Emma Frost: White Queen Appreciation 2019

[Omega Alpha]

Yeah, Claremont and Morrison had them as equals, and Emma screwing him over eventually; Shaw even says he thought she was in love with him, but was wrong Then came Fraction with that ridiculous Namor story and then Leah Williams; amazing how two younger and allegedly more progressive writers can be more sexist and regressive than the older white men writing in the 80's and in the beginning of the century, both of whom men that begun their careers in even more sexist times.

[Silver Fang]

I think Claremont was ahead of his time. I still wish he'd gotten to do the original story of Mystique being Kurt's father. Him being the product of her first love whom she lost could've added more dynamic to their relationship. But Comics' Code wouldn't allow that, and before it would've been ok, we had Austen come along & retcon Azazel into Mystique's history. At least I think Azazel was one of Austen's messes.

Getting back to Emma, I assume the retcons were to make her more "sympathetic" if she were a victim. But all that did was take away her agency, influence, and power. Then plays on the tired trope "Women are bad because men make them." lol Plus Emma was a very successful & popular character already. The retcon was not needed. But all I can think of is they thought a victimized backstory would make her more sympathetic, and less evil, if she had less agency.

Flip-flopping again, the SAME thing was done with Mystique. We got her (retconned) backstory with Creed in his mini series. She was undercover, impersonated Zauber, screwed Creed when they hauled up in a safe house, then left him & faked her death by leaving behind the real Zauber's body. Along comes Austen where Mystique is a poor beggar woman who lost everything, runs into Creed at his campsite and has to beg for food, then has to sleep with him afterwards. She travels with him as a stowaway on a ship and is terrified of him. Then it's implied she starts manipulating him as a way to survive before she double-crosses him, thus "making her evil" / "taking away her innocence."

They need to stop doing this. lol

[comeatmebro]

jDW needs to keep Leah Williams away from Emma Frost and all X-Books

[Omega Alpha]

jDW needs to keep Leah Williams away from Emma Frost and all X-Books

She thinks Emma and Monet would be a cool couple, so it's pretty clear she's not someone that puts too much thought in stuff like this. She should stay as far away from the two of them as possible.

[Silver Fang]

She thinks Emma and Monet would be a cool couple, so it's pretty clear she's not someone that puts too much thought in stuff like this. She should stay as far away from the two of them as possible.

I think this is the same LW that thinks she & Jean would be great friends. Yeah, Jean becoming besties with the woman who screwed her husband just to get over on her.

I am not crazy about Leah Williams as a writer. And honestly, her personality comes off very abrasive as well.

[ExodusCloak]

Claremont originallg had her as Shaws underling "As you say shaw". Emma had to grow as a person and double cross him.

[Omega Alpha]

I think this is the same LW that thinks she & Jean would be great friends. Yeah, Jean becoming besties with the woman who screwed her husband just to get over on her.

I am not crazy about Leah Williams as a writer. And honestly, her personality comes off very abrasive as well.

Yeah, she seems the kinda of writer that is not that deep and will just do stuff that looks cool, even if it's bad for the characters and/or makes no sense. "Emma & Jean should be friends because...WOMEN!FEMINISM!SCREW CYCLOPS!"; "Emma and Monet should be TOTALLY a couple because they're SEXY SASSY BITCHES, never mind they're both straight and M was Emma's student for years when she as a minor". . Meh...

[Silver Fang]

Yeah, she seems the kinda of writer that is not that deep and will just do stuff that looks cool, even if it's bad for the characters and/or makes no sense. "Emma & Jean should be friends because...WOMEN!FEMINISM!SCREW CYCLOPS!"; "Emma and Monet should be TOTALLY a couple because they're SEXY SASSY BITCHES, never mind they're both straight and M was Emma's student for years when she as a minor". . Meh...

Well these days, given how writers just bounce around with whatever, I can't even count sexual orientation. Iceman was straight for years, until it was decided he wasn't. And that kind of change is accepted because some gay people come out later in life, so it's not seen as a retcon when it's done.

In the Buffy fandom, Willow is still subject for debate. She had a crush on Xander for years, admits to having a crush on Giles, then fell in love & lost her virginity to Oz. Now along comes Tara, and Willow's "gay now." Then it's taken a step further in the comics where she's anti-penis. While under the thrall of a male demon, Buffy reminds her he has a penis and willow replies that she can "work with it." There are many who accept she's gay, and others who will always believe she should've been bisexual at best.

So someone could come along & decide that Monet should be gay. Or that Emma should be bisexual. Mystique's greatest love was a woman, and yet we've never seen her with another woman. If they'd stop rehashing that forced romance with Sabretooth and actually pay attention to character depth & proper characterization, we could be getting something better. lol

[Omega Alpha]

Well these days, given how writers just bounce around with whatever, I can't even count sexual orientation. Iceman was straight for years, until it was decided he wasn't. And that kind of change is accepted because some gay people come out later in life, so it's not seen as a retcon when it's done.

In the Buffy fandom, Willow is still subject for debate. She had a crush on Xander for years, admits to having a crush on Giles, then fell in love & lost her virginity to Oz. Now along comes Tara, and Willow's "gay now." Then it's taken a step further in the comics where she's anti-penis. While under the thrall of a male demon, Buffy reminds her he has a penis and willow replies that she can "work with it." There are many who accept she's gay, and others who will always believe she should've been bisexual at best.

So someone could come along & decide that Monet should be gay. Or that Emma should be bisexual. Mystique's greatest love was a woman, and yet we've never seen her with another woman.

Iceman was already hinted for a long time that was gay and was subject to speculation; some writers even said they've thought of him as gay (Mike Carey, for example). Monet is younger and I suppose wouldn't be absurd for her to discover herself as bi or even gay, since she never had that serious of a relationship as an adult, but Emma is a different case, and she strikes me as too competitive to have that sort of relationship with a woman. And, more importantly, the teacher-student, with the latter as a minor, would make this relationship inevitably creepy.

[Silver Fang]

Iceman was already hinted for a long time that was gay and was subject to speculation; some writers even said they've thought of him as gay (Mike Carey, for example). Monet is younger and I suppose wouldn't be absurd for her to discover herself as bi or even gay, since she never had that serious of a relationship as an adult, but Emma is a different case, and she strikes me as too competitive to have that sort of relationship with a woman. And, more importantly, the teacher-student, with the latter as a minor, would make this relationship inevitably creepy.

Marvel doesn't seem to think much with age. When a writer has their eye on a ship, they will sale it if the plug doesn't get pulled.

• KittyLossus started when she was 14, and he was at least 18 if not older.
• Warpath was a teenager when he first worked with Domino, who was a big sis or mother figure. Now they're shagging.
• RogueNeto was very controversial due to age.
• He lost the characters, but had they stayed Bunn was gonna be doing Creed x Monet. That was controversial for many reasons. lol But thankfully for non-shippers the plug was pulled & it's unlikely to be brought up again.

So I don't think the teacher / student deal would stop anyone who wanted to make that happen. But really Monet never seemed crazy about Emma, so if she were to date a woman, I can't see it being her. I have to agree with Emma. She seems 100% straight. I could see her playing gay if she had to for the sake of a goal.

I honestly am starting to think all the pairings besides Rogue x Gambit will take a pause and it'll be the amicable business relations & friendships that may get focus while everything is getting reestablished. Then the romance drama will come with time. lol

[comeatmebro]

Yeah, she seems the kinda of writer that is not that deep and will just do stuff that looks cool, even if it's bad for the characters and/or makes no sense. "Emma & Jean should be friends because...WOMEN!FEMINISM!SCREW CYCLOPS!"; "Emma and Monet should be TOTALLY a couple because they're SEXY SASSY BITCHES, never mind they're both straight and M was Emma's student for years when she as a minor". . Meh...

yeah, I am not a fan of any of her comic book writing, her twitter personality or her interviews

[Omega Alpha]

Marvel doesn't seem to think much with age. When a writer has their eye on a ship, they will sale it if the plug doesn't get pulled.

• KittyLossus started when she was 14, and he was at least 18 if not older.
• Warpath was a teenager when he first worked with Domino, who was a big sis or mother figure. Now they're shagging.
• RogueNeto was very controversial due to age.
• He lost the characters, but had they stayed Bunn was gonna be doing Creed x Monet. That was controversial for many reasons. lol But thankfully for non-shippers the plug was pulled & it's unlikely to be brought up again.

So I don't think the teacher / student deal would stop anyone who wanted to make that happen. But really Monet never seemed crazy about Emma, so if she were to date a woman, I can't see it being her. I have to agree with Emma. She seems 100% straight. I could see her playing gay if she had to for the sake of a goal.

I honestly am starting to think all the pairings besides Rogue x Gambit will take a pause and it'll be the amicable business relations & friendships that may get focus while everything is getting reestablished. Then the romance drama will come with time. lol

Besides all these instances being weird and creepy, the thing about student/teacher is not just age, but the difference of power and the influence the teacher has as an authority figure over the student (likewise, if they were not teacher/student, but there was a clear power imbalance, like Kurt with Rachel, since when they met Kurt was the X-men and later Excalibur leader and she was in her early teens). Marvel could do it, but it would be creepy, wrong and would cause uproar. If the student is already an adult or at least legally speaking one when they meet (say, someone like Tempus, who was 19, or Hijack, who was 30, when they joined) maybe could work (and it's a big maybe), but as a kid/teenager is just wrong.

[Tycon]

The M-Twins were Emma's students, not really Monet.

[xhx23x]

The M-Twins were Emma's students, not really Monet.

I really wish more people would remember this whenever their relationship or lack thereof is brought up.

If anything Monet would remember how Emma treated her as Penance.

[Tycon]

I really wish more people would remember this whenever their relationship or lack thereof is brought up.

If anything Monet would remember how Emma treated her as Penance.

Yeah, Monet's relationship with Emma when she came back from being Penance was much more co-worker(esque) than an actual student/teacher bond. I don't even ship them but a lot of Monet's relationships get based on stuff she wasn't really around for, not just Emma but a lot of the Gen Xers in general