Wally West: The Flash Appreciation 2019

[Dred]

Sure, why not ?

Maybe...but then again that's kind of the central conceit of Big Two Superhero books where it's such a large and generally close-knit community where you have to just buy that one hero can take of their problems on their own without needing help from the various other heroes or super-powered family members in their vicinity.

One of the things I loved about Waid's run is that when genuinely, world affecting, catastrophic shit happened in The Flash...he brought in the JL, and made them look good and do their job, despite Wally being the one who would save the day.

Nowadays the JL would just show up to tell Wally he's a shitty amateur who can't handle things on his own like Barry. The same people who praised him for the opposite for years. It's all so shitty.

And by the by, the "This is what they toss around in the editor's room" comment wasn't some guess. Brian Cunningham, Flash editor for awhile, specifically said DC has absolutely no interest in ever making a Wally series for the exact reasons we're talking about: It just seems like they'd be making two of the same book and diluting the main book by taking things away from Barry to give to Wally (despite the inverse being something they love to do). If your pitch can't get over that hurdle, then it'd never happen. On top of that, your pitch of just "A second Flash book that's just like a normal Flash book," if it DID happen, DC would rather it just be a second Barry book. Barry is more popular. If you were going to make a second book why not focus on the more popular, higher selling character? Not only that, you don't even have to split your villain/supporting cast catalog!

[Frontier]

One of the things I loved about Waid's run is that when genuinely, world affecting, catastrophic shit happened in The Flash...he brought in the JL, and made them look good and do their job, despite Wally being the one who would save the day.

Which is why I said the Flashes would probably come together during world-ending or event-level situations.

And by the by, the "This is what they toss around in the editor's room" comment wasn't some guess. Brian Cunningham, Flash editor for awhile, specifically said DC has absolutely no interest in ever making a Wally series for the exact reasons we're talking about: It just seems like they'd be making two of the same book and diluting the main book by taking things away from Barry to give to Wally (despite the inverse being something they love to do). If your pitch can't get over that hurdle, then it'd never happen. On top of that, your pitch of just "A second Flash book that's just like a normal Flash book," if it DID happen, DC would rather it just be a second Barry book. Barry is more popular. If you were going to make a second book why not focus on the more popular, higher selling character? Not only that, you don't even have to split your villain/supporting cast catalog!

I kind of get what they're saying even though I think a Flash spinoff with Wally would make enough money to justify it's existence and I don't think it would hurt to at least try and expand on a successful title like The Flash.

But that's just me.

[Dred]

Which is why I said the Flashes would probably come together during world-ending or event-level situations.

I kind of get what they're saying even though I think a Flash spinoff with Wally would make enough money to justify it's existence and I don't think it would hurt to at least try and expand on a successful title like The Flash.

But that's just me.

I mean there's an inherent duplicitous nature to this entire line of thinking because Wally was more popular than Barry when they brought Barry back, stripped everything from Wally, and then kicked Wally out for years to destroy his fanbase and dedicate their all to building Barry's. It's fundamentally hypocritical and pathetic. But that's just how they see it. They've created a situation where they can make a plausible excuse to keep fucking Wally, and you get this negative feedback loop.

[Denirac]

One of the things I loved about Waid's run is that when genuinely, world affecting, catastrophic shit happened in The Flash...he brought in the JL, and made them look good and do their job, despite Wally being the one who would save the day.

Nowadays the JL would just show up to tell Wally he's a shitty amateur who can't handle things on his own like Barry. The same people who praised him for the opposite for years. It's all so shitty.

And by the by, the "This is what they toss around in the editor's room" comment wasn't some guess. Brian Cunningham, Flash editor for awhile, specifically said DC has absolutely no interest in ever making a Wally series for the exact reasons we're talking about: It just seems like they'd be making two of the same book and diluting the main book by taking things away from Barry to give to Wally (despite the inverse being something they love to do). If your pitch can't get over that hurdle, then it'd never happen. On top of that, your pitch of just "A second Flash book that's just like a normal Flash book," if it DID happen, DC would rather it just be a second Barry book. Barry is more popular. If you were going to make a second book why not focus on the more popular, higher selling character? Not only that, you don't even have to split your villain/supporting cast catalog!

I'm gonna state my Piece, Barry is NOT "More Popular" than Wally, He hasnt been since right after his Death. Barry's Popularity is practically Manufactured by DC refusing to acknowledge any Non-Barry Flash since his return. Despite him never earning the feats or fighting Wally's Villains, He's just been given everything Wally had and Wally was discarded alongside his fans for this brave new DiDio Comics Era. Thats all BS about Not Selling, They're scared Wally would come back with an Ongoing and it'd outsell Golden Boy Barry Allen

[Drako]

This poll appeared on my timeline earlier this month.
Only a small sample size, but i have yet to find a pool that Barry wins in popularity.

https://twitter.com/redfblued/status...13333679280129

Also, why the dude is arguing against Wally in his own appreciation thread?

[Drako]

Double post.

[Dred]

I'm gonna state my Piece, Barry is NOT "More Popular" than Wally, He hasnt been since right after his Death. Barry's Popularity is practically Manufactured by DC refusing to acknowledge any Non-Barry Flash since his return. Despite him never earning the feats or fighting Wally's Villains, He's just been given everything Wally had and Wally was discarded alongside his fans for this brave new DiDio Comics Era. Thats all BS about Not Selling, They're scared Wally would come back with an Ongoing and it'd outsell Golden Boy Barry Allen

Barry is significantly more popular than Wally. If only because of the TV show. Even in the comics he's more popular because, yes, DC has driven away Wally's fanbase and done everything they can to build Barry's (you don't get multiple Batman crossovers if they're not trying to keep you relevant).

There is no way a Wally ongoing would outsell The Flash title with Barry at the helm. First because Barry is more popular, and second because The Flash title has namebrand momentum that'll always have shops buying a certain number of it.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Barry is significantly more popular than Wally. If only because of the TV show. Even in the comics he's more popular because, yes, DC has driven away Wally's fanbase and done everything they can to build Barry's (you don't get multiple Batman crossovers if they're not trying to keep you relevant).

There is no way a Wally ongoing would outsell The Flash title with Barry at the helm. First because Barry is more popular, and second because The Flash title has name brand momentum that'll always have shops buying a certain number of it.

I don't agree with the bolded section.

Yes, DC has done everything you said. But I don't think they succeded.

[Dred]

I don't agree with the bolded section.

Yes, DC has done everything you said. But I don't think they succeded.

I do. If Wally had a bunch of diehard fans equal to Barry then Titans would've matched Flash sales. At least at the outset before it started spinning its wheels.

There aren't 40-50k people willing to buy a Wally comic out there. At least not that many with their ears to the ground in case it pops up.

[BohemiaDrinker]

I do. If Wally had a bunch of diehard fans equal to Barry then Titans would've matched Flash sales. At least at the outset before it started spinning its wheels.

I agree.



And I looked other months: Titans Plateaued at about 50k. Granted, Flash was still selling better, but not by a huge margin, not to mention that contrary to Titans the book was actually good back then.

[Dred]

I agree.



And I looked other months: Titans Plateaued at about 50k. Granted, Flash was still selling better, but not by a huge margin, not to mention that contrary to Titans the book was actually good back then.

The very next issue Titans drops 20k below. This was in spite of the direct Manhattan plot hook that would've gotten readers interested, and then readily disinterested with Titans never even pretending to go into that(amusingly, Batman and The Flash did which annoys the shit out of me to this day). Despite having Nightwing and Arsenal and such also on the book for interest, they were consistently 10-20k behind Flash.

If DCUniverse Rebirth's bombshell of a return and Titans being the only book he was in wasn't good enough, then I don't think Wally will sell the same as Barry without years of doing with Wally what DC has been doing with Barry -- fucking Barry over constantly and promoting Wally. That will never happen and so Wally will never, ever come close to sniffing Barry or his own prior popularity again. Barry's return and DC's favoritism has killed his support and they will not be interested in reviving it again. Even if the current regime is gone, any new regime will be instilled with external media compatibility in mind. Barry's got the momentum and he will keep it. Wally's continuance as a character is as a supporting character to Barry, at best. Exactly what he was in the silver age, which is what they prefer.

[Kon93]

The very next issue Titans drops 20k below. This was in spite of the direct Manhattan plot hook that would've gotten readers interested, and then readily disinterested with Titans never even pretending to go into that(amusingly, Batman and The Flash did which annoys the shit out of me to this day). Despite having Nightwing and Arsenal and such also on the book for interest, they were consistently 10-20k behind Flash.

If DCUniverse Rebirth's bombshell of a return and Titans being the only book he was in wasn't good enough, then I don't think Wally will sell the same as Barry without years of doing with Wally what DC has been doing with Barry -- fucking Barry over constantly and promoting Wally. That will never happen and so Wally will never, ever come close to sniffing Barry or his own prior popularity again. Barry's return and DC's favoritism has killed his support and they will not be interested in reviving it again. Even if the current regime is gone, any new regime will be instilled with external media compatibility in mind. Barry's got the momentum and he will keep it. Wally's continuance as a character is as a supporting character to Barry, at best. Exactly what he was in the silver age, which is what they prefer.

You know your a pretty depressing guy, thanks.

I'll buy anything with wally in it, who's with me?

[Denirac]

You know your a pretty depressing guy, thanks.

I'll buy anything with wally in it, who's with me?

Damn right, Its why I put myself through Heroes in Crisis no matter how much it pains me

[Eto]

Hopefully he’ll have a solo ongoing soon. I doubt it will happen, since DC doesn’t seem to care about legacy characters these days.
Let's wait and see what’ll happen post-HiC.

[Dred]

You know your a pretty depressing guy, thanks.

I'll buy anything with wally in it, who's with me?

I tend to buy things with Wally in it, too. Sadly, there are not 50,000 of us.

I'm depressing because I've been a Wally fan since the mid 90s and anything to deal with the character nowadays that isn't pie in the sky dreaming is depressing. Everytime something even mildly good happens it is immediately and terribly squashed back into depressing. I've just seen the pattern repeat for 15 years at this point and I don't do myself any favors getting my hopes up like I used to.

I would like nothing more than to be proven wrong, and for good things to happen to Wally both in universe and through the publication. But what I would like is not what has happened or will happen.