Emma Frost: White Queen Appreciation 2019

[Black Queen]

Jean is pretty clearly Gwen in this scenario- the idealized dead first love.

NO she's not

[Omega Alpha]

NO she's not

She's not dead anymore, sure, but idealized first love she's clearly

[Black Queen]

She's not dead anymore, sure, but idealized first love she's clearly

Whatever bro...up to you, you win

[Omega Alpha]

Whatever bro...up to you, you win

How is that Gwen is Maddie? Jean fits it almost perfectly, Maddie doesn't really have anything in common.

Also, Felicia doesn't really strike me as Emma, despite a few superficial similarities, in that the relationship didn't really strike as that deep- she was always going to be a thief, and Peter would never be in the long run with someone that didn't appreciate his normal side more than the Spider one.

[ExodusCloak]

Jean is pretty clearly Gwen in this scenario- the idealized dead first love.

Yup that's the only way it can be seen. The only thing MJ and Jean share is red hair. As for Gwen. Jean is no Gwen. The only thing they share is they're the idiolised first love. Gwen for one is very intelligent. Jeans of average intelligence. I love Gwen for that reason.

Emma is also attracted to Scott for Scotts mind and Felicia is attracted to Spiderman over Peter

[Omega Alpha]

Yeah, I see Emma much more as a MJ not only because she's the 2nd love, but because she accepts fully both sides of Peter/Scott (in Scott's case, it's both the boyscout and the more aggressive/militant one) and pushes him to loosen up.

[ExodusCloak]

Yeah, I see Emma much more as a MJ not only because she's the 2nd love, but because she accepts fully both sides of Peter/Scott (in Scott's case, it's both the boyscout and the more aggressive/militant one) and pushes him to loosen up.

In terms of love for sure completely agree. In terms of personality I think Jean has nothing in common with any of them. Emma has more in common with Gwen and MJ and Felicia. Jeans more like Sue. Emma's more like Alyssa.

[The tall man]

Yeah, I see Emma much more as a MJ not only because she's the 2nd love, but because she accepts fully both sides of Peter/Scott (in Scott's case, it's both the boyscout and the more aggressive/militant one) and pushes him to loosen up.

So you believe Emma loved Scott more then Jean did. And conversely that Scott loved her more than Jean?

[Omega Alpha]

So you believe Emma loved Scott more then Jean did. And conversely that Scott loved her more than Jean?

Not what I mean. Gwen didn't really know about Spider-Man, so she didn't really have the option, and I also don't think Peter necessarily love Gwen more. It's just a matter of being different kinds of love- usually teenage/first ones are more intense, while more mature ones are tempered by experience, and, at times, grief and loss of previous ones.

[Decoy]

I feel that Scott and Emma, excluding the creative reasons behind it starting, was like in real life, a widower trying to live on without a spouse (Scott living on without Jean in this case), Scott I don’t think had the same level with Emma as he had with Jean (I could be wrong, but did they have a Psi Rapport like he had with Jean?).......Emma of course fell for Cyclops (since he tends to attract female telepaths, must be the brooding nature), while Scott had feelings for Emma, but you know if Jean came back while they where together, Scott would have been in a quandary, leave Emma to try to repair things with Jean, or let Jean go......of course, we know that when she came back, Scott and Emma broke up a year or so before his death.....so where would this triangle go in July? Assuming that Emma hasn’t gone full evil, the mind wipe of the entire team (save Juggernaut) would be hard to justify (unless they say that there are 2 Emma’s, the one from the last 15 Years was part of a long revenge scheme, and the Original, circa Generation X, returns, defeats her double, and rejoins the team.....,only difference being this one doesn’t have any romantic feelings for Scott.......)......it would explain Emma’s actions of late.......time will tell I guess (though I agree with JDW, Emma would be in the losing equation to Scott and Jean.......Emma would probably do better with a Character with less baggage, like say Forge, Warren, Bobby (wait, scratch Bobby), even Hercules, Johnny Storm (assuming Lyja doesn’t come back), Dane Whitman, or Pete Wisdom......)

I just wish they’d waited a few months, or a year before the relationship started......but no, Morrison wanted to start it officially before Jean had been in the grave for a month, and Scott gained a larger amount of hate then with the Madelyn mess.......

[Omega Alpha]

Scott was already ready to leave Jean for Emma in Morrison's run before she died; although of course he'd still have feelings for her, written well he would have moved on, which is exactly what happened in Whedon's run. The problem is that starting in Gillen and Aaron's run, writers and editors wanted to bring the X-men to the old Xavier x Magneto dynamic because of childhood nostalgia, and that aspect included Emma being EEEEEEEEEVIL- hence why Gillen insisted on the Namor non-sense, he would be a tool to make Emma evil again and leave Scott.

This is ultimately an aspect that essentially ruins modern Marvel more than any other- one writer does revolutionary work, the next one might even try follow, but immediately afterwards everything is ignored because writers and editors want to bring things back to their childhoods. This is essentially what's happening now in F4; after Hickman's revolutionary run, Fraction tried to more or less follow it on most aspects (even if not as successfully), then you have Slott now ignoring the last decades, particularly of Doom and Galactus, to tell a story he clearly wanted to tell for a long time. It's also happening in Rosenberg's run, which basically ignores the last decades of characterization and events not written by him.

[fsger]

Scott was already ready to leave Jean for Emma in Morrison's run before she died; although of course he'd still have feelings for her, written well he would have moved on, which is exactly what happened in Whedon's run. The problem is that starting in Gillen and Aaron's run, writers and editors wanted to bring the X-men to the old Xavier x Magneto dynamic because of childhood nostalgia, and that aspect included Emma being EEEEEEEEEVIL- hence why Gillen insisted on the Namor non-sense, he would be a tool to make Emma evil again and leave Scott.

This is ultimately an aspect that essentially ruins modern Marvel more than any other- one writer does revolutionary work, the next one might even try follow, but immediately afterwards everything is ignored because writers and editors want to bring things back to their childhoods. This is essentially what's happening now in F4; after Hickman's revolutionary run, Fraction tried to more or less follow it on most aspects (even if not as successfully), then you have Slott now ignoring the last decades, particularly of Doom and Galactus, to tell a story he clearly wanted to tell for a long time. It's also happening in Rosenberg's run, which basically ignores the last decades of characterization and events not written by him.

Dude, you are living on denial. Emma being out of the books has nothing to do with nostalgia. All her development and panel time was thanks to Scott and Scemma, without those many writers don't know what to do with her on the X-men anymore because she has no friends and Scott can't be attached to her all the time (he is his own character).
You're also ignoring that Scemma was never perfect and Jean's shadow was always all over it, you don't like it but is the truth, they also broke up years ago and had their own share of problems. This is one of the reasons I don't like Scemma, it needs Scott to be trash and ignore so many things to keep going.

[spirit2011]

NO she's not

But Morrison said she was after ignoring decades of development, so it must be true.

First love doesn't mean idealized, people are puting their own half assed ideas here. Specially when Jean and Scott raised a kid on a apocalypt future, were married for a long time.
Any idealized version would die after all the crap they went too.

[Omega Alpha]

Dude, you are living on denial. Emma being out of the books has nothing to do with nostalgia. All her development and panel time was thanks to Scott and Scemma, without those many writers don't know what to do with her on the X-men anymore because she has no friends and Scott can't be attached to her all the time (he is his own character).
You're also ignoring that Scemma was never perfect and Jean's shadow was always all over it, you don't like it but is the truth, they also broke up years ago and had their own share of problems. This is one of the reasons I don't like Scemma, it needs Scott to be trash and ignore so many things to keep going.

I never said it was perfect, no relationship is (and shouldn't be in fiction). And yes, it was nostalgia, just look at JDW's interviews and statements to get a good sense of what I'm talking about, it's impossible to defend the idea that Emma "never fit as a X-woman or a classic X-men team", when she's done for more than a decade; someone even found a statement here from, what, 2008, middle of Fraction's run and Whedon's AXM still ongoing, when he says that "Emma is not a hero, the X-men are all villains now", which even led him to reply to my post when I commented on it. She's been a X-woman for far longer than she was a villain, and part of the X-family, if you go back to Gen X, for 25 years. Every attack on her goes back to one of "JEAAAAAAAAN!" and "MY CHILDHOOD!".

[Diammandis]

I see two emma haters in this thread, so I already know this whole discussion going nowhere at all...

Anyways im playing MFF again and I just noticed Psylockes new costume and the animations are amazing!! This honestly makes me wish theyd include the P5 costume for Emma, as I can see them doing the animations quite well