Wally West: The Flash Appreciation 2019

[Frontier]

DC Editorial had it out for Wally enough that I don't think it would have mattered how much they tried to distinguish the two, since they were likely not going to give Wally his fair shot at this point, especially when they're so comfortable just making Barry more like Wally when it suits them.

Unless he's the lead character in the ongoing "Flash" series, then he's going to be the second-rate Flash no matter what. Putting him in a nigh-identical costume, with minor differences that artists are going to frequently get wrong anyway, won't do him any favours.

I mean, the differences stand out enough to where I think it wouldn't be that hard to get it right on a consistent basis since it's colors + hair.

[BohemiaDrinker]

The more alike two characters are, the less reason to actively use both of them.

That's a thing for the creators of the mess to solve, not fans. No fan has any obligation to go "okay, I take this bullshit as long as Wally is around".

Unless he's the lead character in the ongoing "Flash" series, then he's going to be the second-rate Flash no matter what.

He sure as hell will be, in a silver bootless uniform.

Putting him in a nigh-identical costume, with minor differences that artists are going to frequently get wrong anyway, won't do him any favours.

You said that about the uniform, not me.

[phantom1592]

Yet.

And that's my point here.

If they need to give Wally an unique look, Said look should be designed beginning with the principle of "how to make an awesome Flash look that's distinctively Wally" and not a "let's distinguish him from Barry". It may sound the same, but it isn't.

Sure, change the design, but the centered lightining insignia, the big yellow boots and crimson-gold color scheme are a must if he is not to be looked at as "second-rate Flash". Honestly, IO wouldn't mind a closed cowl as well.

Disagree about the boots. Yellow boots are overrated. There have been three Live-action Flashes and not a single yellow boot amongst them.

I take that back... there were 4 counting the failed JLA pilot... and he did have them, but in a lot of people's eyes... the character is still Flash if he's wearing red boots.


Personally I want Wally to get his own identity. His whole thing was about honoring Barry and preserving the memory... and regardless of what the fans or editorial or marketing or respect... or whatever meta-reason there may be to cling to the 90's suit.... IN-CHARCTER, Wally would have turned the identity back to Barry gladly and with a party attached.

I wish people didn't get hung up on the 'yellow = kid' mentality... because his classic Kid Flash costume is one of my top three favorite costumes of all time. I guess that's why I like the Rebirth costume. The open cowl really feels more like Wally than the closed one ever did.

[Thor-Ul]

Thats an amazing cover. The art and colors are just so nice. The variant covers have been awesome for most of this series.



I agree to a certain degree. There are certain things that are fundamental characteristics to the Flashs look. Lightning motif, some sort of red color. These definitely need to stay in some degree to be a Flash.

But there is also room to put a unique spin on these and other things without discarding the essential Flash look.

I think giving Wally his own distinct look is important now that Barry is back. It was ok when.Wally was the only Flash around. (Frankly even.then I liked that they gave Wally his own spin on.the suit, chrome red, white eyes, ect, to give him his own look despite Barry being gone and him.being the only Flash around) but now that Barry is back and Wally is viewed by some as unnecessary giving him his own look is important. To make him his own person so.hell.have own place rather than an imitation which is extra.

I think there is a fine balance to keeping him recognizably as the Flash as well as giving him his own look.

Making his red darker or chrome and changing the gold to its counterpart silver I think is the right balance. It's not like.they gave him a Cape, turned his suit green and changed his emblem.to a storm cloud.

I agree with WallyWestFlash here.

Yet.

And that's my point here. I would liked a closed cowl yet.

If they need to give Wally an unique look, Said look should be designed beginning with the principle of "how to make an awesome Flash look that's distinctively Wally" and not a "let's distinguish him from Barry". It may sound the same, but it isn't.

Sure, change the design, but the centered lightining insignia, the big yellow boots and crimson-gold color scheme are a must if he is not to be looked at as "second-rate Flash". Honestly, IO wouldn't mind a closed cowl as well.

But that is exactly the same uniform as Barry. Even the Lanterns have their differents uniforms to represent their own identities.

[BohemiaDrinker]

But that is exactly the same uniform as Barry. Even the Lanterns have their differents uniforms to represent their own identities.

There are lots of ways to keep what matters and whip out a different suit.

Disagree about the boots. Yellow boots are overrated. There have been three Live-action Flashes and not a single yellow boot amongst them.

I take that back... there were 4 counting the failed JLA pilot... and he did have them, but in a lot of people's eyes... the character is still Flash if he's wearing red boots.

Yeah, but that vanishes as soon as he is besides someone wearing the classic suit. That's my point: the suit must signify a Flash, an equal Flash. Current suit is watered down and sidekicky, Flash Rebirth suit was designed to be "not as cool" (EVS own words) and so on.

[Thor-Ul]

Yes, but I wouldn't call the yellow boot as something than matters that much.

[Lee]

I mean, the differences stand out enough to where I think it wouldn't be that hard to get it right on a consistent basis since it's colors + hair.

I was responding to BohemiaDrinker's proposal that Wally's suit should have a red/yellow colour scheme, yellow boots, covered hair etc.

I think people tend to forget that Barry and Wally originally had identical costumes. They gave Wally his yellow open-haired costume because the previous one was confusing (and visually repetitive) and said as much in the comic itself. It's not a new idea that it's better for Barry and Wally to wear different costumes that are instantly distinguishable.

That's a thing for the creators of the mess to solve, not fans. No fan has any obligation to go "okay, I take this bullshit as long as Wally is around".

They solve that problem by distinguishing the two characters, or by reducing Wally's presence. In the long-term, DC doesn't need or desire two near-identical characters.

Personally I want Wally to get his own identity. His whole thing was about honoring Barry and preserving the memory... and regardless of what the fans or editorial or marketing or respect... or whatever meta-reason there may be to cling to the 90's suit.... IN-CHARCTER, Wally would have turned the identity back to Barry gladly and with a party attached.

I agree. The in-universe reason for Wally taking on the Flash identity no longer exists. Outside of that, it's better for Wally to exist as his own unique character, rather than a secondary version of another character.

It's the same with the Avery Ho Flash, since the Justice League of China isn't being used anymore. She's currently in the Flash comic, alongside Flash and Kid Flash. In all the dialogue, Flash refers to one of his young partners as "Kid Flash" and the other as "Avery". It's super awkward that he calls one by their super-hero name and the other by their civilian name, even in the presence of the Rogues. Ultimately there's no advantage to her being called Flash unless becomes the star of the book.

That's my point: the suit must signify a Flash, an equal Flash.

If Barry Allen is the star of "THE FLASH" comic book, TV series and movie, and a mainstay member of the Justice League in all media, then how can Wally ever be an equal Flash?

[Rend20]

IN-CHARCTER, Wally would have turned the identity back to Barry gladly and with a party attached.

And Barry would never allow him to do such a thing.

I don't think there is any advantage to Wally changing his hero name. It's a lateral move at best that diminishes his run as The Flash and history that are still relevant to the character. At worst, it allows his character to fall even further into irrelevance because The Flash name is no longer associated with the character.

[BohemiaDrinker]

If Barry Allen is the star of "THE FLASH" comic book, TV series and movie, and a mainstay member of the Justice League in all media, then how can Wally ever be an equal Flash?

In universe (and that's all I care about) he only needs to be written properly, have his history preserved and a suit that doesn't suck. I don't care if Barry stars in the Flash. I care that when they stand side by side, Wally doesn't look like an out of place kid, in an oversized Kid-Flash uniform and trying to find his place or some bullshit.

[phantom1592]

And Barry would never allow him to do such a thing.

I don't agree. The problem with 'legacy' characters is that they are and always will be in someone else's shadow. Barry would have never wanted Wally to pick up the 'flash mantle' He wasn't asked... he was dead. That was all Wally's idea. Barry would have wanted Wally to be his OWN hero with his OWN identity. If Wally came up and handed him the ring, saying "welcome back Barry. You're the flash... I'm going to be something different!" I can't imagine Barry denying him that.

As for Colors... I remember an alternate universe that showed A Wally dressed in black and yellow and that costume was SHARP. I liked that one... and there was the clone Flash in the 90's show that was a Blue and silver version... and I absolutely LOVED that look.... I really do think that Wally and Barry should have at LEAST as different costumes as Barry and Jay have.

I don't think there is any advantage to Wally changing his hero name. It's a lateral move at best that diminishes his run as The Flash and history that are still relevant to the character. At worst, it allows his character to fall even further into irrelevance because The Flash name is no longer associated with the character.

The Advantage is simple... They won't get confused. This is a major flaw of the 'legacy' concept... You can't have multiples of the same characer running around at once. The general public would be confused. His wife was a reporter... Barry's wife is a reporter... Does anyone seriously think they're going on the air talking about how Flash saved a bus of children... the Flash in the silver and with the open hair.. who used to be regular flash till the other flash came back... That's just awkward as it comes. It was a big nitpick with Miles Morales. Nobody in their right mind would want to share the name Spider-man… not in the 616 where he's regularly accused of being a menace and a murderer... or have his enemies come crawling out of the woodwork swearing revenge on something two other Spider-men may have done...

Clinging to a name like that is strictly meta and trademark and copyright issues... it makes zero sense in-universe. Wally pushed the limits there when he was 'honoring his uncle'... but with him back there's no reason to cling stubbornly to that. Having a 'Robin/Nightwing' moment would NOT be bad for him.

As for falling further into obscurity?? CAN HE?? DC has already shown they don't need him. Having two 'flashes' side by side is a quicker way to get him dismissed and ignored than coming up with his own 'nightwing-esque' name and costume ever would.

[Lee]

In universe (and that's all I care about) he only needs to be written properly, have his history preserved and a suit that doesn't suck. I don't care if Barry stars in the Flash. I care that when they stand side by side, Wally doesn't look like an out of place kid, in an oversized Kid-Flash uniform and trying to find his place or some bullshit.

Dick Grayson can be written properly, have his history preserved and have a cool suit without being Batman. Bart Allen can be written properly, have his history preserved and have a cool suit without being Flash. I think the same is true of Wally.

If all you care about is how Wally is treated in-universe, then this shouldn't be an issue. The other heroes wouldn't treat Wally as a lesser hero for changing his name, or for wearing different colours.

[Rend20]

That was all Wally's idea.

And Barry would honor that choice and not want him to give the name up on account of him. When Barry came "back" in RoBA, Wally openly shot down the idea he would take on a different name.

Having two 'flashes' side by side is a quicker way to get him dismissed and ignored than coming up with his own 'nightwing-esque' name and costume ever would.

All Wally has is his past with this editorial regime.

His usage and treatment would be no better with a different hero name. He's still always going to be in Barry's shadow no matter what they call him. All changing his name accomplishes is making Barry more special and dumping on moments like this from Wally's original run.

The Flash name makes him relevant to some degree. Making him the Flash version of Tempest or Arsenal would be a step down in my opinion.

[BohemiaDrinker]

IN-CHARCTER, Wally would have turned the identity back to Barry gladly and with a party attached. .

Okay, you're objectively wrong here. And there are a bunch of comics, all written by the guys who defined Wally (and Barry, to a degree) scatered across 2 and a half decades to show it. Return of Barry Allen, Chain Lightining, Blitz, Final Crisis and hell, even Blackest Night.

I don't agree. The problem with 'legacy' characters is that they are and always will be in someone else's shadow. Barry would have never wanted Wally to pick up the 'flash mantle' He wasn't asked... he was dead. That was all Wally's idea. Barry would have wanted Wally to be his OWN hero with his OWN identity. If Wally came up and handed him the ring, saying "welcome back Barry. You're the flash... I'm going to be something different!" I can't imagine Barry denying him that.

Wait, you don't want Wally to be a legacy hero? Sorry, but the Flash has been defined as dinasty from the Silver age on.

First, the idea that Barry wouldn't want for Wally to be the Flash is laughable. As stated above, this has been dealt with multiple times. Furthermore, Barry literally based his heroic identity in Jay. We see him reading the Golden Age Flash comic before we even see his face. This aspect is as ingrained in the franchise as superspeed,

I really do think that Wally and Barry should have at LEAST as different costumes as Barry and Jay have.

I'm not opposed to that. But Wally's look should not be designed to be the lesser one, as it has been since Barry's return.

The Advantage is simple... They won't get confused. This is a major flaw of the 'legacy' concept... You can't have multiples of the same characer running around at once. The general public would be confused. His wife was a reporter... Barry's wife is a reporter... Does anyone seriously think they're going on the air talking about how Flash saved a bus of children... the Flash in the silver and with the open hair.. who used to be regular flash till the other flash came back... That's just awkward as it comes. It was a big nitpick with Miles Morales. Nobody in their right mind would want to share the name Spider-man… not in the 616 where he's regularly accused of being a menace and a murderer... or have his enemies come crawling out of the woodwork swearing revenge on something two other Spider-men may have done...

Look, you don't like the legacy aspect, that's fine. But Wally may not be the character for you if that's the case. He's the definitive legacy character. That's what the last ten to 12 years of backlash have been about.

Clinging to a name like that is strictly meta and trademark and copyright issues... it makes zero sense in-universe. Wally pushed the limits there when he was 'honoring his uncle'... but with him back there's no reason to cling stubbornly to that. Having a 'Robin/Nightwing' moment would NOT be bad for him.

Yes it would. It would ruin the character further. It would be admittance that Barry has a bigger claim to the Flash mantle than Wally. Which he doesn't.

I think people tend to forget that Barry and Wally originally had identical costumes. They gave Wally his yellow open-haired costume because the previous one was confusing (and visually repetitive) and said as much in the comic itself. It's not a new idea that it's better for Barry and Wally to wear different costumes that are instantly distinguishable.

No one is forgetting that. That suit is great. It's probably one of the best super-suits ever created. And exactly because it was so good and effective, and was created at a time when the whole sidekick dynamic was starting to develop, and because it influenced said dynamic for thirty years before Wally changed it for the Flash costume, and inspired lots and lots of other suits for other characters that were in the same age-range or importance level in universe, the tropes in it now come loaded with status implications. Super hero costumes are designed for you to "get" the character at first glance. What Wally wears now says "Kid Flash". It shouldn't. It's as simple as that,

[BohemiaDrinker]

Dick Grayson can be written properly, have his history preserved and have a cool suit without being Batman. Bart Allen can be written properly, have his history preserved and have a cool suit without being Flash. I think the same is true of Wally.

Dick is Dick, Bart is Bart, Wally is Wally. There are a bunch of things that each of these characters could and/or would do that is not true for the other two.

If all you care about is how Wally is treated in-universe, then this shouldn't be an issue. The other heroes wouldn't treat Wally as a lesser hero for changing his name, or for wearing different colours.

Yes, they would. No one treats Captain Marvel Jr. as Shazam. Not to mention the non heroes. Looking the part is important here.

[manwhohaseverything]

Pardon me, but what is wrong with the current costume? Whatever the case maybe i would like a wally costume with the hair exposed. It's just something i like,aesthetically.