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  1. #106
    Fantastic Member Sandmans_Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mateo3000 View Post
    Fantomex was literally created because the writers and editors at Marvel at that point in time hated the thought of using Gambit but still wanted to use a character that was based on many of the same traits that Gambit's character is defined by. They wanted to use a character just like him but hated the thought of actually featuring Gambit. So screw Fantomex, Charles Soule basically killing him off in Astonishing Xmen was my favorite part of that run.
    This 100%. There were a couple times I found him funny, but he mostly just annoyed me in that book and I was glad when he was gone. Same with Remender's X-Force.
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  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiminy_Cricket View Post
    There is a lot of 90's character hate amongst a certain demographic of writers who feel characters like Gambit, Jubilee and Bishop took places their preferred characters like Kitty & Nightcrawler.

    I suppose it's not unlike our dislike for Fantomex. It appears the next generation of writers who grew up with these characters are coming into the fold and looking to re-establish them.

    Gambit was huge in the 90's. It was only a decades worth of character assassination that dropped him down the pecking order. Despite this there is still a massive following for the character which speaks to his appeal.
    This right here is so true which is why I get a little sad when I think of the way Marvel treated Gambit the last couple years before 2018. Hopefully they continue to feature him in comics.

  3. #108
    Spectacular Member Captain Buttocks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mateo3000 View Post
    Fantomex was literally created because the writers and editors at Marvel at that point in time hated the thought of using Gambit but still wanted to use a character that was based on many of the same traits that Gambit's character is defined by. They wanted to use a character just like him but hated the thought of actually featuring Gambit. So screw Fantomex, Charles Soule basically killing him off in Astonishing Xmen was my favorite part of that run.
    That's not really true. I doubt Grant Morrison even knew or cared who Gambit was, and Gambit *was* being used as a character at that point in Claremont's book, having come off the back of an incredible solo series which was easily the highlight of late 90s early 00s X-books (admittedly a standout in a field of one!). Fantomex was a one-joke character who GM didn't even think would get used again (Quesada/Jemas went a bit 'scorched Earth' with GM's work after that big screaming match at San Diego in 2004) based on Fantomas and Diabolik, who appeared in precisely seven issues of GMs run. The joke hasn't improved with age or increased exposure, unfortunately.

    Jiminy Cricket - oddly enough I was a big fan of the X-Books in 1989 when Longshot was phased out and replaced with Gambit, but didn't really mind too much. You could kind of tell that comics were getting more grim'n'gritty and Gambit seemed a better fit for the direction (Longshot was never really a great fit on the X-Men, barring a few especially good outback issues). I remember as an eager kid seeing the initital Jim Lee designs for Gambit. It was about the coolest thing my young mnd had ever seen!!!!! I was rooting for him and Rogue from the start!

    Over-exposure led me to tire of Gambit for a spell, but I still think he's a great character in solo or smaller cast books, just a bit over-powering in team books. Issue 10 of his 2004 solo series remains one of my all-time fave Remy stories, and issue 16 of his previous solo (revolution tie-in) really made Rogue/Gambit feel feasible again for me after the...mess... it had become in UXM in the late 90s.

  4. #109
    That's what makes it fun! Ricochet Rita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiminy_Cricket View Post
    I don't think most Gambit fans have anything personal against Fantomex, I think its more the fact that he gets spots on teams that could just as easily be given to Gambit. I'm not well versed in the character it just annoys me that he sometimes gets the push ahead of Gambit. Ironically I bet plenty Longshot fans felt this way about Remy back in the day.
    Right. It's just a logical evolution, though: Nightcrawler, Longshot and Gambit successively took the same place up in the X-Men. Longshot replaced Nightcrawler, then Gambit replaced Longshot, each one with his own idiosyncrasy but appearing as the acrobat slender ladies' man of the team. If you think just a second, it's virtually impossible remember a scene in which they show up together: there must be kind of an editorial mandate to keep them apart.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Buttocks View Post
    Jiminy Cricket - oddly enough I was a big fan of the X-Books in 1989 when Longshot was phased out and replaced with Gambit, but didn't really mind too much. You could kind of tell that comics were getting more grim'n'gritty and Gambit seemed a better fit for the direction (Longshot was never really a great fit on the X-Men, barring a few especially good outback issues). I remember as an eager kid seeing the initital Jim Lee designs for Gambit. It was about the coolest thing my young mnd had ever seen!!!!!
    My exact thoughts when I first saw Gambit were: 'Why, it was about time! It wasn't really that difficult to create a character like this to fill that gap!'.

  5. #110
    Extraordinary Member Purplevit's Avatar
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    Just noticed that in 7 issues of MMX Gambit and Rogue never told that they love each other.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purplevit View Post
    Just noticed that in 7 issues of MMX Gambit and Rogue never told that they love each other.
    Well...historically, they usually say this to one another if they breaking up or one might be dying. I'd have to look through each issue, but Gambit does say "I love you Rogue." in MMX #3. Right before he goes out with Deadpool to fight the shiar army.

    Oh! And I've been going through the MMX series and wanted to point out that Kelly has managed to get in a kiss between them in every book (which I appreciate their history of no touch) except MMX #2 with Deadpool. Wonder if that is why on the cover, Deadpool is actually @#*$blocking Gambit and with the kisses, I'll hand it to KT for making them different and fun (i.e. wedding kisses/bed sheet fun, "last kiss" escape plan, testing out beast's gift, kissing and making up - twice and kiss for luck). Adding in that we even get a kiss in their Christmas story! I appreciate things like this.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purplevit View Post
    Just noticed that in 7 issues of MMX Gambit and Rogue never told that they love each other.
    Remy said I love you to Rogue in MMX #3. Rogue has yet to say it, I'm not sure she even said it in the mini. She did say that "it was never about not loving" him in R&G #3 during her speech in the water where she said she had to try "someone else" before she could be with him. In the flashback to Scott/Jean's wedding in R&G #4, Remy finds out from Rogue's memories that's when she fell in love with him. But as for saying "I love you", it's been a while since Rogue has said that to Remy.

  8. #113
    Fantastic Member Sparta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purplevit View Post
    Just noticed that in 7 issues of MMX Gambit and Rogue never told that they love each other.
    I think KT said she wasn't a fan of writing the literal "I love you" line of dialogue. She'd rather imply it in different ways. A lot of writers do this.

    Not saying I'm a "professional writer" or anything, but whenever I wrote an animated piece (or a script) at school or at film festivals...whenever romance is involved, I tend to veer off the "I love you" stuff because it can come off rather cheesy, so I use different phrases. Depends on the context I guess...

  9. #114
    Extraordinary Member Purplevit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegoLiz View Post
    Well...historically, they usually say this to one another if they breaking up or one might be dying. I'd have to look through each issue, but Gambit does say "I love you Rogue." in MMX #3. Right before he goes out with Deadpool to fight the shiar army.

    Oh! And I've been going through the MMX series and wanted to point out that Kelly has managed to get in a kiss between them in every book (which I appreciate their history of no touch) except MMX #2 with Deadpool. Wonder if that is why on the cover, Deadpool is actually @#*$blocking Gambit and with the kisses, I'll hand it to KT for making them different and fun (i.e. wedding kisses/bed sheet fun, "last kiss" escape plan, testing out beast's gift, kissing and making up - twice and kiss for luck). Adding in that we even get a kiss in their Christmas story! I appreciate things like this.
    Checked it. You are right. I missed that one.
    Also it seems Gambit and Rogue never told that they love each other in present in R&G.

    Gambit told that he loves Rogue in Gold 30. Rogue didn`t tell this.

    I decided to check this because one poster on GG told thta he don`t feel from MMX that Rogue is even loves Remy.

    I think this is the problem why people may think so.

  10. #115
    Extraordinary Member Purplevit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mateo3000 View Post
    Remy said I love you to Rogue in MMX #3. Rogue has yet to say it, I'm not sure she even said it in the mini. She did say that "it was never about not loving" him in R&G #3 during her speech in the water where she said she had to try "someone else" before she could be with him. In the flashback to Scott/Jean's wedding in R&G #4, Remy finds out from Rogue's memories that's when she fell in love with him. But as for saying "I love you", it's been a while since Rogue has said that to Remy.
    Flashbacks and things like "it was never about not loving" don`t count.

    It is like everything in sentence before "but".

  11. #116
    Extraordinary Member Purplevit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparta View Post
    I think KT said she wasn't a fan of writing the literal "I love you" line of dialogue. She'd rather imply it in different ways. A lot of writers do this.

    Not saying I'm a "professional writer" or anything, but whenever I wrote an animated piece (or a script) at school or at film festivals...whenever romance is involved, I tend to veer off the "I love you" stuff because it can come off rather cheesy, so I use different phrases. Depends on the context I guess...
    I dunno. For me "I love you" is normal to use with my gf anytime. And feelings must be always showed and told. It is not right.

    But all peoples are different, I think.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparta View Post
    I think KT said she wasn't a fan of writing the literal "I love you" line of dialogue. She'd rather imply it in different ways. A lot of writers do this.

    Not saying I'm a "professional writer" or anything, but whenever I wrote an animated piece (or a script) at school or at film festivals...whenever romance is involved, I tend to veer off the "I love you" stuff because it can come off rather cheesy, so I use different phrases. Depends on the context I guess...
    I'm fine with couples not saying "I love you" often in comics because they aren't like actual relationships in real life. It also feels just as strong/meaninful when you can tell a character loves another one through their actions and other dialogue that doesn't have the L word (love). But the issue I have (maybe others as well) is that I'm not sure how Thompson implies that Rogue loves Remy from reading MMX. I can clearly see how she implies that Remy loves Rogue in her writing but when I try to do the same for Rogue it feels like a huge stretch or it feels like their relationship is incredibly one-sided. This is just my opinion.

  13. #118
    Fantastic Member Sparta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mateo3000 View Post
    I'm fine with couples not saying "I love you" often in comics because they aren't like actual relationships in real life. It also feels just as strong/meaninful when you can tell a character loves another one through their actions and other dialogue that doesn't have the L word (love). But the issue I have (maybe others as well) is that I'm not sure how Thompson implies that Rogue loves Remy from reading MMX. I can clearly see how she implies that Remy loves Rogue in her writing but when I try to do the same for Rogue it feels like a huge stretch or it feels like their relationship is incredibly one-sided. This is just my opinion.
    I think on the letters section of this latest issue someone asked a similar question to this (something about Rogue's devotion to Gambit) ...and replied that all will be answered soon. So I guess we'll have to stay tuned.

  14. #119
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    Oh come on, she married him, how on earth is it an incredible stretch to believe she loves him after, ya know, she married him?

  15. #120
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyajenkins View Post
    Oh come on, she married him, how on earth is it an incredible stretch to believe she loves him after, ya know, she married him?
    They got married rather quick and abruptly. There wasnt much thought put into it as they jumped into it within an hour of it being brought up. Under those circumstances, its easy to see how they could marry each other without realizing they arent actually in love with each other.

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