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  1. #3571
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Scott meeting Xavier?
    Literally how many times has Xavier come back from the dead? Is that really necessary again?

    Emma/Jean/Scott's confrontation?
    I'm sure we'll see them interact soon enough. What should they 'confront' each other about? Jean personally encouraged him to move on from beyond the grave. With her last breath she also told him to live without her.

    Logan/Emma/Mystique death battle? Rest of team seeing the person they decried as Mutant Hitler, and the woman they threw under the bus afterwards? Jean suddenly being suicidally meek?
    Again: There is no reason Logan, Emma and Mystique would battle to the death after the last run.

    At the end of the last run all of those mutants were literally shown on-panel together united (albeit with poor writing from Rosenberg) against humanity. That is the cue for the time jump Hickman then instituted. You feel that's all invalid, and that they should've all attacked these characters unfairly bc that's what you feel the X-office does. But your personal opinion doesn't make it a fact or something they must now explore. The end of Rosenberg's run chose to rush past and dispense with all of that. Bad book? Yes. But that state of affairs you wanted to exist at the end of Uncanny didn't exist at the end of Uncanny, and won't now. That's not Hickman's problem and it's not something anyone should be expected to write to just because you're pissed and want them to re-litigate the last 5-10 shitty years of comics.

    And Jean was not "suicidally meek". She was in a no-win situation where everyone else had died and she was injured and battered in a tiny escape pod in the vacuum of space surrounded by Sentinels. Outside of fanfic there have rarely been ways out for X-Men in that scenario, a non-Phoenix Jean included.

    These are largely things you are demanding they address because of your personal take on what the X-Men books should be based on past sins. They are not relevant to anything Hickman is doing.

  2. #3572
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasy Free Me View Post
    I get and understand your point but IMO the status quo that we had was such a fucking mess that having everything solved on panel would probably take so fucking long. They will probably address bits then and there but, it was just too much to try to fix on panel space that he certainly needed to tell his story.
    Exactly. Who gives a ****? Rosenberg personally threw all that **** out in his last pages, too, before Hickman. Most of that crap has been swept aside as past mistakes have been by many other regime changes on comics before then. And how does it serve Emma, Scott or anyone else well to rehash all that?

  3. #3573
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    The last scene in Rosenberg's run kind of showed that they were all united together, even Emma looked slightly bitter about Jean and Scott. It was just a panel but it still showed them all as X-Men.

  4. #3574
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    Literally how many times has Xavier come back from the dead? Is that really necessary again?



    I'm sure we'll see them interact soon enough. What should they 'confront' each other about? Jean personally encouraged him to move on from beyond the grave. With her last breath she also told him to live without her.



    Again: There is no reason Logan, Emma and Mystique would battle to the death after the last run.

    At the end of the last run all of those mutants were literally shown on-panel together united (albeit with poor writing from Rosenberg) against humanity. That is the cue for the time jump Hickman then instituted. You feel that's all invalid, and that they should've all attacked these characters unfairly bc that's what you feel the X-office does. But your personal opinion doesn't make it a fact or something they must now explore. The end of Rosenberg's run chose to rush past and dispense with all of that. Bad book? Yes. But that state of affairs you wanted to exist at the end of Uncanny didn't exist at the end of Uncanny, and won't now. That's not Hickman's problem and it's not something anyone should be expected to write to just because you're pissed and want them to re-litigate the last 5-10 shitty years of comics.

    And Jean was not "suicidally meek". She was in a no-win situation where everyone else had died and she was injured and battered in a tiny escape pod in the vacuum of space surrounded by Sentinels. Outside of fanfic there have rarely been ways out for X-Men in that scenario, a non-Phoenix Jean included.

    These are largely things you are demanding they address because of your personal take on what the X-Men books should be based on past sins. They are not relevant to anything Hickman is doing.
    1) How many times was Scott directly responsible for his death?

    2) Because the fallout from Morrison is still felt to this day due to them not actually resolving that issue.

    3) Ignoring everything doesn't make it go away. Doing so treats the audience like a bunch of children.

    Abandoning everything written over the past ten years is EXACTLY what Hickman is currently doing, all for a status quo change that we know won't stick. If he's just going to do that, what was the point of buying any comics between 2008 and 2018 if everything is going to be ignored. It treats the reader like an entranced magpie with a wallet attached.

  5. #3575
    Extraordinary Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    1) How many times was Scott directly responsible for his death?

    2) Because the fallout from Morrison is still felt to this day due to them not actually resolving that issue.

    3) Ignoring everything doesn't make it go away. Doing so treats the audience like a bunch of children.

    Abandoning everything written over the past ten years is EXACTLY what Hickman is currently doing, all for a status quo change that we know won't stick. If he's just going to do that, what was the point of buying any comics between 2008 and 2018 if everything is going to be ignored. It treats the reader like an entranced magpie with a wallet attached.
    Well according to JDW & Hickman, enjoyment of the stories is all you need for them to matter. When people talked about AoX and Rosencanny as filler, he notes that if you liked a story, that's all that matters.

    But Ida. If events of the story had no lasting effect & is never referenced again, it was a pointless story.

  6. #3576
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    Well according to JDW & Hickman, enjoyment of the stories is all you need for them to matter. When people talked about AoX and Rosencanny as filler, he notes that if you liked a story, that's all that matters.

    But Ida. If events of the story had no lasting effect & is never referenced again, it was a pointless story.
    Exactly. It is a cardinal rule of business: don't make your customers feel like they wasted their time with your product.

  7. #3577
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Why would the Morrison drama or any of the in-fighting overshadow the fact that the mutants, at their darkest point after having experienced what their dream actually entailed (Age of X-Man) while facing the worst humanity had to offer (Rosencanny), have just been offered a way out of their cyclical suffering via Xavier’s nation? That not only is something that Cyclops would accept, but it’s something he wouldn’t fight for leadership over nor something he would throw away so he can play Betty or Veronica with Jean and Emma.

  8. #3578
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    No spoiler talk, no hints no suggestions not anything. Seriously stop.
    You brought back Wolverine

    The CBR Community Standards a.k.a how to get along.

  9. #3579
    Extraordinary Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Exactly. It is a cardinal rule of business: don't make your customers feel like they wasted their time with your product.
    Agreed. And I say this about anything. There were stories I loved, but since they had no lasting effect for the characters & just fell off the grid, it's pretty much non-canon / filler. Because it no longer matters to the character if they're written as not remembering it & like it never happened.

    And opposite, I didn't care 1 bit for Young's Deadpool. I liked Duggan's take on the character & everything he did. But when his run finally ended, he rebooted by getting rid of Wade's family & mind-wiping him. However, Young brought those things back with reference & even had some of his family appear in the last few issues. Sadly Young re-booted and had DP mind-wiped again, but it's in a position where it still matters for the character & can be brought back. Provided Thompson doesn't ignore it, then it makes Duggan's run feel relevant. It doesn't seem like six years of filler.

    Bunncanny is the perfect example of filler. I loved his run, but noting that happened in his run has come up or been referenced. Strain cured Monet after using her as a token villain in her GenX. And that was it. So even though I loved the series, it's a filler story that makes no difference in the long run. Plots didn't get closure, characters aren't effected by anything that happened. etc.
    Last edited by Silver Fang; 09-25-2019 at 06:56 AM.

  10. #3580
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    1) How many times was Scott directly responsible for his death?
    And? Scott has obsessed over that for years since.

    2) Because the fallout from Morrison is still felt to this day due to them not actually resolving that issue.
    What did they not resolve? Jean died! She told Scott to move on! He didn't pull a fast one on her like he did to Maddy, it was something she wanted. Now she's back.

    Abandoning everything written over the past ten years is EXACTLY what Hickman is currently doing, all for a status quo change that we know won't stick. If he's just going to do that, what was the point of buying any comics between 2008 and 2018 if everything is going to be ignored. It treats the reader like an entranced magpie with a wallet attached.
    Let me ask you this: What exactly would make you feel like you got your money's worth from stories you admit sucked, and which you hated?

    It is not Hickman's responsibility to rehash them when the larger audience has no interest in revisiting them, and the status quo he inherited deliberately brushed them aside in its last pages from another writer. You have been told the fallout from those stories is over, and you were told that before Hickman took over. It is not his responsibility to make you feel better about wasting your money and time on books that weren't worth it and aren't relevant to his current work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Why would the Morrison drama or any of the in-fighting overshadow the fact that the mutants, at their darkest point after having experienced what their dream actually entailed (Age of X-Man) while facing the worst humanity had to offer (Rosencanny), have just been offered a way out of their cyclical suffering via Xavier’s nation? That not only is something that Cyclops would accept, but it’s something he wouldn’t fight for leadership over nor something he would throw away so he can play Betty or Veronica with Jean and Emma.
    ^^ QFT.
    Last edited by powerpax; 09-25-2019 at 06:51 AM.

  11. #3581
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    Bunncanny is the perfect example of filler. I loved his run, but noting that happened in his run has come up or been referenced. Strain cured Monet after using her as a token villain in her GenX. And that was it. So even though I loved the series, it's a filler story that makes no difference in the long run. Plots didn't get closure, characters are effected by anything that happened. etc.
    Exactly what I've said about his run, though it's more diverting and enjoyable than some others. Ultimately, the Inhumans crap is filler as well. Same with Rosenberg's run. Nobody cares.

    Marvel made a cottage industry off producing time-wasting, nihilistic stories and runs for the X-Men which drove much of the audience away, first after Decimation in smaller cycles and then especially after AvX/Secret Wars in a much more profound way. It is acknowledged to be a bad era for the X-Men which most readers did not enjoy and are glad to be rid of. I'm sorry people bought them and feel rightly cheated out of their money, but the choice of the X-office was to wipe the slate clean of that dumb **** for Hickman for a reason.

  12. #3582
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    Also those Emma haters who used to come in her and say she only has her position because of Scott can eat their words. As Emma is a high ranking member due to her own merits here
    Not really though. What happens with her now 15 years later, doesnt negate how she rose in power during that specific era

  13. #3583

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    I love that Emma expresses all of the doubts the reader has about the whole operation when Xavier and Magneto approach her. She was convinced to help them for the sake of the children, and then she proceeded to negotiate like a boss for what her part in the government is going to be. Sure, I'll give you Shaw, but you have to give me another Queen who gets to sit on the ruling council that I get to pick myself.

    spoilers:

    I am going to say that the 2nd Queen has already been spoiled on the Internet, and it's very interesting who Emma picked.
    end of spoilers
    We are MUTANT..Krakoa, FOREVER!!! “Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité”

  14. #3584
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    I loved her "Ahem!" to Magneto. Like, bitch for real? Only 20 years?

    Emma is going to get very rich with this drug thing.

  15. #3585
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Not really though. What happens with her now 15 years later, doesnt negate how she rose in power during that specific era
    I think that this established that she's a powerful woman by herself. The rose in prominence among the X-Men is certainly in part thanks to Scott, but she's a major player politically and economically by herself.

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