Emma Frost: White Queen Appreciation 2019

[ExodusCloak]

Of course it's regression. Not a single issue the two had was addressed, not a single reason was given, just the two kissed and that's it, and we're supposed to be happy because things are "supposed to be this way" (never mind the fact Scott has spent pretty much as much time separate from her than as a couple, and almost certainly more issues single or with other people). The two were miserable, one had an affair and was going to leave anyway before she died. And relationships, romantic or not, are not there for world building alone, but to generate stories or to add to them. Scott and Jean is literally the worst couple possible in that sense because there is little room for friction and conflict, so it has to be external- either another love triangle or the Phoenix again, which has been happening since the 70's on a regular basis.

Plus stability means progression in the relationship. It also means children, the aging of the characters and then everything being undone by Mephisto because they've written themselves into a corner

[phoenixzero23]

If jott is reggression why scemma isn't?
they broke up too years ago.

[Perfection/Emma 2]

Now that Scott and Jean are miraculously back together. I swear that sonabitch better NEVER go back to Mama. Let Mama be her own character and either stay single or find love outside the X-Men. Perhaps Silver Surfer really is her soul mate, but anyways let Scemma die forever. No Ruby, No Megan, no offsprings with Cyclops. I know this much the next time Jean wants to have rough sex with Wolverine, Summers better go cry to Storm or Jubilee

[Omega Alpha]

1- they are coming back from the dead after missing and not seeing each other for long.
2-they weren't miserable, they were stable and happy for years. if it is for morrison that you say they were miserable is like saying scott and emma were miserable for bendis, they weren't, marvel just didn't want to write jott or scemma as a couple on those runs.
3- we don't know what was going to happen if Jean stayed alive, maybe they would have broke up, but she died, she came back and he kissed his former wife when she came back from the dead.
4. I would like to see them interact with little friction that would be a nice change even if temporal because as you said they have been problematic for long.

Of course they were happy for a time, but when she died, they were far from it for a long time. If a couple you know that was happy in the past but had problems for some time, including one of them having an affair and falling for another person, but, after years without seeing each other, they immediately got together again in a serious, monogamous relationship, no one would describe that as healthy.

As for 3, we do know- HCT only makes sense as a story if Scott was going to leave Jean to be with Emma, but out of grief decided to quit everything. Otherwise, it's a story of the Phoenix mind-controlling Scott into be with a woman he doesn't want to be with it (plus, in the beginning of Planet X, Scott tells Emma he made his choice, and that doesn't make much sense if he was just going to stay with Jean; she's his wife alredy)

Plus stability means progression in the relationship. It also means children, the aging of the characters and then everything being undone by Mephisto because they've written themselves into a corner

True story: this is EXACTLY the reason Gerry Conway decided to kill Gwen Stacy. Peter and Gwen were too stable, and the only logical progression was marriage and children, which he felt was inappropriate for Peter.

Apart from a brief period after the wedding (part of it when they were both outside the books regularly after OZT), since GSXM #1 those two haven't spent more than a couple of years together without a triangle or the Phoenix getting involved, sometimes both.

[Brian M.]

Yes...yes...let the hate flow.

[Ulfhammer]

Of course it's regression. Not a single issue the two had was addressed, not a single reason was given, just the two kissed and that's it, and we're supposed to be happy because things are "supposed to be this way" (never mind the fact Scott has spent pretty much as much time separate from her than as a couple, and almost certainly more issues single or with other people). The two were miserable, one had an affair and was going to leave anyway before she died.

I don't see anyone complaining about Jean snapping her fingers and making Scott do a complete 180 at the end of HCT. Where was the discussion? Where was Scott resolving his grief? If didn't happen and most everyone didn't care, cause it comics mate. Besides, I'd say there was a decided lack of panel time to have an in depth conversation, or likely the series of in depth conversations that would have had to occur. That's said I'm not sure we can really say there back together at this point. All they've done is say hello. Overreactions are happening left and right with Uncanny 22. Overractions and rampant speculation. It's fun and all but as far as concrete facts about them being back together, well there's really not much to go on.

As for them being miserable, well I don't know a single couple who hasn't gone through seriously trying times, including my wife and I. Despite what Morrison had to say, he had to bend Scott and Jean's characterization to the breaking point to pull off what he did. It sold for the same reason the National Enquirer sells, because it was steamy trash. You're overlooking the fact that for the vast majority of their ship, they were very content, given the circumstances in which they lived.

And relationships, romantic or not, are not there for world building alone, but to generate stories or to add to them. Scott and Jean is literally the worst couple possible in that sense because there is little room for friction and conflict, so it has to be external- either another love triangle or the Phoenix again, which has been happening since the 70's on a regular basis.

Name one major story line that depended on a particular character being in a relationship with another. There's the odd miniseries like R&G or the Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix that's focused on it sure, but none of the majors rely on this kind of thing. Even the DPS could have adapted to Scott and Jean just being friends easily.

Honestly, as much as I care about it, it's mostly irrelevant. The bonds of friendship or lack thereof matter far more than who's shagging who.

[Ulfhammer]

Imo, the biggest issue about Jean being back in a relationship with Scott is the strong temptation of writing Phoenix stories. We all know it's going to happen again eventually. The Phoenix is worse than Namor for Reed and Sue Richards.

Of course it's going to happen. It's a fallacy though to assume all PF stories will end in Jean's death. Hope didn't have problem. Rachel figured it out. Jean was pretty much fine prior to her death in Planet X. She'll be fine now. They won't kill her again, not anytime soon anyway if ever.

I am glad Scemma is over and hopefully that was the final point. I'd prefer Emma in a spin off to be honest, in which the writer has great liberties, something like PAD's X-Factor, over having her in a book with all the classic Claremont XMen living together as a happy family, playing softball. Off course they could meet occasionally, and would meet in the crossover events.

Yes, Uncanny 22 did seem to put a bullet in Scemma. Based on what I'm reading in this thread, most of the posters should be celebrating Emma being free of such a terrible character...

As for her role going forward, I think thematically she still belongs with the X-Men. They need to figure out how to move forward with these characters and coexist. Emma is too strong of a character for the X-Men to lose. The franchise would be the lesser for her absence.

[KangMiRae]

Now that Scott and Jean are miraculously back together. I swear that sonabitch better NEVER go back to Mama. Let Mama be her own character and either stay single or find love outside the X-Men. Perhaps Silver Surfer really is her soul mate, but anyways let Scemma die forever. No Ruby, No Megan, no offsprings with Cyclops. I know this much the next time Jean wants to have rough sex with Wolverine, Summers better go cry to Storm or Jubilee

Yeah, I think we all know that if Emma heard word of this she'd take the first flight to Scott's bedroom herself.

[ExodusCloak]

Given that Hickmann probably didn't even read Rosenbergs ending I wonder if anyone will start off as a couple in his run.

Regardless unless there's a clear page of Cyclops offering to let Emma smash Cerebra out of his hands in her diamond form while he holds it near his genitals I can't see how they could even work together in a cordial manner.

That or Hickmann just ignores everything from this run

[OldManLogan]

I wouldn't mind the ending if it meant the triangle was 100% over and Emma was finally free to move to other developments.
What's real bad news for her is that writers will probably keep teasing a reunion just to get to this same end result again.

Yes...yes...let the hate flow.

... are you really in position to gloat? Jott shippers spent 10+ years being miserable and hijacking every thread that mentioned Emma, Cyclops or Jean in passing.
From what I saw people here are complaining about Emma, not Scemma.

[phoenixzero23]

Given that Hickmann probably didn't even read Rosenbergs ending I wonder if anyone will start off as a couple in his run.

Regardless unless there's a clear page of Cyclops offering to let Emma smash Cerebra out of his hands in her diamond form while he holds it near his genitals I can't see how they could even work together in a cordial manner.

That or Hickmann just ignores everything from this run

I believe Hickman will ignore everything and do his own stuff.

[nightw1ng]

I'm curious, why is it nostalgia and reversion when writers bring back Jott (which had its heyday like 20 years ago in the 90s), but it's not when wanting Scemma to come back (which had its peak like 10 years ago)? Scemma broke up 7 years ago and before that they were having issues. Isn't putting them back together because you long for the post-Morrison era just as regressive as putting someone who wants Jott back together because that's what they grew up with? Scott and Emma aren't the same people they were 5/10/15 years ago, and the situations that brought and kept them together no longer exist.

Scemma was always on shaky ground, because (while Emma accepted it) Jean was always the third person in the relationship. Scott thought about Jean a multitude of times while Scemma were together. And with Jean being the Phoenix, Scemma had an expiration date. Jott would eventually be a thing again. Nothing ever really changes in comics. (Even Hickman, who's planning on doing big things with the X-Men, has said he plans on putting things back on the shelf the way he found it after his run is over.) With Scott being the face of the X-Men (and Emma a former villain), Emma was always going to end up the loser when it ended. The only consolation is that the situation didn't turn out nearly as badly as it did for Maddie.

Yeah, I think we all know that if Emma heard word of this she'd take the first flight to Scott's bedroom herself.

I would hope not. I think Emma would be tired of being the consolation prize. I seriously hope her next relationship does not involve any kind of triangle.

[ExodusCloak]

Given that Hickmann probably didn't even read Rosenbergs ending I wonder if anyone will start off as a couple in his run.

Regardless unless there's a clear page of Cyclops offering to let Emma smash Cerebra out of his hands in her diamond form while he holds it near his genitals I can't see how they could even work together in a cordial manner.

That or Hickmann just ignores everything from this run

I'm curious, why is it nostalgia and reversion when writers bring back Jott (which had its heyday like 20 years ago in the 90s), but it's not when wanting Scemma to come back (which had its peak like 10 years ago)? Scemma broke up 7 years ago and before that they were having issues. Isn't putting them back together because you long for the post-Morrison era just as regressive as putting someone who wants Jott back together because that's what they grew up with? Scott and Emma aren't the same people they were 5/10/15 years ago, and the situations that brought and kept them together no longer exist.

Scemma was always on shaky ground, because (while Emma accepted it) Jean was always the third person in the relationship. Scott thought about Jean a multitude of times while Scemma were together. And with Jean being the Phoenix, Scemma had an expiration date. Jott would eventually be a thing again. Nothing ever really changes in comics. (Even Hickman, who's planning on doing big things with the X-Men, has said he plans on putting things back on the shelf the way he found it after his run is over.) With Scott being the face of the X-Men (and Emma a former villain), Emma was always going to end up the loser when it ended. The only consolation is that the situation didn't turn out nearly as badly as it did for Maddie.

The reverse applies as well. Scemma is too big to sweep under a rug. Jott now has an expiry date. Eventually they're Archie, Betty and Veronica it


In any case given Marvels disdain for stable relationships Omega Alpha is correct. Scemma was never wholesome or stable which is why it works because it means their relationship can pretty much sit there on shaky ground for 30 years. While with Jean and Scott it means settling down buying a house having kids which isn't going to happen unless the franchise dies

In terms of character though Scott is regressed.

[Omega Alpha]

I don't see anyone complaining about Jean snapping her fingers and making Scott do a complete 180 at the end of HCT. Where was the discussion? Where was Scott resolving his grief? If didn't happen and most everyone didn't care, cause it comics mate. Besides, I'd say there was a decided lack of panel time to have an in depth conversation, or likely the series of in depth conversations that would have had to occur. That's said I'm not sure we can really say there back together at this point. All they've done is say hello. Overreactions are happening left and right with Uncanny 22. Overractions and rampant speculation. It's fun and all but as far as concrete facts about them being back together, well there's really not much to go on.

As for them being miserable, well I don't know a single couple who hasn't gone through seriously trying times, including my wife and I. Despite what Morrison had to say, he had to bend Scott and Jean's characterization to the breaking point to pull off what he did. It sold for the same reason the National Enquirer sells, because it was steamy trash. You're overlooking the fact that for the vast majority of their ship, they were very content, given the circumstances in which they lived.



Name one major story line that depended on a particular character being in a relationship with another. There's the odd miniseries like R&G or the Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix that's focused on it sure, but none of the majors rely on this kind of thing. Even the DPS could have adapted to Scott and Jean just being friends easily.

Honestly, as much as I care about it, it's mostly irrelevant. The bonds of friendship or lack thereof matter far more than who's shagging who.

Dude. Scott and Jean's relationship starts literally minutes after him watch his brother sacrifice himself to save him, this is the most screwed up possible way- yes, even more than Scott and Emma. And yes, of course, Grant Morrison is just like the National Enquirer...

And of course DPS couldn't be done if they were "just friends" ( DPS without Scott being with Jean- well, there was X3 and we saw how turned out). Nor most F4 stories. Nor most of Whedon's run (Torn particularly). Or The Night Gwen Stacy died. Not to mention many stories in which the relationships add an important element.

[KangMiRae]

I would hope not. I think Emma would be tired of being the consolation prize. I seriously hope her next relationship does not involve any kind of triangle.

It's easy to expect characters we stan to move on but being in love isn't that easy, so I highly doubt this. Not to mention that despite Jott's power in continuity, popularity, marketability and history, Scemma now has power in all those variables, too. It's not going away like most random comicbook pairings so I'd expect another writer and editor to come in and bring them back.