Emma Frost: White Queen Appreciation 2019

[PsychoEFrost]

We dont know that Jean remembers any of this. It was ignored and prior to Extermination, it appeared that her memories ended when she died

It says a lot about the state of affairs when the only time that Emma and Jean can interact with both characters being written well and it isn't just two cats snarling at each other is when one of the characters won't remember that it happened.

[MechaJeanix]

We dont know that Jean remembers any of this. It was ignored and prior to Extermination, it appeared that her memories ended when she died

While this is true, we do know that the adult Jean did talk to Teen Jean at the end of the Jean Grey solo. So I'm sure she remembers everything.. or why else did she go to her after Phoenix Resurrection (I guess it was after the events of X-men Red the annual).

We also know that both Jean's remembered the Generations Phoenix issue. I wish Bunn had acknowledged their shared experience in the Jean solo. I doubt it will be referenced but that doesn't mean it didn't happen or that she doesn't remember. She should remember because she has all of teen Jean's memories.

Anyway, I love Jean and Emma together. I loved Hopeless' book and I loved his voice for both Emma and Jean. It was great. I'm glad we are going to be seeing a lot more of Emma Frost soon. I think Hickman will do great with her.

[RachelGrey]

While this is true, we do know that the adult Jean did talk to Teen Jean at the end of the Jean Grey solo. So I'm sure she remembers everything.. or why else did she go to her after Phoenix Resurrection (I guess it was after the events of X-men Red the annual).

We also know that both Jean's remembered the Generations Phoenix issue. I wish Bunn had acknowledged their shared experience in the Jean solo. I doubt it will be referenced but that doesn't mean it didn't happen or that she doesn't remember. She should remember because she has all of teen Jean's memories.

Anyway, I love Jean and Emma together. I loved Hopeless' book and I loved his voice for both Emma and Jean. It was great. I'm glad we are going to be seeing a lot more of Emma Frost soon. I think Hickman will do great with her.

Yeah, I agree, it was the Jean Grey series, and the time when Emma trained young Jeen that made me really want to see Emma and Jean on a book together ongoing. I just feel there is so much there that could be fun, it could even be a kind of wary reluctant friendship on both sides where they start enjoying working together more and more as time passes.

[ButterRum]

Oh there is. But my point is, that's not his relationship with the team. He likes heroes to be very much coded heroic so I can see where he's coming from with it. I don't agree with him. Especially with the X-Men, who to me, have never been conventional heroes, but I think it's very easy to vilify his opinion just because it doesn't align with how we view Emma.

Yeah, I think he wants O5-like X-Men, which to me are outdated and boring. I don't think it's possible for the X-Men to be superheroes like the Avengers are because the X-Men are a minority group whose existence is constantly threatened. Especially after House of M and the Purifiers, they couldn't really afford to put on the superhero theatrics and place nice. Violence was needed to defend themselves.

If he doesn't think Emma is a hero in her own right, I wonder what he thinks of Wolverine, a mass murderer who actually killed people in X-Force? It's just weird because a lot of the X-Men characters are anti-heroes, such as Rogue, Magneto, too.

[Tycon]

Jean fans like to pretend the whole Jeen solo never happened, so I don't know.

That sucks because it really laid the foundation for what should be their relationship going forward. They clearly respect each other and know each other very well, it could’ve blossomed into an actual partnership if they couldn’t be downright friends.

Oh there is. But my point is, that's not his relationship with the team. He likes heroes to be very much coded heroic so I can see where he's coming from with it. I don't agree with him. Especially with the X-Men, who to me, have never been conventional heroes, but I think it's very easy to vilify his opinion just because it doesn't align with how we view Emma.

I wonder if the blind heroism also follows the “no killing” rule because more than half the X-Men have killed when they didn’t “have” to. Unsurprisingly though, most of them were Scemma students.

We dont know that Jean remembers any of this. It was ignored and prior to Extermination, it appeared that her memories ended when she died

But we have to assume that she does until otherwise stated, right? There hasn’t been enough downtime between Jean and everyone involved in the Psych Wars for it to ever really be acknowledged. Well, at least it was closure for Emma in some sort of depressing way.

[Maestroneto]

Yeah, I think he wants O5-like X-Men, which to me are outdated and boring. I don't think it's possible for the X-Men to be superheroes like the Avengers are because the X-Men are a minority group whose existence is constantly threatened. Especially after House of M and the Purifiers, they couldn't really afford to put on the superhero theatrics and place nice. Violence was needed to defend themselves.

If he doesn't think Emma is a hero in her own right, I wonder what he thinks of Wolverine, a mass murderer who actually killed people in X-Force? It's just weird because a lot of the X-Men characters are anti-heroes, such as Rogue, Magneto, too.

Yeah, not only is he okay with Wolverine, he is very much a Wolverine Was Right guy.

[WhitePhoenix]

Jean fans like to pretend the whole Jeen solo never happened, so I don't know.

Please do not speak for me, because I as a Jean Grey fan LOVED their interaction in the Jean solo. They didn’t get along, they weren’t chums, but they got the job done with lots of great quips. As to why this was never brought up again, I have no clue. But not all Jean fans are hungry for Emma’s blood, just don’t think all their drama can be swept under the rug so fast. The way it was handled in the solo was great, it’s how they should interact - not friends but can work together if **** hits the fan.

[jmc247]

Characters like Wolverine and Rogue are considered straight up heroes not anti-heroes by editorial because they view them as inherently good.

[PsychoEFrost]

Please do not speak for me, because I as a Jean Grey fan LOVED their interaction in the Jean solo. They didn’t get along, they weren’t chums, but they got the job done with lots of great quips. As to why this was never brought up again, I have no clue. But not all Jean fans are hungry for Emma’s blood, just don’t think all their drama can be swept under the rug so fast. The way it was handled in the solo was great, it’s how they should interact - not friends but can work together if **** hits the fan.

It's an odd day when you're the voice of reason on here. But I agree with what you're saying. I should say SOME Jean fans like to pretend it didn't happen.

[PsychoEFrost]

Characters like Wolverine and Rogue are considered straight up heroes not anti-heroes by editorial because they view them as inherently good.

As usual, it is not actions that define "heroism" merely perception.

[WhitePhoenix]

It's an odd day when you're the voice of reason on here. But I agree with what you're saying. I should say SOME Jean fans like to pretend it didn't happen.

Haha, I do agree. I’m just honestly so sick of Jean Grey vs Emma Frost... They are the two most powerful psychics in the X-Books, they don’t need to be constantly pitted against one another. They both have amazing attributes and add so much to whatever book they are in. This whole thing has gone on for way too damn long, can we stop beating Butter Rum? It’s time for editorial, the books, and fans to start moving on and look forward. Scott Summers needs to let these two not be categorized as two women fighting over a man.

[PsychoEFrost]

Haha, I do agree. I’m just honestly so sick of Jean Grey vs Emma Frost... They are the two most powerful psychics in the X-Books, they don’t need to be constantly pitted against one another. They both have amazing attributes and add so much to whatever book they are in. This whole thing has gone on for way too damn long, can we stop beating Butter Rum? It’s time for editorial, the books, and fans to start moving on and look forward. Scott Summers needs to let these two not be categorized as two women fighting over a man.

I think both sides could agree to that. Moving forward would be nice. But writers love drama, so I imagine we'll get a bit more of them at each other's throat until we can finally move on.

[myownlittleusername]

Characters like Wolverine and Rogue are considered straight up heroes not anti-heroes by editorial because they view them as inherently good.

That's how the characters are defined.

When for most X-men they do something ethically questionable, it's a temporary deviation from their core character for the purpose of the current story.

While when Emma does something similar it's simply part of her character.

[myownlittleusername]

Haha, I do agree. I’m just honestly so sick of Jean Grey vs Emma Frost... They are the two most powerful psychics in the X-Books, they don’t need to be constantly pitted against one another. They both have amazing attributes and add so much to whatever book they are in. This whole thing has gone on for way too damn long, can we stop beating Butter Rum? It’s time for editorial, the books, and fans to start moving on and look forward. Scott Summers needs to let these two not be categorized as two women fighting over a man.

I think both sides could agree to that. Moving forward would be nice. But writers love drama, so I imagine we'll get a bit more of them at each other's throat until we can finally move on.

We don't know if there's currently any "vs" going on, since the characters have not met or mentioned each other in any way (as far as I know) since Phoenix Resurrection.

Will have to wait and see how Hickman handles it, assuming it comes up in his books. They might move in different circles also in the upcoming minis.

[RachelGrey]

I think both sides could agree to that. Moving forward would be nice. But writers love drama, so I imagine we'll get a bit more of them at each other's throat until we can finally move on.

I have 3 favourite X-characters, Rachel, Emma, and Jean. I would be perfectly happy if they all got a chance to be on a book together for once. My greatest hope is a story that requires them to work together to defeat someone. I know this would probably be the Shadow King since he is the post powerful telepathic enemy, but I would really like to see Emma, Jean, and Rachel working together to take down someone like the Shadow King.