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  1. #3001
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    Yeah, you're overreacting.

  2. #3002
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Yeah, you're overreacting.
    I don't think so. The solicits have not been kind so far, and if that spoiled thread on Reddit is even half right, it is only going to get worse. Sorry I don't believe Marvel gave Hickman unilateral authority to simply contradict every writer of the last four years at will for the sake of his pet characters.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  3. #3003
    Astonishing Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    I don't think so. The solicits have not been kind so far, and if that spoiled thread on Reddit is even half right, it is only going to get worse. Sorry I don't believe Marvel gave Hickman unilateral authority to simply contradict every writer of the last four years at will for the sake of his pet characters.
    Did the spoilers give anything else besides the solicits? I am curious what else was said.

  4. #3004
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    Did the spoilers give anything else besides the solicits? I am curious what else was said.
    The Marauders 3 Solicit was to the extent of:

    "A surprise intruder threatens to rock the boat for Captain Kate Pryde. How does this play into the Hellfire Trading Company's plan for the Marauders, and the schemes of the White Queen?"
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  5. #3005
    Mighty Member TheDeadSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    The Marauders 3 Solicit was to the extent of:

    "A surprise intruder threatens to rock the boat for Captain Kate Pryde. How does this play into the Hellfire Trading Company's plan for the Marauders, and the schemes of the White Queen?"
    Well, it definitely has the opportunity to go south if this is real, but I think I'll hold out for something positive. Maybe she has different motives that are still heroic in some way, but instead clash with Kitty's?
    "This is starting to sound like a bad comic book plot"
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  6. #3006
    Incredible Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Oh, come on, that is a typical solicit, lol. I can't count the amount of times advance solicits have teased 'will Emma break bad again??' since the Clinton administration. It means nothing, it never has. "The schemes of the White Queen?" Wow, spooky. How unlike Emma Frost to scheme behind people's back for her own aims/the greater good.

    The fact is most of the modern generation of fans now know and accept or love Emma as a morally gray heroine/antiheroine. Morrison-onward and to a somewhat lesser extent Gen X popularized that. That is not going to change. She is not going to go back all the way to black any time soon. The time to do it if they'd wanted to would've been just post-Morrison during the Perfection arc in Whedon's Astonishing; that was the last time I was actually worried they would. It was a fakeout. It always will be. I don't understand why anyone actually gets worked up about these. I have a lot of favorite characters, Emma included, but surely we've all read comics long enough to not be snowed by solicits.

  7. #3007
    Incredible Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Except that Emma has been portrayed in every X-book since Whedon as a psychotically evil person who hates her students and exists as either a hole for Scott to fuck or a monster that kicks puppies and explodes horses.
    I think Emma has been poorly served by a number of creative teams in the 21st century, but overall we have a wildly different impression of the last 15 years. They have kept Emma central because they know she is popular as a key member of the X-Men, and that the pairing with Scott was also popular. There have been several bad stories for her (including very recently), but they are borne out of the company's belief that Emma is a morally fluid character who can handle dark and duplicitous stories. That's called taking her for granted. Some of the stories go too dark, but I don't feel I have seen "Emma hates her students" or "Emma is a coward" much. If you want to believe Jonathan Hickman is being told how to write Emma Frost, good luck with that but there are rarely those kind of conspiracies, IMO. It's often just laziness and incompetence, which has often typified the X-offices since Morrison. Until now, IMO.

    a leaked solicit which seemed credible is saying that she's one of the big bads of the Marauders book. I don't see a reason to be optimistic in the slightest.
    Yeah, it definitely does not say that. And in fairness, it seems like you haven't seen a reason since 2004 and are approaching everything through that lens. That sounds exhausting.

  8. #3008
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    I think Emma has been poorly served by a number of creative teams in the 21st century, but overall we have a wildly different impression of the last 15 years. They have kept Emma central because they know she is popular as a key member of the X-Men, and that the pairing with Scott was also popular. There have been several bad stories for her (including very recently), but they are borne out of the company's belief that Emma is a morally fluid character who can handle dark and duplicitous stories. That's called taking her for granted. Some of the stories go too dark, but I don't feel I have seen "Emma hates her students" or "Emma is a coward" much. If you want to believe Jonathan Hickman is being told how to write Emma Frost, good luck with that but there are rarely those kind of conspiracies, IMO. It's often just laziness and incompetence, which has often typified the X-offices since Morrison. Until now, IMO.



    Yeah, it definitely does not say that. And in fairness, it seems like you haven't seen a reason since 2004 and are approaching everything through that lens. That sounds exhausting.
    I have put up with the crap Emma treatment she's gotten in the X-books for a long time. But IvX was the straw that broke the camel's back. Since then, her portrayal as a psychotic idiot has been nothing short of insulting to all Emma fans. Uncanny's Emma was the worst she has ever been portrayed ever, and I don't use that as hyperbole. She was incompetent enough to let her Hellfire Club get mooked easily, cowardly enough to sell out every mutant on the planet to save her own skin, and dumb enough to think any of her plans would actually accomplish anything other than make things worse. It was clear Rosenberg has nothing but contempt for Scott and Emma post-Schism.

    Now we get a book where she's paired with three characters who hate her, and working with the guy she brutally beat to death in X-Men Black. So there is a LOT to be concerned about. I've never read anything by Hickman, so I don't have this love affair that people seem to have for his work. I think people are being hopeful that we'll actually get new stories, but I'm legit worried Emma is gonna be thrown under the bus again in the new status quo, which seems to heavily revolve around going back to the 1980s status.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  9. #3009
    Mighty Member KangMiRae's Avatar
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    I like the idea of Emma being away from the Marauders most of the time. It means they have to come to land sometime and vice versa. It also means that there may be more characters involved in Emma's side than just the initial cast, like Shaw.
    Admiral of a fleet of shipsórelationships!
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  10. #3010
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    I like Emma scheming and plotting lol she's not going to be a villain, she's part of the main roster. She will be having doing some work behind her teammates backs, and that's cool. Even in Whedon's Astonishing she was plotting and it was cool.

  11. #3011
    Incredible Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    I have put up with the crap Emma treatment she's gotten in the X-books for a long time.
    So have lots of us. And as for the Inhumans they're all but dead now and a laughing stock to the readership after the years-long failed push, while Emma Frost remains popular with the X-Men audience.

    Uncanny's Emma was the worst she has ever been portrayed ever, and I don't use that as hyperbole. She was incompetent enough to let her Hellfire Club get mooked easily, cowardly enough to sell out every mutant on the planet to save her own skin, and dumb enough to think any of her plans would actually accomplish anything other than make things worse. It was clear Rosenberg has nothing but contempt for Scott and Emma post-Schism.
    And Rosenberg is gone.

    Now we get a book where she's paired with three characters who hate her, and working with the guy she brutally beat to death in X-Men Black.
    Working with or playing? As she's done many times with many villains? As for X-Men who have issues with Emma Frost the line is probably half of Manhattan. That's part of the excitement that goes with the character, the tension and drama in that interplay and long history. She's been working with people who distrust or actively dislike her for over 20 years and has largely proven them wrong.

    I've never read anything by Hickman, so I don't have this love affair that people seem to have for his work.
    I have, that's why I have one. I remember the 80s status quo. This ain't it.

  12. #3012
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    There was a spoiler thread on Reddit (since deleted) that had solicits for Fallen Angels and Marauders 3. Basically the story sounds like Emma is working with Shaw to use Kitty and Storm for some unseen financial purpose. So it sounds like Emma is going to be cartoonishly stupidly evil for Hickman's tenure.
    Are you seriously have this OTT reaction because of a vague maybe legitimate solicit. Really? That's embarrassing. I understand over the last 2-3 few years Emma has been written poorly, but lets at least give Duggan & Hickman a chance before we throw our toys out of the pram.

    And as for who has more sway, Hickman or JDW I'd give it to the former. JDW as we know likes his characters to be classic flavoured, i.e boyscout Cyclops, but given how Hickman has been writing him, he obviously sees him differently.

    Emma being written as doing shady or underhanded things also comes part and parcel of the character. It makes me laugh when Emma fans complain about her being portrayed as less than good like they want her to be Jean or something. No, that's not why the character broke out and attempts to whitewash her history as helpless victim do a massive disservice to the character.

  13. #3013
    Incredible Member powerpax's Avatar
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    I find Emma endlessly more interesting than Jean and always have. There is a reason OG Jean stayed in the dirt as long as she did and a big part of that is Emma Frost.

  14. #3014
    Spectacular Member Black Queen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    I find Emma endlessly more interesting than Jean and always have. There is a reason OG Jean stayed in the dirt as long as she did and a big part of that is Emma Frost.
    Its stuff like that will always end in a fight. KEEP THAT TO YOURSELF MY DEAR

  15. #3015
    Incredible Member powerpax's Avatar
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    In the dirt with the worms!!

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