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  1. #1141
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hush View Post
    Wolverine appeared in the first issue of Marauders (really fun issue by the way) and as expected his cameo was really good! I love his shopping list and how happy he was after Kitty delivered the goods.

    Also it looks like he's going to try pomade for his hair lol, it reminds me of that scene from Uncanny X-men #246 when he used hair gel:



    I wonder what he's going to try next
    If Hickman doesn't give us the Logan cooking show as the first big hit of Krakoa TV i'm going to be very dissapointed
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
    Nobody does it better by Jeff Loveness

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  2. #1142
    Mighty Member Hush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    I though that it was decent, but it definitely was the lesser show compared with his older brothers. Defenders was just ok, it start strong, but it has a pretty meh climax. Honestly the ones that i want to see the most are Punisher and the last season of DD, so maybe i would do it after that, even if i broke my chronology rule lol. And yeah i'm talking about the Ford and Jones movie, i never really got the chance to see it for one reason or another.
    Punisher's first season was entertaining but it still suffered from pacing issues in the middle and I wasn't a big fan of the new origins Marvel gave him during this first season. The chronology rule can sometimes be annoying that's for sure lol.

    The Fugitive is such a great movie, I'm sure you're going to enjoy it!

    Well the first pages of Wolverine might make some fans happy (i'm sure that LoganAlpha is excited now lol), Kubert art looks pretty cool and that final moment with Kitty was pretty cute. I still don't care about Jean/Logan and wish with all the strenght of my being that they never went there, but there rest look attractive enough for me to overlook that. Also that Emma/Jean one-shot... lol is like Hickman wants to make this board burn.
    The preview looks good and it's really funny to see Logan so happy. But yeah the scene with Jean and the kids is nice even and like you said I'm sure it's going to make several fan of this pairing really happy. The scene with kitty is nice and I wonder what Kitty told to Logan to make him embarassed lol and I hope Jubilee and Amiko will appear during the ongoing!

    So true about the Jean/Emma one shot, this board is going to explode in february lol.

    I heard that Williams might working in something called X-Something (yeah i know not very helpfull lol, but is all i got as of now) some people also seems to want Carey back in the books too.
    Maybe it's that X-Corp title that was teased recently?

    Carey is a good writer and I enjoyed most of his X-Men work even through he co-wrote the horrible Original Sin crossover with Daniel Way where they revealed that Logan only joined the X-Men to kill Xavier which is one of the worst and dumbest idea ever. I'm glad several writers ignored this story, because not only the two writers (and the two editors Nick Lowe and John Barber) ignored continuity, the story also doesn't make sense and just butchered Logan and Xavier backstories, even though Carey said the opposite during one of the X-Position:

    https://www.cbr.com/x-position-mike-carey-daniel-way/

    So as long as Carey stays away from Logan and write more X-Men stories with other characters that should be good.
    Last edited by Hush; 10-26-2019 at 04:10 AM.

  3. #1143
    Mighty Member Hush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    If Hickman doesn't give us the Logan cooking show as the first big hit of Krakoa TV i'm going to be very dissapointed
    Tini Howard recently created the Krakoa streaming service in the "Crazy" comic, one of the most popular shows is "House of eXes" and it looks like Logan is addicted to it lol:




    But yeah for real a cooking show starring Logan should be Hickman's top priority, maybe as part of this Giant Size X-Men series they will launch in February! Of course by the end he will need to face the true cooking master:



    I have to admit this "Crazy" comic was really something lol.

  4. #1144
    Fantastic Member DAHX's Avatar
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    @Hush
    Thank you for the detailed answer and your explanation, it's more clear now. And as I see you understand my point of view too, so it's all good While I feel differently about the character, I basically agree with what you said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hush View Post
    If they want to develop the character into something interesting that makes sense of his past actions and that wonít repeat the same old tropes, Iím okay with it. Hell I could see him joining the Hellfire club for example and maybe down the line, his relationship with Logan could evolve but it needs to be organic for me, I couldnít accept having Logan living peacefully with this guy and Laura after what he did to him in the past right now.
    Now I agree about having a status quo that benefit both characters in a good way but I donít think having them interacting as family would make sense right now
    Funny you mention the Hellfire Club, I was thinking about this too when I imagined where he could be used. It fits the character, wealth, position, etc and would be good as it has nothing to do with Logan.

    About Logan and interacting as a family: yeah, actually I was the same with this before all the Hickman, hox/pox and dawn of x, I didn't think it was possible for them to be like a family. I thought worst case scenario, Daken will stay dead or in limbo after Logan coming back. Best case scenario, they leave each other alone, both doing their own thing, Daken realizing finally that there's no point of going after Logan. He should know very well by now where it leads if he keeps doing it.
    But with the completely new direction of the entire X line, it's quite different now. After seeing unexpected character interactions, the writers intent to use villains differently, things that seemed impossible before happening now, I was already hoping that it'd mean something new for Daken too, something I wouldn't expect. And after the interview I was like, 'wow, they really go with it', and I can't help but be excited, at least for the premise that it won't be the same old thing. But I do need explanation why it's happening if it's happening. Maybe it's because how Daken was brought back to life on Krakoa. It was said that the resurrection process can alter the mutants who go through it.

    But I'm so damn tired of how bad Logan and Daken were alway written together, that honestly at this point I would accept anything that is not about them fighting. But I can see and understand why it wouldn't work for you.
    Well, we'll see soon where Percy takes them and how he executes the story, because we still know nothing. I just really hope it will be something better this time. As we all know, whenever Daken showed up in a Wolverine series, that alwasy ended badly. I want this series to be the first one where that doesn't happen. Logan and Daken should have something else that is not about them trying to kill each other, and not about Daken doing something terrrible to him. Logan also deserves a break.

    I would also love to see what Logan thinks and how he feels about Daken being around. They've been through quite a lot when they... uh, 'met' the last few times


    The way I see it, if you want to have the characters interact in a meaningful way you need to fix Daken first and that means retconning a lot of stuff not just about his past, but also about some of his past actions.
    I agree with this, and he does need it, but I doubt it will ever happen as Marvel never invested in Daken or built the character, and this requires a lot of time and a writer that cares and makes an effort. And it never gonna happen if every writer uses him only as the evil plot to further other characters' stories. For example I was initially happy when he was used in Iceman because 1) it was a new character interaction, not Logan finally 2) as it was an lgbt series, it seemed like Daken was in a better place for once, but surprise, surprise, if not the daddy issues trope, then it's the depraved bisexual trope that is played out lol

    The question also comes to my mind that JDW asked not so long ago, if a character did something terrible, should it be addressed and fixed storywise, or be forgotten, moving on and basically changing it with different stories? Well, I would already fix a lot of things about Daken regardless of Logan, but regarding Logan and their relationship, I would be fine with both ways, I wouldn't mind if they just give them new stories, different direction, and just focus on that. I understand why you would accept only the first option though. But Marvel might take this second route, that's why I said I don't think it's impossible for them to be on better terms as it's just up to the writers if they want to do it and how they want to do it.

    ... which is a completely different situation compared to Cyclops/Xavier or Emma/Cuckoos.
    Oh, I didn't mean like that, the actions of the characters. I don't compare Cyclops/Xavier, Emma/Cuckoos to Daken's actions, it's not on the same level. I simply meant the direction of the writing here, that it looks like Hickman wants to bring these character together, build their relationships and make a turn with them while he kind of ditches/are not continuing the negative things that happened between them in the past, so maybe same will be with Daken/Logan. We don't know that just yet, and for the others I'm sure there'll be some explanation later, for Vulcan/Summers especially.


    Iím not saying they should keep Dakenís role the same as before and donít worry you wonít see me defending the writing of Wolverine origins lol, but despite what Percy said about not dragging the old tired stories he also said he wants to respect the legacy of those characters, heís also a big fan of the Aaronís Wolverine run and Remenderís Uncanny X-Force so at least one thing for sure he knows what heís dealing with when it comes to those characters and their past histories.
    Well, as we already know that Percy will write Logan and Daken, I really hope this means -if he doesn't want to repeat the same old thing- that he will build the things between them properly, to something new with knowing their past. I don't want everything to be ignored from before, just want them to move on from it and stop repeating it.


    The daddy issues are indeed something that have been going on for far too long and I agree that it needs to go away. Look Iím going to be honest, I would prefer for Daken to be on his own doing his own thing, away from Logan in order to develop into his own character, basically avoiding the mistake they did with Sabretooth in recent years and once the character is ready to be something more that he used to be in the past, then yeah have him interact with Logan in a meaningful and creative way.
    I actually agree 100% with this, it would be a good way to go with them. As I mentioned above I'll accept anything with them that is not daddy issues, and sure, I'd be happy to see them as a family if it happens and just a new direction, but if there wasn't the Hickman/Dawn of X era, and if it were up to me, this is exactly what would happen. Since all their interactions were always disastrous, I felt like they needed time away from each other. I wanted to see Daken without Logan, because that would've given him room to develop on his own, and because the writers were so fixated on the daddy issues, it was impossible for them to write them in any other way when they were on the same page...
    But we know this is not going to happen in dox if tey're already written together in the Wolverine series, and because we're already in the middle of other characters' relationships too without seeing how those all started, due to the time jump. But maybe Daken will be doing his own thing separately from Logan too, so he can still somewhat develop on his own, maybe?

  5. #1145
    Fantastic Member DAHX's Avatar
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    ďDakenĒ nickname is indeed problematic but I donít know he wanted to be called that way the first time Logan met him so I guess Logan went with it after a while but yeah it's kind of offensive especially when you know the character's history but at the time he was created it seems Way did everything to make him the more edgy possible, name included.

    I didn't mean Logan calling him Daken, after all, that's what he uses as a name, so Logan has no other option really. And if I recall correctly, Logan mostly calls him son anyway, rarely using Daken, which is good given the meaning of the name.
    What I meant is the instance when the writer made Logan literally think of Daken as 'cur', in order to show how angry Logan was and to make the story edgier...



    Just no, under no circumstances would Logan call his own son 'cur' in my opinion, regardless of how strained their relationship was. Yes, Logan would do what he thinks he needs to do, he fought Daken many times, he killed him when he didn't see other option, but he wouldn't think of him as a cur... It just makes him look bad. I find this one really disgusting, to write Logan thinking about mixed race heritage in a pejorative way. Logan has long history, connection and respect for Japan, he knows better, he is not racist, and he is well aware that Daken had hard life partly due to being biracial... Hell, that's why his name is Daken. And this was also another reason why Daken blamed Logan for his life. It wasn't greatly emphasized, but it was there and I'm sure it's something Logan would understand and feel sorry about on a very personal level, he created him after all. And here, he just casually calls him cur... Obviously it's not Logan who I'm blaming here. For me writing Logan like this is unaccaptable, and this is what I'm talking about when I'm saying that it's not good for either of them when the writers write them together only in a hateful way. Because on one side they reduced Daken to a bunch of offensive stereotypes, on Logan's side they write him like this for example, just to make the story edgier and more dramatic. And it's also not okay that the writers almost always use Daken's Japanese heriatge only in this way...


    I also don't like how Daken's backstory is linked to some of the worst Wolverine stories written by Daniel Way and which ruined Logan's own backstory
    I don' like Way's writing at all. It did only bad to Logan and gave a terrible introductory story for Daken. It only got better for Daken when Marjorie Liu joind him to co-write Dark Wolverine. But does Way's story matter anything today? Because I see it only ignored?

    also how Soule/Fawke/Taylor wrote recent stories with him by ignoring some of his past actions.
    What do you think, what was ignored by Soule/Fawke/Taylor?

    Same for me, I respect your opinion and don't worry your reply didn't come out badly! I always enjoy debating Wolverine stuff so you know it's all in good fun
    Thank you!

    - - - - - - -

    When I said it was about time for them to interact, basically that mostly means that it's about time for Marvel to stop doing the same old things with them, and that if Logan has a son, who depsite all the bad writing and lack of proper use is an established character, then maybe do something with him and develop/fix him finally rather than bringing in new kids...
    Last edited by DAHX; 11-07-2019 at 02:19 PM.

  6. #1146
    Fantastic Member DAHX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    I agreed with all your long post Hush, but this part especially, i don't mind Daken as a character (and i always find funny how he got into Norman's nerves at the beginning of Dark Wolverine lol), but i would less problems with him if he wasn't so connected to the worst series of Wolverine that was ever written. Honestly i even think that changing his origin would benefit his fans, is not like Way wrote a magnu opus when he presented him in Origins frankly.
    lol, Daken trolling the Dark Avengers was one of his best really. Osborn especially. ĄDo you know what a hero is? -You mean like Spider-Man?Ē I liked that Daken much more than when he was written with Logan most of the times.
    Changing his origins could benefit his fans too; I can never recommand reading Daken comics starting with his first appearance...
    Not just it wasn't a magnum opus, but for Daken there were like 3 pages only about his childhood/past, which was supposed to be the reason why he is the way he is and why he hates Logan... They didn't even bother to show the reasons properly, they just said Daken was raised to hate Logan and has traumas, but we got to see them fighting for 13 years... That's really not good writing

  7. #1147
    Incredible Member GylT'Nav's Avatar
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    Last edited by GylT'Nav; 10-30-2019 at 03:04 AM.

  8. #1148
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    So anyone thing old man Logan shall come back to life in the old man Logan avengers spinoff ?

  9. #1149
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Nah. Let him Rest In Peace. He’s earned it. With OG Logan back, I’m happy OML is in the afterlife with his family.

  10. #1150
    Fantastic Member Mr Abductor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dthirds3 View Post
    So anyone thing old man Logan shall come back to life in the old man Logan avengers spinoff ?
    It looks pretty awful to be frank.

  11. #1151
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dthirds3 View Post
    So anyone thing old man Logan shall come back to life in the old man Logan avengers spinoff ?
    Can I get a link? I haven't seen this.

    Also the ending to Dead Man Logan, while predictable, I thought was done well. I'm gonna miss the ol' grump
    You brought back Wolverine

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  12. #1152
    The One Above All 616MarvelYear is LeapYear's Avatar
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    Talking Happy 45th Anniversary 616 Logan aka Wolverine!!! 1974-2019

    Incredible Hulk #180 Oct 1974
    First appearance of Wolverine (cameo last panel)
    in "And the Wind Howls...Wendigo!"

    Hulk is in Canada looking for some peace and quiet

    when he is mysteriously drawn to a cave inhabited by the sister of the man who became the Wendigo;
    Marie and Georges plan on transferring the power of the Wendigo to the Hulk, thus restorin Paul Cartier to his normal life;
    Marie's magic isn't strong enough, however, and just as Wendigo shows up,
    the Hulk wakes up from his magical slumber and the two battle;

    The Canadian government gets involved

    and sends in their own agent to take care of a recent Hulk sighting, the mutant known as Wolverine!

    Script by Len Wein, pencils by Herb Trimpe, inks by Jack Abel
    Imperius Rex!
    http://www.tradingcarddb.com/Images/.../74396-9Bk.jpg
    It's clobberin' time! Hulk is strongest one there is! Have at thee!
    http://www.tradingcarddb.com/Images/...74396-51Bk.jpg
    I'm the best there is at what I do, but what I do best isn't very nice.
    http://www.tradingcarddb.com/Images/...74396-43Bk.jpg

  13. #1153
    Fantastic Member Mr Abductor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    Can I get a link? I haven't seen this.

    Also the ending to Dead Man Logan, while predictable, I thought was done well. I'm gonna miss the ol' grump
    Here

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbr...astelands/amp/

    Cover is on this

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mar...e-wastelands-1

  14. #1154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    Can I get a link? I haven't seen this.

    Also the ending to Dead Man Logan, while predictable, I thought was done well. I'm gonna miss the ol' grump
    Here you go.

    avenwastelands2019001-1192841.jpg

    https://www.cbr.com/avengers-of-the-...n-logan-world/

  15. #1155
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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