Emma Frost: White Queen Appreciation 2019

[Maestroneto]

Emma being a dancer was first revealed in Morrison’s run. But on the same page where that was revealed, it was also stated she manipulated Shaw and that they were each other’s equals.

[ButterRum]

Emma being a dancer was first revealed in Morrison’s run. But on the same page where that was revealed, it was also stated she manipulated Shaw and that they were each other’s equals.

Yeah, I was gonna say, one could make the argument that the stripper thing started with Shaw. But it didn't say she was a stripper though. It said she was a dancer who needed to perform in front of the HFC....? Couldn't that be anything?

And you are right -- she said Shaw mistook her for love, and then in the next chapter, Shaw says that Emma screwed her over. Not the other way around. And previous canon supported this since Emma, Magneto, and Selene voted Shaw out of the club after they found out he was funding Sentinels.

Honestly the stripper thing didn't even bother me until they started writing that she got an invite to the HFC BECAUSE she was a stripper and not for her business talents as stated in the OHOTMU. Jfc.

[PsychoEFrost]

Yeah, I was gonna say, one could make the argument that the stripper thing started with Shaw. But it didn't say she was a stripper though. It said she was a dancer who needed to perform in front of the HFC....? Couldn't that be anything?

And you are right -- she said Shaw mistook her for love, and then in the next chapter, Shaw says that Emma screwed her over. Not the other way around. And previous canon supported this since Emma, Magneto, and Selene voted Shaw out of the club after they found out he was funding Sentinels.

Honestly the stripper thing didn't even bother me until they started writing that she got an invite to the HFC BECAUSE she was a stripper and not for her business talents as stated in the OHOTMU. Jfc.

The stripper thing was always left ambiguous, since we didn't know what to use with the Emma Frost one-shot or the Emma Frost solo series. Williams didn't want to use it, according to her Tumblr, but tried to put enough of her own spin on it for it to be tolerable. I don't like it, but editorial wasn't going to let Williams undo it.

[ButterRum]

The stripper thing was always left ambiguous, since we didn't know what to use with the Emma Frost one-shot or the Emma Frost solo series. Williams didn't want to use it, according to her Tumblr, but tried to put enough of her own spin on it for it to be tolerable. I don't like it, but editorial wasn't going to let Williams undo it.

The stripper thing was not ambiguous until the one-shot and the Fraction retcons. Also in Deadly Genesis she was actually shown as a stripper. .

Link to the tumblr where she says she didn't want to use it.

[Maestroneto]

The stripper thing was always left ambiguous, since we didn't know what to use with the Emma Frost one-shot or the Emma Frost solo series. Williams didn't want to use it, according to her Tumblr, but tried to put enough of her own spin on it for it to be tolerable. I don't like it, but editorial wasn't going to let Williams undo it.

If Williams didn't want to use it, why did she say long before writing that one-shot that Emma only lit Butter Rum on fire because Shaw was a bad father figure? That suggests an unequal, domineering relationship and makes Emma a victim.

[ButterRum]

It doesn't make any sense that the line "you plucked me off the stripper pole and put me to work all those years" was editorially mandated. That's absurd.

I'd like to see proof where the writer says this was editorially mandated.

[PsychoEFrost]

It doesn't make any sense that the line "you plucked me off a pole" was editorially mandated. That's absurd.

I'd like to see proof where the writer says this was editorially mandated.

Jordan White prefers her history as a stripper and horse burner. He doesn't see her as anything else. Williams defended her use of it, and clearly didn't like it, but she's also not dumb enough to directly contradict her editor on social media.

[ButterRum]

Jordan White prefers her history as a stripper and horse burner. He doesn't see her as anything else. Williams defended her use of it, and clearly didn't like it, but she's also not dumb enough to directly contradict her editor on social media.

Again, where was any of this said? Proof or it didn't happen.

And JDW has said on his twitter he liked old school Emma. That's before the stripper retcon.

[PsychoEFrost]

Again, where was any of this said? Proof or it didn't happen.

And JDW has said on his twitter he liked old school Emma. That's before the stripper retcon.

He liked the Emma that set dogs on innocent people, burned horses, and tortured people for giggles, that isn't better.

https://graphicpolicy.com/2018/08/26...-men-and-more/

Here is where she mentions her love of it. The stripper part is added as a throwaway at the end, leading me to believe it was editorially mandated. I could be wrong, but Williams seems to have a good grasp of the character.

[ButterRum]

He liked the Emma that set dogs on innocent people, burned horses, and tortured people for giggles, that isn't better.

https://graphicpolicy.com/2018/08/26...-men-and-more/

Here is where she mentions her love of it. The stripper part is added as a throwaway at the end, leading me to believe it was editorially mandated. I could be wrong, but Williams seems to have a good grasp of the character.

What? This interview doesn't suggest anything you said she said about the stripper retcon:

GP: I like that because people have been talking about the J. Scott Campbell cover for your one-shot.

LW: Exactly. People are gonna pick up this book who don’t know anything about Emma Frost and are picking it up because she looks sexy on the cover. But what you’re gonna get is an intense character study.

So, it was reading the original solo miniseries with her and learning her background and how she set out on her own, the tragic family dynamic, and she was a stripper. All of it. I love it.

From the sounds of it it looks like she's a fairly new fan and got into Emma Frost from comics of the past decade. Welp, that explains why the Shaw and stripper thing was a huge part of Black.

[mogwen]

Again, where was any of this said? Proof or it didn't happen.

And JDW has said on his twitter he liked old school Emma. That's before the stripper retcon.

Old school Emma? Like villain Emma?
Because "old school" depends a lot. My prefered Emma is during the Whedon run, for exemple. Is it Old school Emma?

[ButterRum]

Old school Emma? Like villain Emma?
Because "old school" depends a lot. My prefered Emma is during the Whedon run, for exemple. Is it Old school Emma?

Old school is always 80s Hellfire Club Emma.

Well, I loved old school Emma. She was unapologetic and pragmatic. Just... a bit abrasive and evil. It's an important part of her character history. I do prefer her as a hero though. I would say my favorite is Generation X Emma. It was the best balance of her. But I also loved her in Morrison's, Whedon's, and that 2nd series of the New X-Men run so, basically, 2002-2007 was a great Emma run. There were plenty of writers who wrote her well during that time, and it wasn't just Whedon. Bendis wrote an excellent Emma in House of M. The writers of the 2nd series of New X-Men did too.

[PsychoEFrost]

Old school is always 80s Hellfire Club Emma.

Well, I loved old school Emma. She was unapologetic and pragmatic. Just... a bit abrasive and evil. It's an important part of her character history.

It is, as is her redemption. But White completely ignores that part. I know the old Clairemont stories, but I started with Gen X. Ignoring everything after Clairemont is insulting.

[Maestroneto]

I don't understand the assumption that JDW's opinions are akin to editorial edicts.

X-Men Black depicted Emma and Magneto a lot more sympathetic than the Paniccia-era books that came right before them did.

[PsychoEFrost]

I don't understand the assumption that JDW's opinions are akin to editorial edicts.

X-Men Black depicted Emma and Magneto a lot more sympathetic than the Paniccia-era books that came right before them did.

Because Emma's treatment in main X-books has only gotten worse since JDW took charge.