Emma Frost: White Queen Appreciation 2019

[ExodusCloak]

Scott and Maddie was totally swept under the rug, Scott and Jean were for more than a decade, Scott and Emma were going to be swept the moment he dated any other gilr even if it was not Jean.
Marvel is not DC

You don't understand what swept under the rug means. Scott and Maddie has to this day not been swept under the rug because of the way their marriage ended. His affair with Emma kind of helped people to talk about other things.

[KangMiRae]

Scott and Maddie was totally swept under the rug, Scott and Jean were for more than a decade, Scott and Emma were going to be swept the moment he dated any other girl even if it was not Jean.
Marvel is not DC

I have a hard time believing that. Scott/Emma was a huge part of Morrison's run which everyone, even Marvel, refers to as a seminal moment. It's permanent.

[phoenixzero23]

And conversely the affair is something that will still be brought up no matter how much they chat on panel about it.

Do you know that means that many people would see scemma like only an adulterous relationship?
What you say is true for jott but for scemma too.

[Ulfhammer]

Dude. Scott and Jean's relationship starts literally minutes after him watch his brother sacrifice himself to save him, this is the most screwed up possible way- yes, even more than Scott and Emma. And yes, of course, Grant Morrison is just like the National Enquirer...

That's not a relationship, it was just a kiss.

Ok I'm willing at accept my point about Morrison was an overreach. I still stick with the characterization of "steamy trash" as it applies to certain aspects of the book but it wasn't fair to characterize his whole run, or even most of it that way. You got me.

And of course DPS couldn't be done if they were "just friends" ( DPS without Scott being with Jean- well, there was X3 and we saw how turned out).

I'd debate this all day long, but the Emma thread isn't the place. Make a thread then we'll meet with pistols at midnight.

Nor most F4 stories. Nor most of Whedon's run (Torn particularly). Or The Night Gwen Stacy died. Not to mention many stories in which the relationships add an important element.

I give you a partial list of insignificant stories where who was shagging who wasn't critical to the plot...

Days of Future Past
God Loves, Man Kills
Mutant Massacre
Fall of the Mutants (Maddie's stuff excepted)
Days of Future Present
X-Tinction Agenda
Muir Island Saga
X-Cutioner Song
Fatal Attractions
Phalanx Covenant
Legion Quest
Onslaught
Children of the Atom
Operation: Zero Tolerance
The Twelve (Maybe a case could be made here but I don't think so)
Dream's End
Eve of Destruction
Assault on Weapon Plus
Gifted (Mostly)
House of M
Decimation
Unstoppable
Deadly Genesis
Endangered Species
Messiah Complex
Divided We Stand
Manifest Destiny
X-Infernus
Messiah War
Utopia
Nation X
Necrosha
Second Coming
Curse of the Mutants
The Five Lights
Schism
Regenesis
Necrosha
AvX
Battle of the Atom
Apocalypse Wars
IvX
Pheonix Ressurection
Hunt for Wolverine
Dissasembled

So not a lot that mattered I guess.

[phoenixzero23]

I have a hard time believing that. Scott/Emma was a huge part of Morrison's run which everyone, even Marvel, refers to as a seminal moment. It's permanent.

And the Dark Phoenix saga is the greatest X-men story of all time, that didn't mean Scott and Jean weren't swept under the rug.

[Omega Alpha]

You don't understand what swept under the rug means. Scott and Maddie has to this day not been swept under the rug because of the way their marriage ended. His affair with Emma kind of helped people to talk about other things.

Also, Maddie was built from day one as a Jean replacement, was not a X-man, and (seemingly) had no powers, and literally no past before meeting Scott. Emma already had a following before the relationship, although her popularity skyrocketed after it and appearing in Morrison/Whedon's run, and is now one of the most popular characters in the franchise.

[ExodusCloak]

Do you know that means that many people would see scemma like only an adulterous relationship?
What you say is true for jott but for scemma too.

Yes some would. However I don't think people really give a shit about it being adulterous or not. Not many do if some do. But some people will also see it as deliciously sordid fun and cheer when at times they finally do something functional.

Conversely Scott cheating on Jean will up brought up weekly every time he doesn't live up to expectations

[phoenixzero23]

Yes. But some people will also see it as deliciously sordid fun and cheer when at times they finally do something functional

That is true for any couple.

[KangMiRae]

And the Dark Phoenix saga is the greatest X-men story of all time, that didn't mean Scott and Jean weren't swept under the rug.

There's a lot of real world context behind the DPS. Claremont was forced to rewrite the story a few times, he had very different permanent outcomes for that story, but like I said the Big 2 are cyclical, so they refuse to lock things down.

Do you know that means that many people would see scemma like only an adulterous relationship?
What you say is true for jott but for scemma too.

That's just fun storytelling! It totally did start off from something nasty, but if you stuck around it grew into something, subjectively, beautiful! As a reader, I like a little drama, a little heartache, etc., don't you?! I wanna feel different things as I read. I remember freaking hating Emma so hard, but now I like both ships!

[ExodusCloak]

That is true for any couple.

No it isn't. It was never the case with Jott. Because Jott is not dysfunctional. Or at least writers never tried to make it dysfunctional intentionally

[Omega Alpha]

That's not a relationship, it was just a kiss.

Ok I'm willing at accept my point about Morrison was an overreach. I still stick with the characterization of "steamy trash" as it applies to certain aspects of the book but it wasn't fair to characterize his whole run, or even most of it that way. You got me.



I'd debate this all day long, but the Emma thread isn't the place. Make a thread then we'll meet with pistols at midnight.



I give you a partial list of insignificant stories where who was shagging who wasn't critical to the plot...

Days of Future Past
God Loves, Man Kills
Mutant Massacre
Fall of the Mutants (Maddie's stuff excepted)
Days of Future Present
X-Tinction Agenda
Muir Island Saga
X-Cutioner Song
Fatal Attractions
Phalanx Covenant
Legion Quest
Onslaught
Children of the Atom
Operation: Zero Tolerance
The Twelve (Maybe a case could be made here but I don't think so)
Dream's End
Eve of Destruction
Assault on Weapon Plus
Gifted (Mostly)
House of M
Decimation
Unstoppable
Deadly Genesis
Endangered Species
Messiah Complex
Divided We Stand
Manifest Destiny
X-Infernus
Messiah War
Utopia
Nation X
Necrosha
Second Coming
Curse of the Mutants
The Five Lights
Schism
Regenesis
Necrosha
AvX
Battle of the Atom
Apocalypse Wars
IvX
Pheonix Ressurection
Hunt for Wolverine
Dissasembled

So not a lot that mattered I guess.

I'm not debating specifics (not only because this isn't the place, but also I don't remember details of many stories), but in many cases the fact that characters were or had a relationship was in fact important (for example, AvX, IvX, X-cutioner's Song Stryfe being or not being Scott and Jean's son is important, Colossus and Kitty being together is kind of important in Unstoppable). Plus, you're choosing almost entirely events, which by nature involve dozens of characters and in which personal relationships are often secondary to the big threat that they face, or the hero the other hero wants to punch. The smaller stories tend to focus on those.

[phoenixzero23]

That's just fun storytelling! It totally did start off from something nasty, but if you stuck around it grew into something, subjectively, beautiful! As a reader, I like a little drama, a little heartache, etc., don't you?! I wanna feel different things as I read. I remember freaking hating Emma so hard, but now I like both ships!

Maybe for some people that made it interesting, to me it only make me dislike it.

edit: I keep derailing this thread. It would be better if this took place on the rectangle thread.
I bet some Emma fans don't care or are tired of this discussion here.

[Omega Alpha]

Do you know that means that many people would see scemma like only an adulterous relationship?

If other characters dislike it, and it's not absurdly out of character for them (say, Scott dating Selene and Jean dating Sabretooth), it's good for the stories. The X-men all liking each other is bad, they are not the F4.

As for the readers, some people will always dislike it anyway. No relationship has unanimous following.

[victor borkowski]

that would have made for a better twist than what we got IMO

wow. now THAT would have been a heel turn.

[ExodusCloak]

Remember Alyssa Moy, I like her more then Susan Richards. Even the FF had to be broken up although it's much harder as they have children