Wally West: The Flash Appreciation 2019

[deadman322]

People remember Wally. The Titans respect him, Superman respects him. The pacemaker was a tempest in a teacup, a bit of adversity for him to overcome, a total non-issue now. Wally created his new suit, he likes it, Bart thinks it’s cool, nobody else has commented on it.

no superman respected him, then superman reborn happened and he joined in with the justice league, to just treating wally and the titans like misbehaving little kids that need to be grounded.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Part 2

Bohemia, you are a great guy, probably one of the few commentators who put out something worth to read, please don't take my words personally as you can emphatize what I'm trying to say here.
And see, that's where we are going wrong I think. We think DC backtracks due to our demand but that's not the case at all. If they had understood us, they wouldn't make stupid mistakes one after another. He only came because because Geoff Johns needed a solid and sincere hook for Rebirth. If you ask me, it's more possible that Suicide Squad was squashed down because of Batman: Damned controversy rather than fan backlash.
It's been a decade. It's clear what they want and care. It's not going to change until Didio leaves.

You're not disagreeing with me as much as you think you are.

No, DC is in no rush to give the fandom a version akin to one they'd like. If it was up to them, they'd already buried the character (as they did). And the reason that that did not last forever was fan backlash. (Yes, Johns needes an amotional hook for Rebirth. The only reason said hook was Wally, though, is because his fans didn't leave).

What DC wants from Wally fans is for us to shut up and go away. And they'll try forever. Since they failed so far, what they'll give us is the bare minimum they can so we stay relatively quiet. Which is why it's all the more important for the discussion to be guided by theme of "Oh, no, this shit will not stand!" when we think that shit that should not stand is being done. The last 10 years have been that, the last 3 particularly so. It's up to us, who care enough to discuss and ask creators and etc, to say that the "no past", the PTSD, the murders, the pacemakers and the "new identity" bullshit will not fly. At this point, is less about getting what we want than it is about avoiding what we don't ant at all. So yeah, in my book, anything less than Wally being a proper Flash is BS, and should be called as such.

[BohemiaDrinker]

People remember Wally. .

As the Kid Flash who disappeared fighting Kadabra. Fuck that!

Superman respects him.

That ship sailed pretty quickly.

The pacemaker was a tempest in a teacup, a bit of adversity for him to overcome, a total non-issue now

.

It's a non-issue now because of backlash. Otherwise, you would haver got your "Nightwing" treatment right there.

Wally created his new suit,

No, Brett Booth created the suit, following a mandate of making Wally look "Kid Flashy". He's said so himself.

[Rend20]

Either a) give him a part in Barry's book or b) give HIM a book or it doesn't work.

But both of those things are unrealistic in my opinion.

This regime isn't going to give Wally his own on-going (especially with the recent sales of the main book) and/or allow him to take away from Barry in Barry's book. So the only other "option" is getting rid of his character completely which I don't want to see happen.

So doing what I suggest (putting him in a team book and keeping the character relatively intact) at least allows his fans to have some new stories and hope things will change if/when there is another editorial turnover. It's not ideal long-term, but it's unfortunately the best we can get for the foreseeable future.

[Dred]

But you can keep GLs seperate from each other AND market them: see DC Superhero Girls for Jess. It's DC's fault to create tons of them but those who are distinct can stay their ground. Kyle doesn't because he's boring.


This is flat out not true. No matter how old Barry is presented, Wally is presented as hippier and younger because Barry is the corny & asocial guy.TV show had an interesting approach first but dropped the ball later due to actor's demands and fandom's distaste regarding to that specific version.


Yeah and if Johns didn't want to, your whining wouldn't have mattered squat.


Demostrable? Don't be ridiculous. Superman and Batman received children under the pens of great writers & artists. They had great stories that justified them. And well, see, how that turned out? Jon got aged up, sent to future and Batman rarely comes into the same panel with Damian. If they bring kids in and have Wally stay away from them like Bats and Supes, by no means go ahead, I would be thrilled. But that has never been the case now, has it?



You can't give Barry young-adult problems, especially in comics because Barry is not that. Barry is also completely tied to Iris, why does Wally have to do that? Yeah sue me, I don't see Linda as an important asset to series. She's nice and all but she's very generic and that role can be given to anyone else. Young Justice version of Artemis is one example.

Yeah, 2 whole GLs. Hal and Jess. On the Flash side of things we'll get Barry and Kid Flash, which is going to be Wallace in the long run.

Wally is not "hipper younger" and hasn't be depicted that way since Barry came back. He never will be. The TV version you're talking about is going to be tied more to Wallace, as Kid Flash. Any young adult stuff is going to be through that teen lens, not through Wally. That's the thing you seem to be missing out on. Wally has no extra media place anymore. He'll never show up as The Flash because Barry is The Flash outside of gimmicks. If they need a Kid Flash they'll use the black version for obvious reasons. We were lucky to even get the underused YJ version at all because Wallace wasn't around yet.

All I'm gonna say is you accusing people of being whiney and pointless about it is incredibly rich.

Yes, demonstrable. I gave you examples. If you think it is literally impossible for a writer to create a good story about a superhero family then I don't believe you because you can't be that delusional. You are saying things out of spite and hatred of the kids because they, gasp, doomed you to a dozen or so bad comics after their debut. If you were this impatient with Wally he would've died at Baron. Heroes can have sidekicks, pretty easily. Wally can have sidekicks. The kids can be sidekicks until they're ready to be something more. It's a pretty big non issue in and of itself. The actual big issue is there's absolutely no room for them. There's basically no room for Wally with Barry and Wallace around already, so Wally's supporting cast (including the ones you laud so much and hate the kids for ruining/usurping, mind you) obviously has no room.

lol at "You can't give Barry young-adult problems." Yes you can. Barry's been in a bunch of on again off again romances in recent memory like Wally was in his whirlwind years. Seriously, Barry is as tied to Iris as Wally is to Linda. Hell, Wally is MORE tied to Linda because Wally never had Linda die and replace her with another love interest right after. Also "I don't see Linda as an important asset to the series." I get it, you wish every Flash comic was a toss up Mediocre to Good WML comic but that'd be boring as crap and you would've robbed us of the very best of not just Wally, but the entire Flash franchise. Like, seriously, Linda isn't an important part of Wally? Look, Moons, that's just straight absurd. Downright trolling. There is no more fundamental character to Wally's time as The Flash than Linda.

[manwhohaseverything]

They can create a bond between Jay and Barry to steal that gimmick, it's not as hard as you believe. Max can pop up anywhere to train Barry. Also according to Williamson, Barry fights to live up to his legacy so there is that struggle too. What keeps Wally stand out? nothing.

That being said, I would be all for Wally exploring his sexuality. We don't have a speedster on LGBTQ+ side, a shame if you ask me.

Other than the name barry hasn't had a thing from jay or max. Heck! Bart and wally still have a better relationship with jay. Have training period =/= being subordinate to someone and then taking over. Barry has never taken orders. He can't do that as the flash and he was created as the flash. He can't fail as a sidekick. He is just a hero. Sidekicks are much more flexible. They can fail, they can job, they can surpass and they can take over. There is a big difference. Two issues showing barry being trained or reading a jay garrick comic doesn't hold up to the years of Wally west as the kid flash and the flash.it's like conner and jon/jimmy. Jimmy and jon were superman's actual sidekicks. Conner never was.
I wouldn't care he does turn out bi or something, Anything that can help dc management to stop screwing wally west. But, where i draw the line is him not really being in love with linda. Linda was wally's anchor. Their relationship was awesome.

[married guy]

Something I STILL can't wrap my head around.
Why wouldn't DC want to publish a Wally monthly?
Flash currently ships twice a month. Give Wally the existing slot, and ship both once a month.
You would still sell the same if not more issues, plus you're growing the franchise.
They can remain separate of one another until something big enough warrants a crossover.

Barry has been front & centre now for a decade. Let's open things up a bit. Throw some stuff at the wall and see what sticks.
A Flash title focusing on Barry's adventures and a second title Speed Force taking a look at every other speedster in the DCU (with Wally front & centre).

We've had a GL and a GLC book side by side for years, there's no reason the Flash family isn't worth the same treatment.

[skyvolt2000]

Something I STILL can't wrap my head around.
Why wouldn't DC want to publish a Wally monthly?
Flash currently ships twice a month. Give Wally the existing slot, and ship both once a month.
You would still sell the same if not more issues, plus you're growing the franchise.
They can remain separate of one another until something big enough warrants a crossover.

Barry has been front & centre now for a decade. Let's open things up a bit. Throw some stuff at the wall and see what sticks.
A Flash title focusing on Barry's adventures and a second title Speed Force taking a look at every other speedster in the DCU (with Wally front & centre).

We've had a GL and a GLC book side by side for years, there's no reason the Flash family isn't worth the same treatment.

Where is that GLC book now?? A book that actually sold until the Rebirth run.

They are not going to do that because they don't want COMPETITION. That is all it boils down to.

From a business standpoint it makes sense since Wally, Barry & Bart have boasted long runs. Yet as we have seen in comics it comes down to PETS. Even if it is at the expense of sales.

[Lee]

No, Brett Booth created the suit, following a mandate of making Wally look "Kid Flashy". He's said so himself.

You spent all this time saying you only cared about Wally being an equal to Barry in-universe. In-universe Wally created the suit, Bart thinks it’s cool and nobody is giving him grief about it.

[BohemiaDrinker]

You spent all this time saying you only cared about Wally being an equal to Barry in-universe. In-universe Wally created the suit, Bart thinks it’s cool and nobody is giving him grief about it.

I also said looking the part was important. That line by Bart was written before that uniform was even designed, so it holds no water.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Something I STILL can't wrap my head around.
Why wouldn't DC want to publish a Wally monthly?
Flash currently ships twice a month. Give Wally the existing slot, and ship both once a month.
You would still sell the same if not more issues, plus you're growing the franchise.
They can remain separate of one another until something big enough warrants a crossover.

Barry has been front & centre now for a decade. Let's open things up a bit. Throw some stuff at the wall and see what sticks.
A Flash title focusing on Barry's adventures and a second title Speed Force taking a look at every other speedster in the DCU (with Wally front & centre).

Because the Flash has consistent numbers.

It sells pretty much on the same range for a long time now, be it Barry, Wally or Bart. DC really, really wants for Barry to be THE Flash. Now, if they actually commit long term to a Wally book, and it happens to sell a tad bit more than Barry's, or even if it sells the same but it's better received, keeping Barry as top dog becomes hard to justify.

We've had a GL and a GLC book side by side for years, there's no reason the Flash family isn't worth the same treatment.

Yeah, but among comic readers Hal Jordan was massively more popular than everyone else at the Corps. Plus he had Johns at his peak behind him; there was no way that the anyone on GLC could become larger than Jordan, so that was ok. Wally and Barry, there's no guarantee, and it's a risk they don't want to take.

[Lee]

I also said looking the part was important. That line by Bart was written before that uniform was even designed, so it holds no water.

Wally had been wearing his new suit for two years (real time) by the time Bart returned.

This isn’t an “in-universe” objection. The other DC Comics characters aren’t looking down on him because of his choice in costume.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Wally had been wearing his new suit for two years (real time) by the time Bart returned.

You're right, I got your comment confused with something else.

This isn’t an “in-universe” objection. The other DC Comics characters aren’t looking down on him because of his choice in costume.

Yes, it is. The other heroes are looking down on him, and the costume he "created" in universe is a Kid Flash costume, after being told to do so by Barry.

The costume is designed to send a message, and the status he is occupying is, as well.

Now, you may disagree with me all you want. Everyone's opinion is their own and the fact that your view on things lines up with what is more convenient for Didio & Co. is just what it is.

But please stop prodding my posts and others comments trying to find inconsistencies in order to "prove us wrong" or "biased" or whatever. First, everyone here, including myself, is wearing their biases on their sleeve. Second, it's kind of an annoying discussion technique for those who see trough it, that leads pretty much nowhere. Third, I happen to know my shit, and can go on on this functionally forever.

[manwhohaseverything]

All the titans are treated like lesser guys? How is that a wally problem? I see it as a titans problem.

[BohemiaDrinker]

All the titans are treated like lesser guys? How is that a wally problem? I see it as a titans problem.

It is a Titans, problem, yes. We're discussing Wally specifically because this is his thread, and because he is the worst case among them. It's kind of a case of "the higher you go, from higher you fall".