Emma Frost: White Queen Appreciation 2019

[ButterRum]

What she and Fraction did with Emma's origins and Shaw as absolutely indefensible and sexist. Fortunately, Emma being a telepath, is very easy to retcon all of it and she manipulated Namor/Shaw/everyone.

It's not just Fraction and Williams. It was the X-Men Origins Annual too. The Brubaker issue in Deadly Genesis possibly started it too, but it was still open to interpretation. But yeah I'd say Fraction's work was the main culprit.

Sadly Williams was just carrying on and acknowledging the continuity the past 10 years of Emma's retconned history, but she really seems to like to remind us of it. *cries*

What pisses me off is that the abUsEd sTrIpper, ShAW aBUSED mE rETCOn has been the mainstream part of Emma's history now the past 10 years. This is going to reflect in future comics, movies, tv shows, and video games. Ugh.

Emma fans should complain and be loud about it. Maybe they'll write it off like they wrote off Magneto's Planet X.

Oh, let's not forget IvX line that turned her into some dumb blonde in her teenage years where she said she couldn't pass HIGH SCHOOL chemistry and had to use her short skirt to pass the class!!!!

[Omega Alpha]

There's nothing more sexist and less empowering to women than self-proclaimed progressives and feminists...

[Tycon]

There's nothing more sexist and less empowering to women than self-proclaimed progressives and feminists...

Except mayhaps....misogynists.

[Agent Z]

Takeda worked because he had his psi-sword, similar to Psylocke. Something that distinguishes.

Well Emma's got her diamond form so that could help. You could make it sort of a stance system: using telepathy allows for stunning and high damage attacks but low health while her diamond form is stronger and more durable but not as fast.

[Omega Alpha]

Except mayhaps....misogynists.

You understood what I meant. Even because often they are the same thing.

[Tycon]

You understood what I meant. Even because often they are the same thing.

Unless those “self-proclaimed progressives and feminists” are men who are using that ideology to try and get women, I don’t see how they’re the same at all.

[Omega Alpha]

Unless those “self-proclaimed progressives and feminists” are men who are using that ideology to try and get women, I don’t see how they’re the same at all.

I didn't say ALWAYS. You seem to be trying pushing a point when there isn't one to be made.

[Tycon]

Pretty clear what you were doing here, but I'll drop it and let the gaslighting continue:

There's nothing more sexist and less empowering to women than self-proclaimed progressives and feminists...

Anteeways, I'm excited for Hickman's plans with Emma. People are probably burnt out with Scemma, but I feel like he might be taking the Gillen approach to their relationship where Scott needs her to be an effective leader.

[Frostberg]

Pretty clear what you were doing here, but I'll drop it and let the gaslighting continue:



Anteeways, I'm excited for Hickman's plans with Emma. People are probably burnt out with Scemma, but I feel like he might be taking the Gillen approach to their relationship where Scott needs her to be an effective leader.

What I always found telling is that he refers to Emma as a woman compared to Jean's 'girl'. Gillen was amazing with subtle stuff like that

[ButterRum]

There's nothing more sexist and less empowering to women than self-proclaimed progressives and feminists...

I wouldn't say the people who retconned Emma's past are fake progressives or anything. I think in the context of Emma's long history, the retcon itself looks sexist, regressive, and retroactive. That's my problem.

I can see how people relate to the retcon during the whole #MeToo era too. It's very #MeToo and trendy to portray a fictional character who overcomes an abusive past from an older man. But I think this story for Emma's character in particular the retcon is regressive and gross because it takes away the agency she had when she was portrayed as the White Queen.

If Emma started off as someone like Jessica Jones, the story would be less problematic and actually look empowering. It's all about context.

[TheDeadSpace]

What I always found telling is that he refers to Emma as a woman compared to Jean's 'girl'. Gillen was amazing with subtle stuff like that

Hm, that's quite interesting. I never fully picked up on that. Considering Cyclops view on certain things, it makes some sense I guess.

[Glio]

What I always found telling is that he refers to Emma as a woman compared to Jean's 'girl'. Gillen was amazing with subtle stuff like that

I agree. Part of the conflict of Jean and Scott in New X-Men is that having been in a telepathic relationship since they were teenagers, Scott had repressed many sexual things. In a way they tried to force their relationship to be an ideal teenage love but they were now adults.

Emma was the adult woman that Scott felt he needed. She would never judge him for having kinky thoughts. He could be comfortable with her because he had no shame with her.

It was a Madonna-whore complex

[Omega Alpha]

I wouldn't say the people who retconned Emma's past are fake progressives or anything. I think in the context of Emma's long history, the retcon itself looks sexist, regressive, and retroactive. That's my problem.

I can see how people relate to the retcon during the whole #MeToo era too. It's very #MeToo and trendy to portray a fictional character who overcomes an abusive past from an older man. But I think this story for Emma's character in particular the retcon is regressive and gross because it takes away the agency she had when she was portrayed as the White Queen. .

Yeah, but the problem is that someone that is really progressive should know the difference.

I agree. Part of the conflict of Jean and Scott in New X-Men is that having been in a telepathic relationship since they were teenagers, Scott had repressed many sexual things. In a way they tried to force their relationship to be an ideal teenage love but they were now adults.

Emma was the adult woman that Scott felt he needed. She would never judge him for having kinky thoughts. He could be comfortable with her because he had no shame with her.

It was a Madonna-whore complex

And of course Jean becoming a literal God, more than once, and resurrecting from the dead, made it worse.

And it's very important to acknowledge, like I think Gillen does, that if Scott was still with Jean, the X-men wouldn't have survived the Decimation era; he'd be too afraid of letting her down to do some of the darkest things he did (even X-force Scott kept from Emma for a long time, imagine with her around). Not to mention Norman Osborne would never have picked Emma as the mutant contact and the story would go differently. And without Scott, we see what happens in HCT, not to mention Emma would never be able to inspire the entire mutantkind to follow her.

Basically, preferring Scott with Emma or with Jean mostly indicates if you prefer your love stories classic (romantic, beautiful, keeps characters in their "ideal" versions) or realistic (messy and chaotic, but makes people grow to new and unexpected directions). I prefer the latter, not to mention it would be good not only for them, but for Jean too- you have the one woman that could pretty much have any X-man she wanted, is seen as the perfect X-woman by many, but loses the one man she wants not to someone like Storm, noble and heroic, but to a former villain with a history of bad behavior and attitude that is the opposite of her in most aspects. A good writer could get a great character arc out of this.

[Glio]

Yeah, but the problem is that someone that is really progressive should know the difference.



And of course Jean becoming a literal God, more than once, and resurrecting from the dead, made it worse.

And it's very important to acknowledge, like I think Gillen does, that if Scott was still with Jean, the X-men wouldn't have survived the Decimation era; he'd be too afraid of letting her down to do some of the darkest things he did (even X-force Scott kept from Emma for a long time, imagine with her around). Not to mention Norman Osborne would never have picked Emma as the mutant contact and the story would go differently. And without Scott, we see what happens in HCT, not to mention Emma would never be able to inspire the entire mutantkind to follow her.

Basically, preferring Scott with Emma or with Jean mostly indicates if you prefer your love stories classic (romantic, beautiful, keeps characters in their "ideal" versions) or realistic (messy and chaotic, but makes people grow to new and unexpected directions). I prefer the latter, not to mention it would be good not only for them, but for Jean too- you have the one woman that could pretty much have any X-man she wanted, is seen as the perfect X-woman by many, but loses the one man she wants not to someone like Storm, noble and heroic, but to a former villain with a history of bad behavior and attitude that is the opposite of her in most aspects. A good writer could get a great character arc out of this.

Yes, the Phoenix did not help. Scott was afraid of provoking too intense feelings to Jean for the Phoenix, with Emma not having that problem either.

[spirit2011]

I agree. Part of the conflict of Jean and Scott in New X-Men is that having been in a telepathic relationship since they were teenagers, Scott had repressed many sexual things. In a way they tried to force their relationship to be an ideal teenage love but they were now adults.

Emma was the adult woman that Scott felt he needed. She would never judge him for having kinky thoughts. He could be comfortable with her because he had no shame with her.

It was a Madonna-whore complex

This i spure retcon crap. Scott and Jean only got together for real when they were young adult. They even raised a kid together.