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  1. #2566
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    So, how do you guys here feel about Wanda's 2016 solo series?
    I like (most of) the characterization of Wanda and the attempt to give her more of a sense of humor. I didn't like how disconnected it was from the Marvel universe and everyone who ever knew Wanda except Agatha and Quicksilver (who was poorly written in the first of his appearances). The stand-alone stories were much better than the search for her real mother; they even lampshaded in the book that nobody really cares who their parents are any more, and the idea that there was a previous Scarlet Witch doesn't make a lot of sense.

    I was OK with the artist changes until the end when it had more of a multi-part story, when they really needed one artist to hold it together.

    The best art was the issue by Joëlle Jones, and the best issue was the one with the therapist where they finally discussed some of the bizarre continuity issues with Wanda (e.g. what are Wiccan and Speed and why are they so much older than her kids).

    Overall I think I like it better than I did at the time. At the time I was disappointed that it was doing so little to re-integrate Wanda back into the Marvel Universe. Now that we've gone months at a time with her doing nothing, I know that's not Robinson's fault and he did the best he could to give Wanda the spotlight when no one else would.

  2. #2567
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    I remember thinking Robinson was a bad choice for the title. I hear he's done good work at DC, but his Marvel work seems to be mediocre at best. He certainly wouldn't have been my choice to breath new life into any character or property.

  3. #2568
    viva krakoa ermac's Avatar
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    I loved that run.
    I'm reading: Batman - Daredevil - East of West - New Mutants - Immortal Hulk - Runaways - XForce

  4. #2569
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    Not just bad artists but ones that constantly change artists. Books that do don't do that well.
    I think that's an American thing, where the single strip and one artist formula is so ingrained (outside of the US the anthology format, often 2-3 strips in one book is the standard). It's a cultural thing.

    For me, seeing how different artists interpret the same character can be fascinating. I've found that some artists I initially dislike I grow to like when I look more closely. I'm a huge nerd about art styles, though.

    Regarding Robinsons Scarlet Witch, Joelle Jones art is amazing, sge draws an amazjng Wanda, while Kai Zama's art is sublime (though, oddly, Geoff Senior's influence on Zama I felt more in her issue of SW than in her work on Death's Head), Marco Rudy's art was gorgeous, and his layout was so creative, but impossible to do for more than a one-off.. Margarite Sauvage had a unique style that I grew to appreciate. Tula Lotay was perfectly suited to the therapy issue. The best issues also had the best art IMHO.

    Vanessa Del Rey's work I disliked. Scruffy and downright awful in places, especially the last issue. The art went downhill in the last few issues, as the story got bogged down in Wanda's past.

    Robinson did a good job but (and this is just me speculating),t he seemed to be heavily restricted by Marvel editorial and it seemed to suck away at him. You cannot help but notice how the book is totally cut off from the rest of Marvel. That has pretty much continued, with the exception of the annual Avengers mini-series.

    Robinson I felt kind of had a tin ear for the broader mystical tone, even though he wrote some very good single stories. I admire him and Emily Shaw fighting to get the book made.

  5. #2570
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relugus View Post
    I think that's an American thing, where the single strip and one artist formula is so ingrained (outside of the US the anthology format, often 2-3 strips in one book is the standard). It's a cultural thing.

    For me, seeing how different artists interpret the same character can be fascinating. I've found that some artists I initially dislike I grow to like when I look more closely. I'm a huge nerd about art styles, though.

    Regarding Robinsons Scarlet Witch, Joelle Jones art is amazing, sge draws an amazjng Wanda, while Kai Zama's art is sublime (though, oddly, Geoff Senior's influence on Zama I felt more in her issue of SW than in her work on Death's Head), Marco Rudy's art was gorgeous, and his layout was so creative, but impossible to do for more than a one-off.. Margarite Sauvage had a unique style that I grew to appreciate. Tula Lotay was perfectly suited to the therapy issue. The best issues also had the best art IMHO.

    Vanessa Del Rey's work I disliked. Scruffy and downright awful in places, especially the last issue. The art went downhill in the last few issues, as the story got bogged down in Wanda's past.

    Robinson did a good job but (and this is just me speculating),t he seemed to be heavily restricted by Marvel editorial and it seemed to suck away at him. You cannot help but notice how the book is totally cut off from the rest of Marvel. That has pretty much continued, with the exception of the annual Avengers mini-series.

    Robinson I felt kind of had a tin ear for the broader mystical tone, even though he wrote some very good single stories. I admire him and Emily Shaw fighting to get the book made.
    Marco Rudy definitely pulled off the tone of issue 2 for me. Joelle Jones had been my default look for comic Wanda for sometimes.

  6. #2571

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    Quote Originally Posted by Relugus View Post
    I think that's an American thing, where the single strip and one artist formula is so ingrained (outside of the US the anthology format, often 2-3 strips in one book is the standard). It's a cultural thing.

    For me, seeing how different artists interpret the same character can be fascinating. I've found that some artists I initially dislike I grow to like when I look more closely. I'm a huge nerd about art styles, though.

    Regarding Robinsons Scarlet Witch, Joelle Jones art is amazing, sge draws an amazjng Wanda, while Kai Zama's art is sublime (though, oddly, Geoff Senior's influence on Zama I felt more in her issue of SW than in her work on Death's Head), Marco Rudy's art was gorgeous, and his layout was so creative, but impossible to do for more than a one-off.. Margarite Sauvage had a unique style that I grew to appreciate. Tula Lotay was perfectly suited to the therapy issue. The best issues also had the best art IMHO.

    Vanessa Del Rey's work I disliked. Scruffy and downright awful in places, especially the last issue. The art went downhill in the last few issues, as the story got bogged down in Wanda's past.

    Robinson did a good job but (and this is just me speculating),t he seemed to be heavily restricted by Marvel editorial and it seemed to suck away at him. You cannot help but notice how the book is totally cut off from the rest of Marvel. That has pretty much continued, with the exception of the annual Avengers mini-series.

    Robinson I felt kind of had a tin ear for the broader mystical tone, even though he wrote some very good single stories. I admire him and Emily Shaw fighting to get the book made.
    Not really sure, cause there's no numbers to tell how each region receives things. And general reaction on forums and in sales is that those comics don't do well. Also there are people in certain regions without access to comics, so can't really get their perspective on it all. I can tell you how the Romani community reacted to it, and most of them weren't American. lol
    Was Curlytop

  7. #2572
    Fantastic Member Probability010's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    So, how do you guys here feel about Wanda's 2016 solo series?

    I like it a lot, despite seeing several problems with it – but, I think it works only for someone who has a strong interest in Wanda to begin with. The main plot is just a weak excuse for what is mostly episodic. For many of the issues one could have anything at each’s beginning and it would work just as well as a one-off. Then there is the art. And to me its not so much that it changes from issue to issue, its especially the one from the first issue. I don’t know what the artist was trying there, but to me it looks plain ugly. It looks like that in the last one, maybe it’s the same artist, but there it doesn’t mater anymore. I imagine someone who is not a die-hard Wanda Fan, but wanting to check that out, pulling that first issue from the store, and be “eeewww”, and puts it back again. From the first to the second issue the sales dropped by half, if I remember correctly. I assume the art and the lackluster setup of the main plot in the first issue are main responsible for that.

    I do like how witchcraft was explored. However, I whish that also Wanda’s probability manipulation would have been used – as one can guess by my avatar name . It can allow for a writer to have Wanda use her environment in creative ways. Can. Sometimes even that is just used as *she makes stuff break*.

    I think the fights are to short. I guess this is done to show how both powerful and experienced Wanda is, but it usually just was a two-spell combo and she was done with it. After a few issues I was like: “Ok, I get it. Do something interesting with it or let it be”. Now to me this is mostly offset by this not being about the battle anyway. Often it was about understanding the overall situation, where the enemy is, who he is. I also liked that it became almost a running gag, that Wanda was kinda trying to be undercover, but everybody recognized her anyway.

    Obviously more crossovers/cameos could have helped, and it could have done carefully, without really taking away from her presence. But I understand now that this was not the writer’s fault. I think it was particularly striking through Agatha Harkness, who seemed to be mostly there so that Wanda isn’t monologuing the entire time. Ironically, for me there I experienced Agatha as an actual character, and not just an exposition device. I really liked her British Humor.

    I loved the concept of the Witches Road. I could have an entire series just with that.

    I like the family roots stuff. Should say, back when I read that first, I didn’t know how convoluted that background already is and with that now even more so. Still like it though.

    So, if one goes into it without such specific expectations, I think one can enjoy that little run for exploring Wanda’s character, exploring some of her background, and see her having some adventures.
    Last edited by Probability010; 09-13-2019 at 12:38 AM. Reason: Just give the final sentence space ;-)

  8. #2573
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    Quote Originally Posted by leokearon View Post
    It does still mean that technically approximately 15.5 million mutants just vanished, maybe one of them was a reality jumper who took them to another dimension where they would be save after the Genosha attack
    I think what the second Screenrant article was about is that it was claimed that there were several million Mutants still living outside of Genosha, all over the world, when the attack happened. Those where never in imminent danger and should still be alive. Then Wanda depowered about one million Mutants. Then the “Mutant count” was at about 200. So independent from both Genosha and Wanda, sometime, somehow, millions of Mutants must have vanished into thin air. Maybe sometimes that happens to them, I don’t know

    Now as you mention it, maybe someone teleported a few millions out in time, to safety, then there would be still a few millions alive after Genosha. But it would be weird that nobody ever mentioned that.

    So I think the simplest way out of this is to do what apparently the “statistic” in “House of X #4” does, to assume that it was not several but only one million outside Genosha, all over the world. Maybe the mutants exaggerate their numbers where they cannot be easily verified

  9. #2574
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    Quote Originally Posted by Probability010 View Post
    I like it a lot, despite seeing several problems with it – but, I think it works only for someone who has a strong interest in Wanda to begin with. The main plot is just a weak excuse for what is mostly episodic. For many of the issues one could have anything at each’s beginning and it would work just as well as a one-off. Then there is the art. And to me its not so much that it changes from issue to issue, its especially the one from the first issue. I don’t know what the artist was trying there, but to me it looks plain ugly. It looks like that in the last one, maybe it’s the same artist, but there it doesn’t mater anymore. I imagine someone who is not a die-hard Wanda Fan, but wanting to check that out, pulling that first issue from the store, and be “eeewww”, and puts it back again. From the first to the second issue the sales dropped by half, if I remember correctly. I assume the art and the lackluster setup of the main plot in the first issue are main responsible for that.

    I do like how witchcraft was explored. However, I whish that also Wanda’s probability manipulation would have been used – as one can guess by my avatar name . It can allow for a writer to have Wanda use her environment in creative ways. Can. Sometimes even that is just used as *she makes stuff break*.

    I think the fights are to short. I guess this is done to show how both powerful and experienced Wanda is, but it usually just was a two-spell combo and she was done with it. After a few issues I was like: “Ok, I get it. Do something interesting with it or let it be”. Now to me this is mostly offset by this not being about the battle anyway. Often it was about understanding the overall situation, where the enemy is, who he is. I also liked that it became almost a running gag, that Wanda was kinda trying to be undercover, but everybody recognized her anyway.

    Obviously more crossovers/cameos could have helped, and it could have done carefully, without really taking away from her presence. But I understand now that this was not the writer’s fault. I think it was particularly striking through Agatha Harkness, who seemed to be mostly there so that Wanda isn’t monologuing the entire time. Ironically, for me there I experienced Agatha as an actual character, and not just an exposition device. I really liked her British Humor.

    I loved the concept of the Witches Road. I could have an entire series just with that.

    I like the family roots stuff. Should say, back when I read that first, I didn’t know how convoluted that background already is and with that now even more so. Still like it though.
    So, if one goes into it without such specific expectations, I think one can enjoy that little run for exploring Wanda’s character, exploring some of her background, and see her having some adventures.
    I hope it can expand to more mystical Houses/Families/Bloodlines, so far it's really just Wanda and Emerald Herald.(And we don't see EH's ancestors or family members there.)
    "Ancestral Dimension outside of time and space" is a fascinating concept if done right.

  10. #2575
    Tyrant Sun User leokearon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Probability010 View Post
    I think what the second Screenrant article was about is that it was claimed that there were several million Mutants still living outside of Genosha, all over the world, when the attack happened. Those where never in imminent danger and should still be alive. Then Wanda depowered about one million Mutants. Then the “Mutant count” was at about 200. So independent from both Genosha and Wanda, sometime, somehow, millions of Mutants must have vanished into thin air. Maybe sometimes that happens to them, I don’t know

    Now as you mention it, maybe someone teleported a few millions out in time, to safety, then there would be still a few millions alive after Genosha. But it would be weird that nobody ever mentioned that.

    So I think the simplest way out of this is to do what apparently the “statistic” in “House of X #4” does, to assume that it was not several but only one million outside Genosha, all over the world. Maybe the mutants exaggerate their numbers where they cannot be easily verified
    Like I said, the 15.5 million teleported to another dimension following the attack on Genosha and maybe only recently returned
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  11. #2576
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    Quote Originally Posted by Probability010 View Post
    I like it a lot, despite seeing several problems with it – but, I think it works only for someone who has a strong interest in Wanda to begin with. The main plot is just a weak excuse for what is mostly episodic. For many of the issues one could have anything at each’s beginning and it would work just as well as a one-off. Then there is the art. And to me its not so much that it changes from issue to issue, its especially the one from the first issue. I don’t know what the artist was trying there, but to me it looks plain ugly. It looks like that in the last one, maybe it’s the same artist, but there it doesn’t mater anymore. I imagine someone who is not a die-hard Wanda Fan, but wanting to check that out, pulling that first issue from the store, and be “eeewww”, and puts it back again. From the first to the second issue the sales dropped by half, if I remember correctly. I assume the art and the lackluster setup of the main plot in the first issue are main responsible for that.

    I do like how witchcraft was explored. However, I whish that also Wanda’s probability manipulation would have been used – as one can guess by my avatar name . It can allow for a writer to have Wanda use her environment in creative ways. Can. Sometimes even that is just used as *she makes stuff break*.

    I think the fights are to short. I guess this is done to show how both powerful and experienced Wanda is, but it usually just was a two-spell combo and she was done with it. After a few issues I was like: “Ok, I get it. Do something interesting with it or let it be”. Now to me this is mostly offset by this not being about the battle anyway. Often it was about understanding the overall situation, where the enemy is, who he is. I also liked that it became almost a running gag, that Wanda was kinda trying to be undercover, but everybody recognized her anyway.

    Obviously more crossovers/cameos could have helped, and it could have done carefully, without really taking away from her presence. But I understand now that this was not the writer’s fault. I think it was particularly striking through Agatha Harkness, who seemed to be mostly there so that Wanda isn’t monologuing the entire time. Ironically, for me there I experienced Agatha as an actual character, and not just an exposition device. I really liked her British Humor.

    I loved the concept of the Witches Road. I could have an entire series just with that.

    I like the family roots stuff. Should say, back when I read that first, I didn’t know how convoluted that background already is and with that now even more so. Still like it though.

    So, if one goes into it without such specific expectations, I think one can enjoy that little run for exploring Wanda’s character, exploring some of her background, and see her having some adventures.
    Vanessa Del Rey's art did alot of damage I feel. Scruffy and it had that "pencil lines" smudge effect. It's so rough and haphazard. All the other artists, even the ones whose styles I don't care for, had a professional quality...Just so rough.

    If Joelle Jones or Marco Rudy had worked on the first issue, I think the drop off in readership would have been much less.

  12. #2577
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  13. #2578
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    Quote Originally Posted by leokearon View Post
    Like I said, the 15.5 million teleported to another dimension following the attack on Genosha and maybe only recently returned
    They just retconned the number of mutants outside of Genosha. It's hardly the only retcon in HoXPoX.

  14. #2579
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    They just retconned the number of mutants outside of Genosha. It's hardly the only retcon in HoXPoX.
    It isn't a retcon it's another research failure of Bendis compounded now by Hickman
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  15. #2580
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    Quote Originally Posted by leokearon View Post
    It isn't a retcon it's another research failure of Bendis compounded now by Hickman
    Accidental retcons are still retcons.

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