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  1. #61
    Astonishing Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Yeah, "biker chick" is still pretty gods damn common. Anyone who thinks differently has apparently never gone to Bike Week.
    I am not saying "biker chick" (or whatever is a more appropriate term) doesn't exist anymore, I said that the cultural context of what that look means has changed from when it was first introduced.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    I am not saying "biker chick" (or whatever is a more appropriate term) doesn't exist anymore, I said that the cultural context of what that look means has changed from when it was first introduced.
    Could I ask you to expand on how you think the perception of the look has changed in terms of cultural context from the character's inception to now?

  3. #63
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Anyone else appreciate this era? I recently re-read this, and think it holds up pretty well. The ongoing that followed fell off the rails pretty quickly, but Sarah Byam & Co. were off to a good start...



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  4. #64
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    Anyone else appreciate this era? I recently re-read this, and think it holds up pretty well. The ongoing that followed fell off the rails pretty quickly, but Sarah Byam & Co. were off to a good start...



    I'd honestly never even known about this mini, to be honest...might have to track it down.

  5. #65
    Astonishing Member OBrianTallent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    Anyone else appreciate this era? I recently re-read this, and think it holds up pretty well. The ongoing that followed fell off the rails pretty quickly, but Sarah Byam & Co. were off to a good start...



    I loved that mini series and yes, the "ongoing" that followed went sideways real quick. The art on this one with Von Eeden and Giordano was excellent as well.

  6. #66
    Astonishing Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyotheseasons View Post
    Could I ask you to expand on how you think the perception of the look has changed in terms of cultural context from the character's inception to now?
    Without doing a deep-dive into her origins, based solely on my impressions and personal understanding of cultural iconography, I would say that Black Canary, when first introduced was created using the imagery of "bad girls" or delinquents and rebels who had been lead astray with the sex and drugs, etc that came with greater freedoms of the time. It was the prototype for bikers, the way James Dean was but you wouldn't think of James Dean as joining the Sons of Anarchy. Biker culture in the present is a more specific culture that Black Canary doesn't really fit at this point. (imo at least) I'm not saying it's impossible to make her more of a modern biker chick and still try to have her feel like the same character, but as a creative decision, the filmmakers might have just wanted a modern iteration of the original type in terms of essence rather than take the literal modern iteration of the biker culture that came from it.

  7. #67
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    Without doing a deep-dive into her origins, based solely on my impressions and personal understanding of cultural iconography, I would say that Black Canary, when first introduced was created using the imagery of "bad girls" or delinquents and rebels who had been lead astray with the sex and drugs, etc that came with greater freedoms of the time. It was the prototype for bikers, the way James Dean was but you wouldn't think of James Dean as joining the Sons of Anarchy. Biker culture in the present is a more specific culture that Black Canary doesn't really fit at this point. (imo at least) I'm not saying it's impossible to make her more of a modern biker chick and still try to have her feel like the same character, but as a creative decision, the filmmakers might have just wanted a modern iteration of the original type in terms of essence rather than take the literal modern iteration of the biker culture that came from it.
    If the goal was to stick with Dinah's "bad girl/off the street" origin, I think they still failed. Nothing about that outfit says "bad girl" to me on any level. In fact, most of that outfit seems to be "higher end/quality/overpriced fashion" than "bad girl."

    Of course, the "leather, fishnets, and spikes" fashion has grown well beyond bikers; it's now the default for metal and rock musicians (real rock, not that emotionally hollow sh*t they try to pass off as rock these days) and that's about as fitting for Dinah as it gets.

    Dinah looks like some sort of pop music hipster in these photos. I dont care what cultural shifts have come and gone since the 40's, that doesn't fit Canary.

    But again, these are just photos without context. I'm not going to say the film is way off the mark since we haven't seen the movie yet, but I'm not filled with hope here either.
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  8. #68
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I'd honestly never even known about this mini, to be honest...might have to track it down.
    You should! I come across copies in bargain bins somewhat regularly.

    Quote Originally Posted by OBrianTallent View Post
    I loved that mini series and yes, the "ongoing" that followed went sideways real quick. The art on this one with Von Eeden and Giordano was excellent as well.
    Von Eeden was never a favorite growing up, but in recent years I've come to appreciate him. And Giordano's name on anything speaks to its quality.
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  9. #69
    Astonishing Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Of course, the "leather, fishnets, and spikes" fashion has grown well beyond bikers; it's now the default for metal and rock musicians (real rock, not that emotionally hollow sh*t they try to pass off as rock these days) and that's about as fitting for Dinah as it gets.
    I did appreciate how they brought her look back in that book where they made her a rock/punk musician where the outfit made sense. And now, even though that book is over and she's more of a super-hero again, the look remains.

  10. #70
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Yeah, Dinah just isnt Dinah if she's in a costume. She's a badass bitch who'll kick your ass if you scratch her Harley (the bike, not the psychopath with the hammer).

    I appreciate the hell out of it for two reasons; first, I like seeing "my" people represented as something other than nameless thugs to get punched. Bikes, leather jackets, grease stains....that was childhood man! And we're not all criminals. Hell, the nicest, best people I know almost all ride. And secondly, I feel like Dinah walks the line between the "super" world and the "normal" one. According to Max Lord, there's thousands of metahumans on earth....but only a few dozen who wear spandex and get into fights. What about the rest of them? You never see stories about "Glenn; the telepath who works at Target!" or anything, but Dinah kinda has a foot in both worlds; "super" enough to hang with the League and kick crime's ass, but "normal" enough to not have a cape or be totally disconnected from the real world. I think that's a really interesting place for her and it provides a pretty unique perspective.
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  11. #71
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    I did appreciate how they brought her look back in that book where they made her a rock/punk musician where the outfit made sense. And now, even though that book is over and she's more of a super-hero again, the look remains.
    I really wish they'd go back to Gary Frank's original BoP design, or at least a take on it.

    That DCYou/rock star series almost soured me on the fishnets, even though I'd always loved the look prior to that...
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  12. #72
    Astonishing Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stromberg View Post
    I totally agree. I do NOT get why they thought it was a good idea to cast the black girl to play this role simply because the character's name is "Black" Canary. It seems WAAAY reductive to me and a tad bit offensive/racist.
    It's possible they're playing off the success of "Black Panther" or that they're trying to distance their BC from the various blonde caucasions who've played her on tv. (they even took away the new BC's canary cry on "Arrow" - possibly to avoid more confusion?) Ironically, maybe they didn't want people accusing the studio of whitewashing a character called "Black Canary"? (it happened with some who assumed Green Lantern was black because they only knew the cartoon) I'd like to think they just cast the best person, but that's not the world in which we live in...

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stromberg View Post
    I totally agree. I do NOT get why they thought it was a good idea to cast the black girl to play this role simply because the character's name is "Black" Canary. It seems WAAAY reductive to me and a tad bit offensive/racist.
    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    It's possible they're playing off the success of "Black Panther" or that they're trying to distance their BC from the various blonde caucasions who've played her on tv. (they even took away the new BC's canary cry on "Arrow" - possibly to avoid more confusion?) Ironically, maybe they didn't want people accusing the studio of whitewashing a character called "Black Canary"? (it happened with some who assumed Green Lantern was black because they only knew the cartoon) I'd like to think they just cast the best person, but that's not the world in which we live in...
    Or maybe she got the role because she was the best choice out of all the actresses who auditioned for it.

  14. #74
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Or maybe she got the role because she was the best choice out of all the actresses who auditioned for it.
    My doubts about this movie have less to do with the acting ability of anyone involved and more just the interpretations and the feel they seem to be going for with this, which I find a little concerning.

  15. #75
    Mighty Member Thirteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    If the goal was to stick with Dinah's "bad girl/off the street" origin, I think they still failed. .
    WHEN did Dinah get a “bad girl/off the street” origin?

    While the mother/daughter legacy hero comes and goes in her origin depending on continuity, I only recall the police family background element of her backstory.






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