Emma Frost: White Queen Appreciation 2019

[Maestro 216]

I just read it. I am 80% sure I hate it. Absolutely hate it.

The Emma of Gen X or Morrison would have let Callahan torture the ever loving shit out of her before handing over an anti-mutant vaccine. She was willing to kill the last person that made one (Kevita Rao). Having her pull that was like having Magneto try and herd humans into ovens, or Bishop destroying 10 realities and 3 billion people. It's the rough equal of having Jean murder a room of children. It's a complete and total betrayal of the character.

The rest of the issue means nothing, and I could care less about relationships at this point. Rosenberg simply showed he has absolutely no idea about anything regarding Emma. Absolutely nothing.

I mean if Emma wasn't that invested in her self of worth she would have let herself die than be used like this. The only way this can end well if she does sacrifice herself to show that she does care about mutants.

[PsychoEFrost]

I mean if Emma wasn't that invested in her self of worth she would have let herself die than be used like this. The only way this can end well if she does sacrifice herself to show that she does care about mutants.

She absolutely would have let herself die than do that. To do anything otherwise is a complete misunderstanding of the character. The issue made it clear that Rosenberg and White believe she only ever cares about Scott and herself, and that's complete BULL.

[TheDeadSpace]

I just read it. I am 80% sure I hate it. Absolutely hate it.

The Emma of Gen X or Morrison would have let Callahan torture the ever loving shit out of her before handing over an anti-mutant vaccine. She was willing to kill the last person that made one (Kevita Rao). Having her pull that was like having Magneto try and herd humans into ovens, or Bishop destroying 10 realities and 3 billion people. It's the rough equal of having Jean murder a room of children. It's a complete and total betrayal of the character.

The rest of the issue means nothing, and I could care less about relationships at this point. Rosenberg simply showed he has absolutely no idea about anything regarding Emma. Absolutely nothing.

Yeah, that decision was definitely up there as one of the worst choices possible for a character. Though to be honest, my expectations were so low, that giving Emma some heroic aspects slightly saved it for me in the sense that Emma wasn't completely tarnished as a character. At the same time, I feel that Rosenberg wanted this setup and felt this was the only plausible way to make it. It also felt like a cop out to save Anole.

Is there anything at this point that will fix what they've done, or is it a simply wait to see what Hickman does situation for you now?

[PsychoEFrost]

Yeah, that decision was definitely up there as one of the worst choices possible for a character. Though to be honest, my expectations were so low, that giving Emma some heroic aspects slightly saved it for me in the sense that Emma wasn't completely tarnished as a character. At the same time, I feel that Rosenberg wanted this setup and felt this was the only plausible way to make it. It also felt like a cop out to save Anole.

Is there anything at this point that will fix what they've done, or is it a simply wait to see what Hickman does situation for you now?

My expectations even for Hickman are in the basement. I fully expect Emma and Magneto's force to cartoonishly evil there to mess things up so the X-Men can save the day.

[TheDeadSpace]

My expectations even for Hickman are in the basement. I fully expect Emma and Magneto's force to cartoonishly evil there to mess things up so the X-Men can save the day.

Well, I can't really think of anything that might improve your expectations, but hopefully the X-office's characterization improves. You and the other characters' fans deserve a well written Emma, hopefully sooner than later.

[PsychoEFrost]

Well, I can't really think of anything that might improve your expectations, but hopefully the X-office's characterization improves. You and the other characters' fans deserve a well written Emma, hopefully sooner than later.

The thing is... this was Rosenberg's idea of a "positive" Emma. If his idea of a "positive" Emma is one that throws mutantkind under the bus to save her own skin, and shows that she cares exactly zero about anyone that isn't herself or Scott, that says everything we need to know.

[VNCTG]

I just read it. I am 80% sure I hate it. Absolutely hate it.

The Emma of Gen X or Morrison would have let Callahan torture the ever loving shit out of her before handing over an anti-mutant vaccine. She was willing to kill the last person that made one (Kevita Rao). Having her pull that was like having Magneto try and herd humans into ovens, or Bishop destroying 10 realities and 3 billion people. It's the rough equal of having Jean murder a room of children. It's a complete and total betrayal of the character.

The rest of the issue means nothing, and I could care less about relationships at this point. Rosenberg simply showed he has absolutely no idea about anything regarding Emma. Absolutely nothing.

Hm, sorry you felt that way about the issue and her characterization in it in general. We clearly have different perceptions of the character, and for good reason. But is it really SO out of character for her to reveal the cure serum? She's been written as being a "survivor" in the past, the most notable example I can think of is Genosha. Leaking the serum was probably her means of an out, if it mean't she would survive. I imagined it being backed into a corner and end up having to make that decision. She even self-apologized to Anole if that mean't anything.

On the other hand, yeah, she could've kept this hidden and essentially sacrificed herself. It was clear she was willing to die during IvX (yes, I know it was trash). I may be overthinking/over-analyzing but I think given her situation and the setting she was in, she still had cards to play. This calculating nature is one of the things I find most fascinating about her. I'm sure the time spent in that light room was planning her next move. This was just my 2 cents on the issue. I consider Emma an incredibly multifaceted character, so its difficult to say what she should/should've done at any given point in a story.

I do think this is a step in the right direction..ish. Its clear she isn't *the* villain. At this point that's all I can wish for as an Emma fan.

[PsychoEFrost]

Hm, sorry you felt that way about the issue and her characterization in it in general. We clearly have different perceptions of the character, and for good reason. But is it really SO out of character for her to reveal the cure serum? She's been written as being a "survivor" in the past, the most notable example I can think of is Genosha. Leaking the serum was probably her means of an out, if it mean't she would survive. I imagined it being backed into a corner and end up having to make that decision. She even self-apologized to Anole if that mean't anything.

On the other hand, yeah, she could've kept this hidden and essentially sacrificed herself. It was clear she was willing to die during IvX (yes, I know it was trash). I may be overthinking/over-analyzing but I think given her situation and the setting she was in, she still had cards to play. This calculating nature is one of the things I find most fascinating about her. I'm sure the time spent in that light room was planning her next move. This was just my 2 cents on the issue. I consider Emma an incredibly multifaceted character, so its difficult to say what she should/should've done at any given point in a story.

I do think this is a step in the right direction..ish. Its clear she isn't *the* villain. At this point that's all I can wish for as an Emma fan.

The Emma on Genosha was completely willing to die to protect her students from the blasts. She only survived because she manifested her secondary mutation. Emma will do what it takes to survive, but never at the expense of innocent mutants. She canonically felt awful about hurting an innocent mutant to save that mutant (and her own) life. Unless the next couple issues show her having a good (and I mean REALLY GOOD) excuse for handing over the vaccine, then this is a complete betrayal of the character.

[theoneandonly]

she didn't know that beast had gone AWOL with the rest of the X-MEN and must have thought that the general would be shut down by the X-MEN long before any mutants were subjected to the vaccine or the beast may able to counter it but then disassembled threw cold water over all her expectations. I wonder about how the Scott/Emma situation is resolved though. it kind of seems silly to transform emma into the Betty of the triangle pining hopelessly after Archie just because she is blonde.

[TheDeadSpace]

Hm, sorry you felt that way about the issue and her characterization in it in general. We clearly have different perceptions of the character, and for good reason. But is it really SO out of character for her to reveal the cure serum? She's been written as being a "survivor" in the past, the most notable example I can think of is Genosha. Leaking the serum was probably her means of an out, if it mean't she would survive. I imagined it being backed into a corner and end up having to make that decision. She even self-apologized to Anole if that mean't anything.

On the other hand, yeah, she could've kept this hidden and essentially sacrificed herself. It was clear she was willing to die during IvX (yes, I know it was trash). I may be overthinking/over-analyzing but I think given her situation and the setting she was in, she still had cards to play. This calculating nature is one of the things I find most fascinating about her. I'm sure the time spent in that light room was planning her next move. This was just my 2 cents on the issue. I consider Emma an incredibly multifaceted character, so its difficult to say what she should/should've done at any given point in a story.

I do think this is a step in the right direction..ish. Its clear she isn't *the* villain. At this point that's all I can wish for as an Emma fan.

I have a similar view, but I also completely understand the belief that Emma giving up the vaccine is unforgivable in terms of characterization.

[VNCTG]

The Emma on Genosha was completely willing to die to protect her students from the blasts. She only survived because she manifested her secondary mutation. Emma will do what it takes to survive, but never at the expense of innocent mutants. She canonically felt awful about hurting an innocent mutant to save that mutant (and her own) life. Unless the next couple issues show her having a good (and I mean REALLY GOOD) excuse for handing over the vaccine, then this is a complete betrayal of the character.

True, that's a very valid point. If this were during pre-DoX/IvX times, I would wholeheartedly agree. There's a bunch of panels that showed she would be willing to die for students. One of my favorite panels is actually from a Doctor Strange issue in which she tries to save Blink.
Aside from that, I don't know... I still feel this was a "necessary" move on her part and it bought her a chance. I know a lot of people are not too fond of Rosenberg's run and are just waiting for Hickman, but I think still think Rosenberg can still do good by Emma.

[myownlittleusername]

I have a similar view, but I also completely understand the belief that Emma giving up the vaccine is unforgivable in terms of characterization.

Is the vaccine ultimately such a big deal?

In the first place, things like that are generally hard to suppress, if the Beast vaccine is not used, then someone else could come up with it. Information wants to be free and all that.

Don't see it as such a big threat either. If someone wants to neutralize mutants there are many other ways, e.g. killing them works just fine without it and is harder to reverse. Converting them to mutant hunting sentinels is also an option.

Biggest problem is removing all future mutant children, but that's the choice of the parents, unless they live under a totalitarian regime that can enforce such for everyone. Looking at the many dangerous mutants out there accidentally killing people it's arguable people should have the choice if available.

[myownlittleusername]

The new Wonder Woman costume seems somewhat familiar.

https://twitter.com/PattyJenks/statu...46983680151558

https://www.newsarama.com/45462-wond...84-poster.html

[PsychoEFrost]

Is the vaccine ultimately such a big deal?

In the first place, things like that are generally hard to suppress, if the Beast vaccine is not used, then someone else could come up with it. Information wants to be free and all that.

Don't see it as such a big threat either. If someone wants to neutralize mutants there are many other ways, e.g. killing them works just fine without it and is harder to reverse. Converting them to mutant hunting sentinels is also an option.

Biggest problem is removing all future mutant children, but that's the choice of the parents, unless they live under a totalitarian regime that can enforce such for everyone. Looking at the many dangerous mutants out there accidentally killing people it's arguable people should have the choice if available.

If used to its fullest potential, it is as damaging or even more so than Scarlet Witch's "No More Mutants" curse, and should carry the same ramifications. Especially in the hands of someone who has a vested interest in seeing mutantkind annihilated.

[myownlittleusername]

If used to its fullest potential, it is as damaging or even more so than Scarlet Witch's "No More Mutants" curse, and should carry the same ramifications. Especially in the hands of someone who has a vested interest in seeing mutantkind annihilated.

Yes, but if someone has the capability to actually use the vaccine like that they are in trouble either way and must find a way to deal with it.

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Also, a bit curious that Rosenberg has Emma declaring her love to Scott again in this issue as I've gotten the impression Marvel wants to move away from this relationship these last years and you can easily interpret the letter in X-Men Black as Emma also moving on even if it did not explicitly say that.

Either he's setting her up to be further rejected at the end of the arc so he can "finally" resolve it or possibly the relationship might still be in play during Hickman's run. Or alternatively be only one-sided on Emma's part there. Well, should find out either way in six weeks. At the moment I'd bet on the first option.