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  1. #166

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    Ignite was really cute and super fun. I loved the relationship that Dinah had with her parents. I also really enjoyed seeing her quirky and Kind of clumsy. We know Dinah as this disciplined, ass-kicking character, so it was nice to see her beginning to grow into that.

  2. #167
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    I thought Ignite was an OK and well-crafted read: a perfectly good intro to the character. However, compared to some of the earlier Ink installments (especially Catwoman's Under the Moon) it felt light. I thought it lacked real drama, and the sense of place wasn't as strong as in the earlier books.

    It's not a bad story by any means, but all of the other Ink stories I've read has done most story things as good as Ignite, and at least one major thing much better.

    spoilers:
    Perhaps the most critical lack is that Dinah is in one situation at the start of the story, and basically in exactly the same situation by the end of it, only with added canary cry. It ends with a return to the old interpersonal status quo, except for the headmistress, who is quietly removed from the scene.
    end of spoilers

    ETA: Appears Ignite was intended under the Zoom imprint rather than the Ink one, which explains why it couldn't dig into stuff like DC did with Raven or Catwoman. But I think my main above criticism still stands.
    Last edited by kjn; 10-31-2019 at 12:58 PM.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  3. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I thought Ignite was an OK and well-crafted read: a perfectly good intro to the character. However, compared to some of the earlier Ink installments (especially Catwoman's Under the Moon) it felt light. I thought it lacked real drama, and the sense of place wasn't as strong as in the earlier books.

    It's not a bad story by any means, but all of the other Ink stories I've read has done most story things as good as Ignite, and at least one major thing much better.

    spoilers:
    Perhaps the most critical lack is that Dinah is in one situation at the start of the story, and basically in exactly the same situation by the end of it, only with added canary cry. It ends with a return to the old interpersonal status quo, except for the headmistress, who is quietly removed from the scene.
    end of spoilers

    ETA: Appears Ignite was intended under the Zoom imprint rather than the Ink one, which explains why it couldn't dig into stuff like DC did with Raven or Catwoman. But I think my main above criticism still stands.
    I haven't read either the Raven or Catwoman stories you are referring to, but in regards to Ignite, I felt it was a simple, but well crafted story. I definitely felt like the story was juvenile in a charming way and that is probably because I am not the target demographic for the story. I do agree the execution could have been a bit more nuanced and not quite as predictable, but at no point did I feel like things were dumbed down because it's for younger readers. Rather, I felt it was age appropriate.

    All in all, it was nice to get a look at young Dinah and her dynamic with family and friends. I, particulalry enjoyed the rather comedic introduction of Ted Grant, who we all know played a huge part in Dinah's life. I think seeing where Dinah came from was important to the character as she is currently a fairly well known character but new readers or new fans might not have known her origins or her connections to other characters and her surroundings.

  4. #169
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    I think scratching this itch will go a bit into narrative theory. Note that I'm not looking into stuff like nuance or predictability here—what I'm about is even more basic than that.

    There is that old quip that there are only three stories: boy becomes man (the bildungsroman), boy meets girl, journey from A to B. Now, one can find exceptions and curliques, but at the core of all these is that the main character is in one situation in the beginning of the story and another at the end of the story. To accomplish that they need to overcome various external or internal challenges (or conflicts).

    spoilers:
    Now, there are challenges in Ignite: the headmistress, Dinah's emerging canary cry, the band drama due to the demands on Dinah's schedule. But all of them are overcome without any real change or development for Dinah. She is exactly the same person in question of priorities and values and social relations in the end as she was in the beginning. She has some more accomplishments, but attaining them didn't really entail conflict or change on Dinah's part.
    end of spoilers

    Now, I believe the ages of 9–13 are right when kids develop their story sensibilities (also why kids that age often are voracious readers). I'm sure Ignite will be well-received. But I don't think that the book will find Black Canary new fans due to the above reasons.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  5. #170
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    I'd like to see Greg Rucka on a Black Canary book.

  6. #171
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Heh. You have an entirely different view of their dynamic than I have. My read of Ollie is that of an all-theory leftist who has talked and read a lot, but spent very little time on the barricades or in the picket lines. Dinah, on the other hand, I read as the working-class woman who has very little time for organising and even less for theory, but would be on the front lines of Cable Street.
    I think that's a fair reading of modern day post-52 Ollie. But looking at the earlier, post-Crisis Ollie I think Tzigone has the right of it. I'd say from at least Hard Traveling Heroes, if not beforehand, Ollie was pretty involved and grassroots with his politics.

    Largely agree about Dinah. Not sure if I'd call her "working class" but yeah, I don't see her organizing rallies or spending a ton of time reading socio-political theory but I do see her as someone who cares about social issues and would spend a free hour at a protest or drop an extra $5 in a donation box.
    Last edited by Ascended; 11-15-2019 at 07:29 AM.
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  7. #172

  8. #173

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    I hope Dinah doesn't start being depicted with all sorts of piercings in her face. I am not a fan of that look at all.

  9. #174
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    When was the first time Dinah met Babs and how much age difference do they have?

  10. #175
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Unanswerable at present. Babs recently got a significant age up, as in New 52 she was 21, but now she's in her "late twenties". Needless to say, that means anything before Batgirl (2016) #25 (when the Burnside status quo was abandoned) can't be trusted. And we don't know how old Dinah is. If we did in New 52, we don't now, as she may have also been aged up, but not everyone has, so we don't know for sure.
    Last edited by Digifiend; 12-03-2019 at 05:33 AM.
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  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyotheseasons View Post
    I hope Dinah doesn't start being depicted with all sorts of piercings in her face. I am not a fan of that look at all.
    I wouldn't worry about that. It's a fan art.

  12. #177

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I wouldn't worry about that. It's a fan art.
    Well, the movie version of Dinah has a very noticable nose piercing. And seeing as how Harley Quinn and the BoP will now also be a comic, who knows what inspiration they may want to take fro mthe movie.

  13. #178
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    When was the first time Dinah met Babs and how much age difference do they have?
    Not current continuity, but they met for the first time (in person, as Dinah was already working with Oracle, but did not know her identity) in Birds of Prey #21, with a cover date of September 2000. I do not know if they had any other "first meetings" before that.


    Unanswerable at present. Babs recently got a significant age up, as in New 52 she was 21, but now she's in her "late twenties". Needless to say, that means anything before Batgirl (2016) #25 (when the Burnside status quo was abandoned) can't be trusted. And we don't know how old Dinah is. If we did in New 52, we don't now, as she may have also been aged up, but not everyone has, so we don't know for sure.
    I'm thrilled about the age-up, as I hated the de-aging. But it is frustrating how we don't know what counts and what doesn't, as far as history goes.

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    When was the first time Dinah met Babs and how much age difference do they have?
    In Post Crisis Dinah was iirc 18 or 19 when the JL was founded, and Barbara would have probaly been 14-16 at the time.

    Btw. Post Crisis their first team up was iirc in Batgirl Year One.

  15. #180
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Btw. Post Crisis their first team up was iirc in Batgirl Year One.
    I hated that story. Didn't even remember BC being there - I think I've blocked it. I liked so much of what Dixon did with the Bats (definitely not with Connor), but I did not like that story a bit (I deeply dislike the post-COIE making BG younger and younger and hated Batman knowing her identity while she didn't know his and the resulting power dynamic and her being an idiot with the line and being put in a protege position to Batman instead of peer, etc.). Mind you, I didn't like the de-aging of Dinah in the 1980s, either.

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