Emma Frost: White Queen Appreciation 2019

[Ulfhammer]

Kelly's books don't tear up charts because all of her projects are culty things that aren't suited for the direct market. Now that she has a flagship, post first issue drop she's outselling other flagships and top writers.

And if you can get 17 issues out of a series about Hawkeye II, you must be doing something right.

I guess that begs the question of why Marvel is printing properties that serve such a small niche of the market. That's a much larger question.

Marvel has kept the Squirrel Girl, Capt. Marvel and Iceman books going or relaunched them after significant time below the historical cancellation cut off. I'm not sure we can use longevity as a good measure of success in the modern Marvel world.

[Ulfhammer]

Because SIXIS and Civil War II are the pinnacle of quality.

Exceptions to the rule simply prove the rule exists. As Snoop mentioned, events skew this effect to some extent because so many characters are involved that anyone who wants to follow a particular character end up basically having to buy the book. Marketing plays a role as well, but I think that effect is very limited after the first issue hits.

[Glio]

I guess that begs the question of why Marvel is printing properties that serve such a small niche of the market. That's a much larger question.

Marvel has kept the Squirrel Girl, Capt. Marvel and Iceman books going or relaunched them after significant time below the historical cancellation cut off. I'm not sure we can use longevity as a good measure of success in the modern Marvel world.

I understand that these comics sell well in alternative channels.

Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur is successful for example, but it does not sell well in comic stores.

[ButterRum]

When writers turn out a crappy product it doesn't sell because people can read previews or the first issue and figure it out pretty quick. That seems reflective of quality to me.

Because SIXIS and Civil War II are the pinnacle of quality.

Yeah, popularity isn't necessarily indicative of quality. A lot of a books sold have to do with hype and marketing.

[nandes]

X-Men should've been cancelled as a whole when it was flopping back in the 60's anyway lets be real

[Tycon]

Exceptions to the rule simply prove the rule exists. As Snoop mentioned, events skew this effect to some extent because so many characters are involved that anyone who wants to follow a particular character end up basically having to buy the book. Marketing plays a role as well, but I think that effect is very limited after the first issue hits.

It would definitely help to have numbers behind me, but I could say the same about X-Men Red and Gold. Even though one was.....clearly better than the other, comparing Gold’s issues to Red, the former was always selling more.

[ButterRum]

There's a theory for that, courtesy of my old geometry teacher.

He worked at an inner city school in Kansas City. His rule for breaking up the common fights was simple:

1) If it's two guys, you let them wail on each other for around three minutes, then break it up. They're usually fine after that. Obviously step in if one of them is getting completely pasted.

2) If it's two girls, you call the police. He once saw girl A look at girl B's guy. Girl B and her friends held Girl A to the ground, Girl B took out a razor and slapped Girl A's inner thighs with it (she was wearing a skirt). Nearly killed her.

Scott and Logan are frienemies. They don't like each other most of the time, but they can work together and maybe hit the bar afterwards.

Jean and Emma are two wet cats in a sack that will only tolerate each other if the world is at stake (which it kind of was during Jeen's solo).

That is a really sexist and inaccurate analysis of two guys vs two girls. If I recall correctly it was Wolverine and Cyclops that started a schism in X-Men and went to war against each other and caused a lot of drama. But your kind of thinking is probably why it's been so difficult for Marvel to get Emma and Jean in a book together. The media just has trouble handling female relationships.

[RachelGrey]

That is a really sexist and inaccurate analysis of two guys vs two girls. If I recall correctly it was Wolverine and Cyclops that started a schism in X-Men and went to war against each other and caused a lot of drama. But your kind of thinking is probably why it's been so difficult for Marvel to get Emma and Jean in a book together. The media just has trouble handling female relationships.

I saw hints of a proper female almost friendship at the tail end of Jean Grey when Ghost Jean and Emma were actually starting to get along with each other to protect Jeen. I would have loved it if they had continued it by having Emma be a recurring ally in Red, not necessarily a core character, but someone who comes to help out in X-Men Red from time to time. This would have laid down the foundation for Emma and Jean to put a lot of their animosity behind them.

But as you said, most of the writers are male, and they couldn't write a female friendship if their lives depended on it.

[ButterRum]

I saw hints of a proper female almost friendship at the tail end of Jean Grey when Ghost Jean and Emma were actually starting to get along with each other to protect Jeen. I would have loved it if they had continued it by having Emma be a recurring ally in Red, not necessarily a core character, but someone who comes to help out in X-Men Red from time to time. This would have laid down the foundation for Emma and Jean to put a lot of their animosity behind them.

But as you said, most of the writers are male, and they couldn't write a female friendship if their lives depended on it.

I don't think Jean's politics in Red would have been agreeable with Emma but yeah Emma or Jean being a reluctant ally for either of them would have been cool.

[Havok83]

I saw hints of a proper female almost friendship at the tail end of Jean Grey when Ghost Jean and Emma were actually starting to get along with each other to protect Jeen. I would have loved it if they had continued it by having Emma be a recurring ally in Red, not necessarily a core character, but someone who comes to help out in X-Men Red from time to time. This would have laid down the foundation for Emma and Jean to put a lot of their animosity behind them.

But as you said, most of the writers are male, and they couldn't write a female friendship if their lives depended on it.

Emma and Jean should NEVER be friends. Teammates is one thing...friends? Heck no. It has nothing to do with most writers being male. The two dont like each other for good reason and in the real world would have nothing to do with each other

[Gamall]

I don't think they should be friends. Same for Scott and Logan. Want to explore the topic of same-sex friendship? Fine. Then find characters that don't bother each other.

[comeatmebro]

Scott and Logan should be friends

[Tycon]

Not to mention that Jean now has memories of her being mentored by Emma and remaining friends during her formative years. Even with the Morrison stuff, that should change up their dynamic at least a little bit.

[Gamall]

Scott and Logan should be friends

No one starts to be friends with the person who wanted to initiate an affair with your wife. And you would immediately run away from a friend who doubted you, doesn't understand you, betrayed you, and fighting against you. They can respect each other, but this is not a friendship.

[PsychoEFrost]

That is a really sexist and inaccurate analysis of two guys vs two girls. If I recall correctly it was Wolverine and Cyclops that started a schism in X-Men and went to war against each other and caused a lot of drama. But your kind of thinking is probably why it's been so difficult for Marvel to get Emma and Jean in a book together. The media just has trouble handling female relationships.

It's not sexist at all. The two most brutal fights I've seen in person were both two girls trying to kill each other.

Overwhelmingly, guys will go to blows quickly, but will get over it just as quickly. By the time it gets to violence between two girls, there's no turning back.

It has nothing to do with the ability to write a female friendship. Emma and adult Jean despise one another, and have since the moment they met. While they are capable of working together if the world is at stake because they're both semi-heroic functioning adults and not say Namor, they aren't capable of being friends.