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  1. #2641
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0d View Post
    spoilers:
    When in the early 90's Gambit behaved in any way like this though? He had a certain aura of mystery and danger around him but nothing remotely close to this, he never attacked common people in the street no matter how offensive that people were. He's been with the X-men for ages, he's used to dealing with angry crowds, and throwing charged objects at them is not how he would act.
    This is like a new version of Gambit, one that is only capable of having two emotions, concern and anger. That's all, he is entire personality has been reduced to that, which is incredibly disappointing.
    With Rogue waking up there might be small ray of hope for the future but at this point I'm not sure I have the will to keep reading this mess of a book.
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    I can think of a couple of incidents where he was a bit irrational and showed some temper. During Legionquest when he gets in an argument with Cable - though he outright tells Rogue he feels stupid about losing his cool later. During his tussle with Joseph after X-Men 45 but pre-Trial of Gambit when they fight over Joseph hanging out by Rogue's window. That was all around stupid. And when he storms off after Xavier is being unreasonable and overtraining them. There's also the time on Utopia while he's still having trouble with the Death persona, where he freaks out on Cyclops for sending Rogue out alone. But yeah, notably none of these were against humans. In fact, he's very restrained in X-Men #45 in the bar scene when he's tracking down Rogue and Iceman and the humans are threatening them and acting like bigots.
    end of spoilers

  2. #2642
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    spoilers:
    I can think of a couple of incidents where he was a bit irrational and showed some temper. During Legionquest when he gets in an argument with Cable - though he outright tells Rogue he feels stupid about losing his cool later. During his tussle with Joseph after X-Men 45 but pre-Trial of Gambit when they fight over Joseph hanging out by Rogue's window. That was all around stupid. And when he storms off after Xavier is being unreasonable and overtraining them. There's also the time on Utopia while he's still having trouble with the Death persona, where he freaks out on Cyclops for sending Rogue out alone. But yeah, notably none of these were against humans. In fact, he's very restrained in X-Men #45 in the bar scene when he's tracking down Rogue and Iceman and the humans are threatening them and acting like bigots.
    end of spoilers
    Though I will add, he does have rather overdramatic moments in the '93 miniseries.

  3. #2643
    Ready to roll out! R0d's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    spoilers:
    But yeah, notably none of these were against humans. In fact, he's very restrained in X-Men #45 in the bar scene when he's tracking down Rogue and Iceman and the humans are threatening them and acting like bigots.
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:

    Yeah that's my point maybe I didn't express it well enough, he's literally attacking regular humans with charged objects. Am I supposed to believe that no one got hurt? They were mean people but the X-men should be above that, leading by example and not sinking to their level. This is all the more jarring considering X-men Red already showed how he would act in a similar situation.
    Even dumber is that he is doing it in the front Buckingham palace with all the press to record it, Gambit is way smarter than that, he is acting like an idiot for no reason. A well written Gambit would sneak into the palace and show up in the middle of Betsy's meeting surprising everyone.
    end of spoilers

    Going from Mr & Mrs X which was getting better and better with every issue, to this mess is like going from driving a Ferrari to driving a soviet Lada from the 70s, it's so disappointing,

  4. #2644
    Extraordinary Member Purplevit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0d View Post
    spoilers:

    Yeah that's my point maybe I didn't express it well enough, he's literally attacking regular humans with charged objects. Am I supposed to believe that no one got hurt? They were mean people but the X-men should be above that, leading by example and not sinking to their level. This is all the more jarring considering X-men Red already showed how he would act in a similar situation.
    Even dumber is that he is doing it in the front Buckingham palace with all the press to record it, Gambit is way smarter than that, he is acting like an idiot for no reason. A well written Gambit would sneak into the palace and show up in the middle of Betsy's meeting surprising everyone.
    end of spoilers

    Going from Mr & Mrs X which was getting better and better with every issue, to this mess is like going from driving a Ferrari to driving a soviet Lada from the 70s, it's so disappointing,
    Lol, soviet Lada from 70s just killed me

  5. #2645
    Spectacular Member Foon4000's Avatar
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    spoilers:

    I’m kinda worried next issue will be Rogue worrying about Gambit now that he’s fallen into a druid hole.
    end of spoilers

  6. #2646
    Incredible Member DearMachine's Avatar
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    I was disappointed to wake up with a bad cold, and have to work from home today, since my FLCS is across the road from my office building. Reading these takes makes me feel less bad about waiting a day or two, because everything seems to fall flat in it. I think that's what is making me the angriest about this book. There are so many opportunities for cool interpersonal moments, and Howard is missing them due to her lack of knowledge about the characters.

    If it was MMX, I would have already bought the book from Comixology, but I'm not double-buying Excalibur for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Foon4000 View Post
    spoilers:

    I’m kinda worried next issue will be Rogue worrying about Gambit now that he’s fallen into a druid hole.
    end of spoilers
    Don't put that evil on us. (But you know that will happen....)

  7. #2647
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    I agree on that R0d! I want MMX back.

    And I echo your sentiments DearMachine ... so much for that blue team magic.

    And honestly, Foon ... after how she acted in Issue #1, I could probably stand to see some of that from Rogue. LOL Mostly kidding ... mostly ...

    I do feel like I need to say something nice after being such a grouch. I DO love the art. Remy looks good, even if he often sounds like an idiot. And To does a mean dragon. And the colors are dreamy.

    I would love to see a huge payoff in #5 for all this nonsense that totally makes me eat my unhappy words. Magic eightball says: unlikely.

  8. #2648
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    Overall I'm still missing the tone or feeling that Tini is looking to capture. It's not only disjointed in pace and plot. The flow concerning tone also changes. With many of the other comics I get a feeling. In some cases like Maruaders it's not really my thing. Yet it's there. Here it's a mess to be honest.

    Sometimes you get a feel for what the comic could be. Sometimes what it should be. These are not the same thing with worries me a bit. I can't see beyond the purely academic ambitions Tini has. What is she trying to write? Is she happy with the end product? It's reception?

    Gambit is really bad the first pages. He is mostly page filler later on. Where is his pretty much everything that makes him a character? His wit, agility, charm, jokes? Even his powers, as I have stated before and will continue to do so, feels empty. It's mostyl there to fill out the page without affecting anything much.

    Rogue will probably do some things next issue. Personally I wouldn't mind if she punched Apoc and had some biting remarks towards Betsy. Alas one can dream.

    As of now I wouldn't mind if Rogue took over the leadership of this titel for a while. I know it probably negates the whole future plot of this comic but it would be much more fun to read.

    EDIT: I recently reread my issues of Red and started reading Taylors All-New Wolverine. He is good with dialouge and characters. I never gave him enough credit for that when he still was with Marvel. Overall his gambit is fun and damn his powers actually have impact on the story and the explosions are great in art!

    EDIT2: Asrar draws a very good Jean!
    Last edited by Malachi; 12-18-2019 at 11:03 AM.

  9. #2649

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    On the plus side at least the book is looking a bit more like a team book instead of a Betsy solo

  10. #2650
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    Morning Lego!

    I read it early before I left for work this morning. I remain fairly un-wowed, but at least the ending promises of a better issue #5? My unfiltered thoughts at 7 am ...

    spoilers:
    So going past the preview which had at least one little sweet moment, we get Remy acting out on a crowd of mutant bigots? Ehhhhh. As if he's never delt with an angry crowd or been under extreme pressure before? What exactly did this accomplish for moving the story forward or building on his character? We've seen the human protests enough to get the idea. And ok, catching the thrown bottle was perfect and badass. However, him then flying off the handle over a thrown bottle? It doesn't track. It's not his usual demeanor in modern comics. This just made me grow more weary of his single-mindedness, which is going a bit beyond devotion and grief at this point. I mean, YES ... Tini is REALLY driving home his love for Rogue. Which would be great if she could let him be capable of talking about anything else for 3 issues straight or maybe doing something to solve it. He's a character that isn't treated well by most writers and actively disliked by plenty of fans. This isn't helping that. I thought surely during his one-on-one with Rictor they'd have some deep conversation or Remy could have a chance to shine at something ... anything? Nope. The dialogue isn't that interesting frankly. It moves the plot forward-ish, but we get no insights into what either of these emotionally overwrought gentlemen are going through. I'm sorry, but I want some dang exposition here. Even if that's currently out of vogue.

    And of course, nothing to acknowledge the Asmsus run or the fact Pete Wisdom and Gambit have worked together before. I get that it's a solo from 7 years ago and that not every writer has time for extensive character homework ... but it's relevant to this subject matter and really this character cast isn't all that big. I'm fairly sure it's in the damn wiki. I'm getting the feeling Tini hasn't read a lot of modern Gambit and is relying heavily on the early 90's to inform the character. Maybe, maybe not. But surely she read the MMX run immediately before this at the very least? If so, it's not coming through very well.

    Everything else with Betsy and Akkaba and Jubilee and Meggan and "A" ... didn't add a lot of insight for me, but nudged the plot forward in a not overly exciting fashion. Thought we'd see a cute Shogo and Maggie interaction? Nope. Thought we'd see Betsy do anything besides talk and get frustrated? Nope. Confused about Jubilee calling Remy fragile after all her own carrying on over Shogo and then her punching Jaime for being gross at Meggan? Yeah, me too. So far 4 issues in my favorite characters that are currently conscious are feeling off and disappointing.

    All I can say is thank God Rogue freaking wakes up at the end and it looks like we're finally going to get this showdown on the road already.
    end of spoilers
    Evening AppleJ!

    It's closer to the end of the day and I've reread and I'm still disappointed. I was excited to see Gambit leveraged for his thieving abilities, but there was nothing strategic, elegant or event smart about it. In MMX, he wasn't always fully aware of what he was stealing but at least he wasn't fooled by decoys. In Asmus' Kind of Thieves story (YES! I FINALLY READ Asmus' 17 issues), there were moments of "whoops", but Gambit always prevailed in the end. And I remember reading that Tini liked how Rictor and Gambit played off one another. I thought there would be some solid dialogue between them, but it felt so dry in my opinion (and I was so excited). I liked that they worked together, but fell short for me.

    Okay...perhaps I'm not the best with following fantasy/magic storylines, but what did "A" mean when he told Rogue "But we know better. We have been working since the beginning...Haven't we?" Is this at all connected to the first issue that when Gambit wants to get it on or discuss building a home with Rogue, she says "If I'm being honest, I was lookin' forward to gettin' back to work." That "WORK" word has been really confusing to me. What word did Rogue want to get back to? Does this mean Rogue was in cahoots with "A" prior to being "tricked" into becoming a flower? I really hope not, especially given Gambit's history with him. I'm reading too much into it, aren't I?
    Last edited by LegoLiz; 12-18-2019 at 03:18 PM.

  11. #2651
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    This wouldn't be so bad if I felt the threat was credible. But right now I feel like this team is struggling against enemies that X-men trainees would wipe the floor with. And the missions they are being sent on are boring and lack any sort of intelligence.

    Oh I need a master thief and a master of earth but hey let's have the druids just freely give up the prize. Oh Rictor is one of us so let's recruit him by trying to kill the guy he came with. Just doesn't make a whole lot of sense and reads more like a fan fic someone put together on a long plane ride rather than intelligent fiction from a professional writer.

    Honestly, if I picked 5 random posters on the X-boards, I feel like they could handle better the stuff that has been thrown at this team. This grand idea of mutant magic is being executed in the most mundane of ways.
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

  12. #2652
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegoLiz View Post
    Evening AppleJ!

    It's closer to the end of the day and I've reread and I'm still disappointed. I was excited to see Gambit leveraged for his thieving abilities, but there was nothing strategic, elegant or event smart about it. In MMX, he wasn't always fully aware of what he was stealing but at least he wasn't fooled by decoys. In Asmus' Kind of Thieves story (YES! I FINALLY READ Asmus' 17 issues), there were moments of "whoops", but Gambit always prevailed in the end. And I remember reading that Tini liked how Rictor and Gambit played off one another. I thought there would be some solid dialogue between them, but it felt so dry in my opinion (and I was so excited). I liked that they worked together, but fell short for me.

    Okay...perhaps I'm not the best with following fantasy/magic storylines, but what did "A" mean when he told Rogue "But we know better. We have been working since the beginning...Haven't we?" Is this at all connected to the first issue that when Gambit wants to get it on or discuss building a home with Rogue, she says "If I'm being honest, I was lookin' forward to gettin' back to work." That "WORK" word has been really confusing to me. What word did Rogue want to get back to? Does this mean Rogue was in cahoots with "A" prior to being "tricked" into becoming a flower? I really hope not, especially given Gambit's history with him. I'm reading too much into it, aren't I?
    Woo! Did you enjoy the Asmus run? It might just be my favorite solo for him, though the '99 is also up there.

    Hmmm, I didn't take it as Rogue having been in the know this whole time. I think he's just 3rd personing Rogue into the conversation ... kind of like when you speak for your pet? LOL It's the royal we? That or A has multiple personalities. I saw a Twitter post from Tini mentioning how Rogue will not be pleased to wake up and find she has been used.

    Thus far the character with the most agency is A. He's the only character that seems to know what's actually going on and is totally manipulating everyone around him.

    Remy is more on to A's agenda than anyone and I'm assuming that is the true reason he was sent with Rictor - to keep him occupied elsewhere or even take him out so that A could use Rogue's situation to his advantage. She and Rictor are just parts of this magical weapon he's building via the lighthouse.

  13. #2653
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    IMG_20191219_105040.jpg

    So, THIS can't bode well?

  14. #2654
    Twitter: @theprattlp donpricetag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0d View Post
    spoilers:

    Yeah that's my point maybe I didn't express it well enough, he's literally attacking regular humans with charged objects. Am I supposed to believe that no one got hurt? They were mean people but the X-men should be above that, leading by example and not sinking to their level. This is all the more jarring considering X-men Red already showed how he would act in a similar situation.
    Even dumber is that he is doing it in the front Buckingham palace with all the press to record it, Gambit is way smarter than that, he is acting like an idiot for no reason. A well written Gambit would sneak into the palace and show up in the middle of Betsy's meeting surprising everyone.
    end of spoilers

    Going from Mr & Mrs X which was getting better and better with every issue, to this mess is like going from driving a Ferrari to driving a soviet Lada from the 70s, it's so disappointing,
    You got to remember the type of people writing a lot of Marvel's books. A lot of Marvel's current crop think it's ok to attack people they don't agree with and rejoice when people they don't like fall on hard times. There's a real lack of empathy in our culture today. It bleeds over into the books, especially with the lack of proper editorial oversight.
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  15. #2655
    Fantastic Member Nox Noctes's Avatar
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    Not sure if this was posted before?

    https://www.polygon.com/2019/11/27/2...comic-creators

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