Emma Frost: White Queen Appreciation 2019

[PsychoEFrost]

Seems like Emma fans really got a turn around from how dark things seemed at the beginning of the year.

I'm happy they aren't selling the bogus "always evil" narrative. But I'm worried with how cheaply the X-Men got their "win" that Emma's "redemption" won't be looked upon kindly by history, especially if Hickman's grand plan isn't well received down the line. Worst case, it could end up looking like Guggenheim shilling for Kitty.

[Killerbee911]

I liked Emma and Scott as a couple, but everything after IvX kind of made me feel that writers were making Emma into one of those women who can't live without her man and making her crazy without her man. I hated that so much because Emma was a strong character all through Generation X without needing to be defined by having a boyfriend, and in the early days of New X-Men she was still a fairly strong character without needing to be about the guy in her life.

I feel like she could use a break from Scott, I feel Jean could use a break from Scott too actually. I feel like Jean and Emma need to grow as characters without needing to be defined by whatever relationship they are in at any given time.

I think you hit on the big problem most of Emma being on X-men and on the straight and narrow seem tied to being with Scott in relationship when it was tied to teaching mutant children before. Her hero identity got too tied into the relationship with Scott while messy drama is fun. It seems some writers don't know what to do with her without the context of Cyclops. The Cyclops relationship is fine but they need to build why she is X-man outside of Scott and she needs to build ties and friendships outside of Scott. Now I don't think being current path is necessarily line of heroism she needs to go down it is too close to "evil". It is good that she is important in the X-world without Cyclops and she will be able to build ties outside of Cyclops. If they pull off this run correctly she should get the Wolverine treatment ,They might not like his methods but everyone understands he is after the same goal as them.

I think place they need to get is that majority of X-men respect her intent and they really need to emphasize that her students respect her. Something like certain X-men calling her out and her students stop them from talking mess would be the ideal.

[myownlittleusername]

From AIPT's Twitter livestream: - “She’s arguably the most powerful person on Krakoa.” - @JHickman on #EmmaFrost.

Someone on twitter put out the video where JDW and Hickman talked about this. Lacking context, maybe in response to a fan question?

https://mobile.twitter.com/poisonfro...61781125046272

Not that I understand how she controls three seats on the council. It seems doubtful that Shaw and Kitty (assuming she is Red Queen/King) would simply follow her vote instead of their own inclinations, but maybe more will be revealed regarding this yet.

[myownlittleusername]

I'm happy they aren't selling the bogus "always evil" narrative. But I'm worried with how cheaply the X-Men got their "win" that Emma's "redemption" won't be looked upon kindly by history, especially if Hickman's grand plan isn't well received down the line. Worst case, it could end up looking like Guggenheim shilling for Kitty.

X-Men hasn't really "won" anything, they've just set up a new status quo. And like all previous ones this will also have a limited shelf time, hopefully it lasts for a few years at least. As long as it allows for new, fresh stories to be told it should be fine.

Don't really see how Emma in particular was "redeemed" here either, as there was an amnesty for everyone.

For her the "redemption" basically happened before Hickman anyway, mostly because stories like IvX was ignored instead of followed up on. It's not as if the X-Men would have helped her take down the HFC in X-Men Black (or team up with her in other stories before) if they were still after her for that. Not ideal of course, but this happens all the time in Marvel comics with their high creative team turn-overs and constant relaunches.

[ETMike1988]

Someone on twitter put out the video where JDW and Hickman talked about this. Lacking context, maybe in response to a fan question?

https://mobile.twitter.com/poisonfro...61781125046272

Not that I understand how she controls three seats on the council. It seems doubtful that Shaw and Kitty (assuming she is Red Queen/King) would simply follow her vote instead of their own inclinations, but maybe more will be revealed regarding this yet.

What if Kitty is only the Red Queen, but not the Red King!? :/

[RAWRlrus]

Someone on twitter put out the video where JDW and Hickman talked about this. Lacking context, maybe in response to a fan question?

https://mobile.twitter.com/poisonfro...61781125046272

Not that I understand how she controls three seats on the council. It seems doubtful that Shaw and Kitty (assuming she is Red Queen/King) would simply follow her vote instead of their own inclinations, but maybe more will be revealed regarding this yet.

I hope they explain how the seats thing works, because it doesn't make sense to me either. There's no way Shaw is going to do what Emma says willingly, but he's still considered one of her seats. Do they actually ignore his vote? Would that me too obvious that he isn't really there for any reason?

[RachelGrey]

I hope they explain how the seats thing works, because it doesn't make sense to me either. There's no way Shaw is going to do what Emma says willingly, but he's still considered one of her seats. Do they actually ignore his vote? Would that me too obvious that he isn't really there for any reason?

I think Emma has the most political power. She handles the legal side of the international trade, she is primary CEO of the Hellfire Corporation and Shaw has just been given a seat on the board again but not the CEO position and not the Lord Imperial position. Shaw runs the black market operation and will probably try to steal legal contracts from Emma, while at the same time Emma will try to make treaties with countries that they are doing black market operations in which allows her to take over trade with that country as the legal trade and diplomatic ambassador of Krakoa.

Emma's power isn't that she has more votes, it's that she is head of the Hellfire Corporation, she has all of the legal trade contracts under her department, and she is trade and political ambassador for Krakoa to the world. Politically and Economically she is the most powerful person on Krakoa, but she still only gets one vote on the council, she just has the most influence over international trade and politics.

[Mapangahas]

What if Kitty is only the Red Queen, but not the Red King!? :/

I was thinking the same thing. Marvel has emphasized that Kitty is the Red Queen but in HOX6 it shows Red King. What is up Emma's sleeve?

[WallStreeter]

X-Men hasn't really "won" anything, they've just set up a new status quo. And like all previous ones this will also have a limited shelf time, hopefully it lasts for a few years at least. As long as it allows for new, fresh stories to be told it should be fine.

Don't really see how Emma in particular was "redeemed" here either, as there was an amnesty for everyone.

For her the "redemption" basically happened before Hickman anyway, mostly because stories like IvX was ignored instead of followed up on. It's not as if the X-Men would have helped her take down the HFC in X-Men Black (or team up with her in other stories before) if they were still after her for that. Not ideal of course, but this happens all the time in Marvel comics with their high creative team turn-overs and constant relaunches.

Certain things from the Morrison run remained permanently, like Emma becoming a prominent XMen leader. Another permanent Morrison change was that the X-Men became more than a superhero team, they truly focused on training mutant children and they became a community. Morrison era characters the Cuckoo, Quentin Quire, Martha, Ernst all became big and that paved the way for other mutant children to be introduced. Morrison era the first to show Monet as an X-Man.

[WallStreeter]

It must have been frustrating for JDW to cede to Hickman, because the current state of affairs seems far removed from JDW's ideal X-Men.

I mean, the guy said that he was Team Beast during Schism/AvX/Bendis. What sort of person could ever been Team Beast.

The politics changed once Disney bought Fox, and Hickman's work will reimagine the XMen for MCU.

[RachelGrey]

I was thinking the same thing. Marvel has emphasized that Kitty is the Red Queen but in HOX6 it shows Red King. What is up Emma's sleeve?

I think there is a chance that Kitty is going to call herself the Red King. They are already showing the outfit she is wearing is modelled more off the King's attire than the Queen's attire. She's going for a more butch look, and heck Emma called herself Black King for over a year, so it's not like Kitty has to call herself Red Queen.

There are only 3 Hellfire Seats and Gerry Dugan the writer of Marauders has confirmed that Kitty is the one who is taking the Red seat. He called her Red Queen, so I think at the time of the council meeting Emma hadn't made her pick yet and everyone assumed she was going to pick a former king of the Hellfire Club like Robert possibly to fill the seat. Kate has never sat on the Hellfire Club before, so it's going to be a surprise to everyone when Emma picks Kate to take the 3rd seat.

I do agree that it's highly possible that Charles, Erik, and Moira all anticipated that Emma would choose Kate, perhaps from future intel from one of Moira's past lives. That could also be why they gave Emma the seat without any argument because they already anticipated who she would pick.

[Maestroneto]

Red King is a red herring.

[RAWRlrus]

I think Emma has the most political power. She handles the legal side of the international trade, she is primary CEO of the Hellfire Corporation and Shaw has just been given a seat on the board again but not the CEO position and not the Lord Imperial position. Shaw runs the black market operation and will probably try to steal legal contracts from Emma, while at the same time Emma will try to make treaties with countries that they are doing black market operations in which allows her to take over trade with that country as the legal trade and diplomatic ambassador of Krakoa.

Emma's power isn't that she has more votes, it's that she is head of the Hellfire Corporation, she has all of the legal trade contracts under her department, and she is trade and political ambassador for Krakoa to the world. Politically and Economically she is the most powerful person on Krakoa, but she still only gets one vote on the council, she just has the most influence over international trade and politics.

I understand that she's powerful in part because of the Hellfire Trading Company, and I think we'll see just how apt the comparison to the East India Company is. But a major bargaining point for that was the number of seats on the council. Clearly it's important, but I'm just struggling to see how she benefits from Shaw and Kitty being "her" seats.

[ETMike1988]

Red King is a red herring.

Or the Red King is THE Red Herring.

[RachelGrey]

I understand that she's powerful in part because of the Hellfire Trading Company, and I think we'll see just how apt the comparison to the East India Company is. But a major bargaining point for that was the number of seats on the council. Clearly it's important, but I'm just struggling to see how she benefits from Shaw and Kitty being "her" seats.

Shaw isn't Emma's seat. Shaw was a requirement that Erik and Charles wanted on the council, they asked Emma to bring Shaw back in as part of the agreement. Emma doesn't want Shaw anywhere near her.

Emma negotiated to have the power to pick a sitting council member herself, her pick is Kate. I think the reason she picked Kate because Emma knows Kate won't backstab her, Kate will argue to Emma's face and won't hide things from Emma. Kate will also be just as suspicious of Shaw as Emma is. Emma doesn't mind Kate being a thorn in her own side, she appreciates that Kate will be a much bigger thorn in Shaw's side. She picked Kate because she knows Shaw will hate this pick.