“Try not to die!" Runaways Appreciation 2019

[Personamanx]

I don't think that's true now.

spoilers:

Read Avengers/Champions: Worlds Collide (Avengers #672-674, Champions #13-15), Champions: Champion For a Day (Champions #16-18 - Viv is forced to embrace her emotions in these arcs after deliberately blocking them for months), Champions #22-23 (involving Man-Thing, who sees Viv's memories), and Avengers: No Road Home (where Vision gets philosophical and mentions Vin). I'm pretty sure both Vizh and Viv have done their grieving. They wouldn't want revenge.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I've read much of that, but I think there's a significant difference between coming to terms with a family member's death and forgiving the other family member who killed them. I don't think anything happened in those books remarkable enough for me to buy the Vision, and Viv to be anything less than hostile towards Victor. Maybe not outright try to kill him, but I wouldn't buy them ever offering to help him. Accidentally or not, if I killed my nephew I'm not likely to have many of my family members on my side. I could see Tony Stark or Jocasta helping if he reached out. Tony clearly feels guilty about sending Victor on the mission, and I would assume Jocasta would be more forgiving of her brother.

end of spoilers

Respectfully I disagree with the proposal that spoilers:

Victor is hesitant to ask for help from the Champions or Avengers because he's afraid of the being killed. Again. It makes no sense for him to be afraid of THAT but then resolve to kill himself . I'm officially in the camp of believers that something ELSE is up his sleeve....er... neck? Something's going on that he feels defeated and desperate and whatever's happening in that tub is his reluctant solution. And its not suicide

end of spoilers

spoilers:

Well I don't think it's fear of violence from the Visions that would stop Victor from seeking them out either. It's just that the inevitable hostility would make it a fruitless endeavor if he was aiming for their help. It would be a very easy way for Victor to get himself killed, but then he'd have to look his family in the eye again. Either way, I don't think Victor would see it as a good move if he would even consider it as a option. But yeah, I don't feel like I have any reason to read this as anything besides a suicide attempt. Doesn't look like it will be successful, but we haven't been given a reason for Victor to know this would create a new body for himself. Or whatever is happening in that tub. We might get it next issue.

end of spoilers

[Beetle]

spoilers:

One of the chemicals he dumped into the bath was Agar In microbiology you use agar as a growth medium, a fibre filled jelly that you can grow bacteria, viruses and fungi in.

end of spoilers

[Personamanx]

spoilers:

One of the chemicals he dumped into the bath was Agar In microbiology you use agar as a growth medium, a fibre filled jelly that you can grow bacteria, viruses and fungi in.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

Alright, looks like Mancha knows what he's doing then. I concede, wasn't familiar with Agar and assumed the chemical bath was nothing more than household cleaners. Drowning in a diluted bleach solution is easier than drinking it from the bottle after all. He could also become Marvel's first Vegetarian sour patch kid.

end of spoilers

[Inversed]

spoilers:

I feel like Victor doesn't go to see them not because he's afraid of being killed by them, but moreso because he knows all the pain he brought them and doesn't feel he's deserving of their help or their presence yet. I know Jeremy Whitley has mentioned that so far he doesn't have plans for Nadia to meet Victor yet, because he feels she and Viv might still be hesitant about fully accepting him after what happened, not straight up antagonistic, but mostly uncomfortable.

end of spoilers

[Personamanx]

Just me rambling about why I read the issue, and Victor's characterization the way I did.

spoilers:

So Rowell took to twitter last night to address how people like myself read the scene as a suicide attempt. She states that she didn't intend for the scene to be interpreted that way, and that it wasn't what she was trying to build. Which I have no reason to believe isn't true, but I do have to wonder... Has anyone else been reading Victor's entire arc in this series as him being depressed, and suicidal? I don't think I've brought it up much here if at all, it's a heavy subject and I didn't think it needed to be said considering his characterization in the series. But from the moment he was shown to wake up, and basically told Chase that he would rather be dead again that's how I've been reading him. His general behavior during this volume has clearly been indicative of someone under a significant amount of emotional as well as mental stress, and not without reason. Now apparently, I misread the last few pages of the issue but I thought that if not a suicide attempt (or close approximation of one) was coming up there would be later drama caused by Victor attempting to get help. As for why I read the scene as a suicide attempt, and am still surprised that it wasn't intentional: Much of the issue focuses on Victor re-living, and associating two moments from his life. How ineffectual he was during the confrontation with the Seeds of the Gibborim, and how he accidentally killed his nephew during Tom King's Vision series. In other words how useless, burdensome, and awful of a person he feels himself to be. Now of course others have pointed out that it can absolutely be read as just illustrating his fear that if he regained his old abilities he would be the cause of something awful once again. It can be both, they don't oppose one another. His interactions with the others feel like someone putting on a brave face for the sake of their friends when under distress. Gert notices that something is wrong with Victor, but he keeps insisting that he's okay. Chase is dismissive of everything Vic says, and even points out that if Victor had the abilities/body that he feared Doombot would be easy to fix. Mancha doesn't say anything, but he's clearly hurting. And of course there's the scene in which Gib saves Gert from a falling girder as Victor is trying to talk to her. If he had the powers that he feared, he could have easily saved her. He didn't, but Gib was able to save her. In that situation he was useless, and even redundant. That does a lot to a guy's mind palace. Hell, his final line aside from yelling out "GERT!" was "I don't think I should be alone right--." Which is when even before the final three pages I thought he was going to kill himself. Then of course we get to the scene in the bathroom. He locks the door so his friends can't stop him (you only leave the door unlocked if you're worried no one will find you). He poured salt into the bath which increases the conductivity of the water so if you were to say drop a toaster into you it would be more lethal. He poured an unknown chemical into the water as it's easier to dunk your head into a chemical bath, and open your mouth than it is to drink straight from the bottle. He disconnects his head so he won't pull himself out of the water on survival instinct if he manages to drown. Next we have his head sinking into the water with air escaping from his nose followed by the final splash page. With a serene expression the electricity happens, and something begins to grow out of his neck. As previously stated I interpreted that as a survival failsafe. The only thing indicative of Mancha knowing what he was doing relies on knowing what "Agar" is. Personally I assumed it was an "Ajax" or "Acme" style product on first inspection. Something you'd find under a kitchen sink. But it very much gives context to indicate that he was in fact not trying to kill himself. I am still surprised that we weren't supposed to get suicidal vibes from Victor during this issue. There's value in it as a metaphor, but apparently myself and others are just reading into things that aren't there. It felt rather deliberate, and researched. The only thing that was missing was him taking off his clothes, and folding them neatly.

end of spoilers

[Wiccan]

Can we start talking without spoiler tags? lol. Well if not sorry cause I'll do it:

I also thought it was supposed to be a suicide attempt when I first read it. After reading the comments here, especially about what's on the thub, I thought "Oh, I guess it really isn't then". But I was still pretty convinced it was supposed to look it that way to catch people by surprise and end the issue on a shocking cliffhanger. So I'm actually really confused that Rowell apparently didn't even intend it to be that.

[Personamanx]

Can we start talking without spoiler tags? lol. Well if not sorry cause I'll do it:

I also thought it was supposed to be a suicide attempt when I first read it. After reading the comments here, especially about what's on the thub, I thought "Oh, I guess it really isn't then". But I was still pretty convinced it was supposed to look it that way to catch people by surprise and end the issue on a shocking cliffhanger. So I'm actually really confused that Rowell apparently didn't even intend it to be that.

I know, right? I can respect the value in using an apparent suicide as a metaphor, it's certainly shocking but it can be more than that. But it's weird as hell that it doesn't appear to have been her intention. A flashing neon sign couldn't have made it more apparent, I can't see how someone could read the issue without at least getting some suicidal vibes. The words, the visuals, the contrast between Victor's scenes and the rest of the book.... It's wild to think that Rainbow didn't register what she was doing.

[Wiccan]

I know, right? I can respect the value in using an apparent suicide as a metaphor, it's certainly shocking but it can be more than that. But it's weird as hell that it doesn't appear to have been her intention. A flashing neon sign couldn't have made it more apparent, I can't see how someone could read the issue without at least getting some suicidal vibes. The words, the visuals, the contrast between Victor's scenes and the rest of the book.... It's wild to think that Rainbow didn't register what she was doing.

According to her, it's supposed to be about Victor's struggle about his body. He's really afraid of having it again because of what he did, but he's feeling guilty because he thinks that, if he had it, maybe he could have protected Gert and Doombot. With that insight, I can definetely look at the whole issue, especially his panic attacks, with a whole other view.

Still, that last scene specifically had a really strong suicidal imagery... I'm a bit baffled that it wasn't supposed to be at the very least a way to misled some people and/or have a metaphor. Maybe that or something like it was Genolet's intention? I got it more from the art than the writing personally.

[Digifiend]

Bear in mind, if it WAS supposed to show a suicide attempt, they would've had a mention of that suicide prevention helpline, like Uncanny X-Men #11 (where Blindfold committed suicide because so many of her friends have been killed) and Unstoppable Wasp #5 (where Nadia tried to kill herself due to bipolar manic depression) did.

[Personamanx]

Well, I wouldn't know anything about that having picked up neither. But I don't recall there being such a PSA when Virginia Vision killed herself after "murdering" Victor. You could be right though, it would have certainly removed any ambiguity about the situation if nothing else. Especially for those who have little to no familiarity with what Agar is.

[Personamanx]

Oh, just noticed that the current Runaways series has been nominated for an Eisner award for best continuing series. Wouldn't be the first time the book or someone associated with the book has been nominated, but it's nice that the new series is getting some recognition. There's some tough competition however.

Best Continuing Series:

Batman, by Tom King et al. (DC)
Black Hammer: Age of Doom, by Jeff Lemire, Dean Ormston, and Rich Tommaso (Dark Horse)
Gasolina, by Sean Mackiewicz and Niko Walter (Skybound/Image)
Giant Days, by John Allison, Max Sarin, and Julaa Madrigal (BOOM! Box)
The Immortal Hulk, by Al Ewing, Joe Bennett, and Ruy José (Marvel)
Runaways, by Rainbow Rowell and Kris Anka (Marvel)

[Wiccan]

Matt Wilson is also nominated as best colorist. I really thinks he deserves it.

[Personamanx]

Matt Wilson is also nominated as best colorist. I really thinks he deserves it.

Didn't even notice that to be honest, but Wilson definitely deserves praise for Paper Girls alone. He's on several fantastic looking books.

[Personamanx]

From Marvel's recent unspecified teaser campaign:

[Digifiend]

According to Bleeding Cool, it's an anthology comic called Marvel #1000. And the format is probably similar to last year's X-Men Holiday Special. I doubt most of these will be more than a couple of pages. I would imagine that this will involve the Runaways, but only on whatever pages Rowell and Anka do.