate the quality of other titles that DC puts out? Nope. Has it put an end to Wally West as a character? Not even close. Am I asking too many rhetorical questions? What do you think?
    Nah, Heroes in Crisis sort of remind us of Didio's overall hatred of the Teen Titans and its legacy.

  15. #1815
    Helping the Helpless Denirac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan Preskovsky View Post
    Now that's what I'm talking about! Have I mentioned recently how much I've enjoyed what Bendis has brought to DC?!
    Jimmy’s Hangover was actually Matt Fraction. He’s relaubching Superman’s Pal Jimmy Olsen in July
    Pull List:
    DC: Batman, Nightwing, Red Hood: Outlaw, Detective Comics, Superman, Action Comics, Young Justice, Legion of Superheroes, John Constantine: Hellblazer, Batman Beyond, Dark Nights: Death Metal
    MARVEL: Fantastic Four, Daredevil, The Immortal Hulk, Venom, Web of Venom, Dawn of X
    BOOM STUDIOS: Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Willow, Angel and Spike
    DARK HORSE: Bill and Ted are doomed.
    IMAGE: The Walking Dead: Deluxe

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