Emma Frost: White Queen Appreciation 2019

[xhx23x]

Yeah, Monet's relationship with Emma when she came back from being Penance was much more co-worker(esque) than an actual student/teacher bond. I don't even ship them but a lot of Monet's relationships get based on stuff she wasn't really around for, not just Emma but a lot of the Gen Xers in general

That's why the twist and reveal of her being Penance never really worked for me cause after she and the twins switched everyone acted like nothing really changed.

I don't ship them either, btw, I'm just saying that if they're going to have any sort of relationship, the fact they haven't had any meaningful interaction with each other should be address first.

[PsychoEFrost]

I think this is the same LW that thinks she & Jean would be great friends. Yeah, Jean becoming besties with the woman who screwed her husband just to get over on her.

I am not crazy about Leah Williams as a writer. And honestly, her personality comes off very abrasive as well.

She's passionate about her work. I'll take that over the writers that refuse to divulge any detail of what they enjoy lest they upset someone. I don't completely agree with her on Jean and Emma being friends, but I agree the pure unending hatred should stop, especially after Emma saved Jeen and worked with Jean to do it.

jDW needs to keep Leah Williams away from Emma Frost and all X-Books

Your hate boner for Williams is impressive.

[ExodusCloak]

She's passionate about her work. I'll take that over the writers that refuse to divulge any detail of what they enjoy lest they upset someone. I don't completely agree with her on Jean and Emma being friends, but I agree the pure unending hatred should stop, especially after Emma saved Jeen and worked with Jean to do it.



Your hate boner for Williams is impressive.

Cosigned Leah is amazing I love her

[Snoop Dogg]

Hm, if only there was an example, ideally within the X-Men, of two characters who could cooperate and have camaraderie while maintaining an adversarial relationship.

[PsychoEFrost]

Hm, if only there was an example, ideally within the X-Men, of two characters who could cooperate and have camaraderie while maintaining an adversarial relationship.

They're male, doesn't count.

[PsychoEFrost]

So JDW's newest take on Emma is:

"Her time with the X-Men was great because she had tons of panel time, not because of her actions. She isn't a hero. She's a complicated protagonist, but is not a hero. And I want everyone on the X-Men to be heroes."

To that I respond: So the final X-Men team won't have Xavier, Wolverine, Cyclops, Gambit, Rogue, Bishop, or Jean on it, right? Because they've all done stuff that is as bad or worse than the worst Emma has ever done.

[xhx23x]

So JDW's newest take on Emma is:

"Her time with the X-Men was great because she had tons of panel time, not because of her actions. She isn't a hero. She's a complicated protagonist, but is not a hero. And I want everyone on the X-Men to be heroes."

To that I respond: So the final X-Men team won't have Xavier, Wolverine, Cyclops, Gambit, Rogue, Bishop, or Jean on it, right? Because they've all done stuff that is as bad or worse than the worst Emma has ever done.

After listening to that podcast, I'm wiling to give him a break because he does admit his viewpoint is rather black and white and didn't seem like he would stop any of the writers from using Emma in a heroic fashion. He stated that as an opinion not the actual direction Emma should or is going to take. And considering he admitted he missed the both on Generation X, that view point makes sense.

[Omega Alpha]

So JDW's newest take on Emma is:

"Her time with the X-Men was great because she had tons of panel time, not because of her actions. She isn't a hero. She's a complicated protagonist, but is not a hero. And I want everyone on the X-Men to be heroes."

To that I respond: So the final X-Men team won't have Xavier, Wolverine, Cyclops, Gambit, Rogue, Bishop, or Jean on it, right? Because they've all done stuff that is as bad or worse than the worst Emma has ever done.

Good thing Our Lord and Savior Jonathan, the First of His Name, will do whatever he wants, because if depended on JDW she would be Shaw's sex slave in the Hellfire Club.

That said, Hickman was allowed to have, in the very first issue of Marvel's biggest event in a long time, Captain America and Iron Man murdering each other while the world ended. I guess he'll have freedom enough, specially considering Marvel actually wants the X-men to be very successful for the first time in years now.

. And considering he admitted he missed the both on Generation X, that view point makes sense.

There's still Astonishing X-men, by far the most successful attempt at Marvel of a more traditional X-men comic in the last decades, in which she was firmly a hero or anti-hero at most.

[xhx23x]

There's still Astonishing X-men, by far the most successful attempt at Marvel of a more traditional X-men comic in the last decades, in which she was firmly a hero or anti-hero at most.

Oh there is. But my point is, that's not his relationship with the team. He likes heroes to be very much coded heroic so I can see where he's coming from with it. I don't agree with him. Especially with the X-Men, who to me, have never been conventional heroes, but I think it's very easy to vilify his opinion just because it doesn't align with how we view Emma.

[Omega Alpha]

Oh there is. But my point is, that's not his relationship with the team. He likes heroes to be very much coded heroic so I can see where he's coming from with it. I don't agree with him. Especially with the X-Men, who to me, have never been conventional heroes, but I think it's very easy to vilify his opinion just because it doesn't align with how we view Emma.

The thing is that his view, specially, but not only, on Emma, doesn't really fit with pretty much anything good that was done with the X-men in the last decades, and this kind of perspective is why we got (under other editors, I know) things like X-men Gold, the constant attempts to vilify Cyclops, and the overall stale state of the books. It leads to the books telling stories about other stories, like Hickman said.

If he'll let Hickman have free reign, great, but I worry what we'll have after he leaves and/or with other writers. Seems to be another case of an editor and/or creator too influenced by childhood nostalgia to be objective. There's always the risk after a Hickman, we'll see what's happening with the F4 now, with Slott or someone like him turning back Doom's characterization in decades and trying to reset everything to the past, and that is much more likely to happen with an editor that shares similar views.

Also, even in the 80's, you had Storm and Psylocke mindwiping and even considering killing Havok, Wolverine stabbing Rachel, pretty much every X-men and X-factor member killing during the Mutant Massacre, etc.

[Maestro 216]

That is my big fear all of this will be undone in a half assed manner by a new creative team.

[Omega Alpha]

That is my big fear all of this will be undone in a half assed manner by a new creative team.

It's always the risk at Marvel, not just in the X-men- the next writer has his pitch he's been dreaming since childhood/teenage years and if it has to ignore whatever happened in the last 5 years or so, OK, then.

[Tycon]

I love that Emma and Jean weren’t on the BEST of terms but they were still pretty amiable with each other. Plus Jean’s got all her memories so she remembers this plus all those months of training under Emma. That should be enough to make them acquaintances, right?

[PsychoEFrost]

I love that Emma and Jean weren’t on the BEST of terms but they were still pretty amiable with each other. Plus Jean’s got all her memories so she remembers this plus all those months of training under Emma. That should be enough to make them acquaintances, right?

Jean fans like to pretend the whole Jeen solo never happened, so I don't know.

[Havok83]

I love that Emma and Jean weren’t on the BEST of terms but they were still pretty amiable with each other. Plus Jean’s got all her memories so she remembers this plus all those months of training under Emma. That should be enough to make them acquaintances, right?

We dont know that Jean remembers any of this. It was ignored and prior to Extermination, it appeared that her memories ended when she died