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  1. #1126
    Spectacular Member AZPolaris's Avatar
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    I was looking at the Bagley variants last night and realized the casts for the books appear on the corresponding covers. Lorna and Sunfire both appear on the Marauders cover. Could be purely coincidental but it's worth mentioning. There could be more to those covers than was originally thought. I woul rather she be spotlighted in a new book but Marauders could be interesting.

  2. #1127
    Astonishing Member AbnormallyNormal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZPolaris View Post
    I was looking at the Bagley variants last night and realized the casts for the books appear on the corresponding covers. Lorna and Sunfire both appear on the Marauders cover. Could be purely coincidental but it's worth mentioning. There could be more to those covers than was originally thought. I woul rather she be spotlighted in a new book but Marauders could be interesting.
    I share your sentiment but I agree we'll just have to find out if she is on Marauders, what her role is. It could be really good.
    "So many killers... so much screaming... so many dying. I didn't know where to turn, who to help - which sentinel to stop first. And with the accusations of human judgement screaming in my ears... all I could think was that he was right. MAGNETO HAD BEEN RIGHT ALL ALONG!"

  3. #1128
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    This is why it’s helpful to look at future issues. Lorna wasn’t just not amongst the Marauders in the first issue, she isn’t among them in the preview art given out of the second issue. She is on no cover or variant cover to the title.

    Neither thing is evidence that she couldn’t be added into the title in the new year, but I will be frank while I see some relationship interaction potential between some of the characters the boat is metaphorically full... very full.

    I have no problem with Lorna guest starring on the title which Magneto will be doing on a lot of titles, because that is basically what if they did add her on at this point it would amount to, but the character needs a title where if she isn’t the first or second x-woman on it in terms of importance at least the third.

    It is true there is an overall lack of energy in Lorna fandom the past few years related to her in the comics one can see it on comic vine where they haven’t updated her since 2014 or any number of other sites. Why? She hasn’t had a story of her own really that really got fans excited.

    I will also say my personal suspicion. Lorna might have been meant to be on the Marauders and based on the art not meant to be in X-Men #1, but plans changed. I support her being on one of the new titles likely to start in the late winter/early Spring.
    Last edited by jmc247; 11-09-2019 at 09:47 AM.

  4. #1129
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    It would feel so awkward to have her back on a team called Maurarders considering how the original screwed over her life so bad

  5. #1130
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    It would feel so awkward to have her back on a team called Maurarders considering how the original screwed over her life so bad
    Yeah, that's what I said too. Though I think it could lead to some interesting character moments for Lorna, and give her an opportunity to redefine something that was so awful for her.

    I still think she'll be involved in another title though.

  6. #1131

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    With regard to fan energy, there are myriad things that come to mind.

    One is that her fandom is more diffuse and active on broader media. One of the big reasons I posted fanart, cosplay, tweets, etc here is specifically because that's fandom that's not present on dedicated comic book boards.

    In all frankness, this and one other (mostly) X-Men board are the only two actual message boards I've been using since the early 2010s. And I don't even remember how the heck I ended up here. AND there was about two years that I stopped posting here entirely. Nevermind fans that may have been banned or warned off the board for one reason or another. Comics-dedicated message boards don't properly reflect actual fan interest in characters.

    Marvel seems to know this too - even if they sometimes pretend they don't. If you look at CBR appreciation threads, X-23, Magik and Rogue have fewer pages than this thread, yet Marvel does way more with them than with Lorna.

    I think Instagram and Twitter are the two best places to see fandom interest. I focus on Twitter 99% of the time because it's what I use most and it's not limited to image posts. Tumblr used to be a huge one but the adult content ban really hurt its fandom activity. Plus Tumblr has a problem with some posts not appearing in searches.

    But even aside from all that, there's still a silent segment of fans who may not post a lot about her, may not consider her their absolute favorite, but they would absolutely read something with her because she's in it. Also not even accounting for the HUGE untapped market of people who don't even know she exists and would dive right in if she got real promotion and support for once. We got a taste of this with Gifted. People involved in the show clearly thought Blink was going to be the breakout star, only for Lorna to grab most of the interest. Any company working in non-creative content (let's say, for example, nacho fries) would have noticed a rise in demand, lack of supply, and started either making more or turning its re-appearance into a huge event.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    It would feel so awkward to have her back on a team called Maurarders considering how the original screwed over her life so bad
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    Yeah, that's what I said too. Though I think it could lead to some interesting character moments for Lorna, and give her an opportunity to redefine something that was so awful for her.

    I still think she'll be involved in another title though.
    My views remain what they are, but speaking on this topic in isolation, Lorna being on a team called Marauders could a) open the door to actually acknowledging she has that history, and b) do what Soulsword said, of taking a dark moment in her past and redefining it into a positive.

    I've said for a while that I'm in favor of revisiting moments of her past where she was depicted horribly and redefining them into good things. Good in this case doesn't have to mean "all of a sudden she likes what happened." It just means it has actual characterization and developmental weight. It serves a purpose for Lorna herself, not only for whoever benefited from her getting treated badly in the past.

    Of course, revisiting Malice and the Marauders, or Zaladane, etc isn't nearly as important as revisiting her history with Genosha.
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  7. #1132
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    Dugan: Storm from an upcoming Marauders cover courtesy of @rdauterman Wait until you see who she's about to slap.

    If Lorna ends up on the title in some way this is where to look. If she isn’t then it’s likely Callisto. Storm fighting Lorna? Now that would be some Claremontian nostalgia right there.

  8. #1133
    Astonishing Member AbnormallyNormal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    Dugan: Storm from an upcoming Marauders cover courtesy of @rdauterman Wait until you see who she's about to slap.

    If Lorna ends up on the title in some way this is where to look. If she isn’t then it’s likely Callisto. Storm fighting Lorna? Now that would be some Claremontian nostalgia right there.
    Why would Storm and Lorna fight though? That would seemingly come out of nowhere.

    My preference is for Lorna to be an ally with Emma and her presence amongst the "Marauders" (the name doesn't mean much to me nor would it I think to Lorna, she'd realize Kate is just reappropriating for whatever propaganda purpose) somewhat of a spy or agent to "keep them in line" and make sure Moira's/Magneto's end goals are served. As opposed to a sort of more "gee golly whiz I love to spend time with my best friends Storm and Iceman on the high seas". Although if they wrote her that way, it could still be good and enjoyable.

    Actually I just remembered that Moira has issues and suspicions regarding Emma so perhaps Polaris' placement there could be a form of supervision on her as well. Basically I feel her role as "agent of Moira" would be best if she's on the book.

    There would certainly be potential for her mutant ability to synergize with Storm's which hasn't been done much if at all since ... 1975 lol... but when it was done , it was memorable. Ironically it involved blasting Krakoa itself into space. Still not sure how Krakoa ever returned honestly but that's another topic.

    But yeah Storm and Iceman and Pyro are all "Elementals" (and according to Hickman Storm and Iceman are Omegas) and Lorna is sort of that too, controlling one of the universe's four fundamental forces (honestly making her far more powerful than them despite not being classed as an Omega) so that would make this squad pretty absolutely "stacked" in terms of offensive capability. Like it would be very hard to imagine a serious threat to the team unless internal dissent/manipulation comes into play.

    Hmm although now that I think about it, being out on the oceans might limit how effective electromagnetism is. Water itself I don't believe has ferric content really. Unless there is some imaginative way for Lorna to manipulate aquatic life or something involving "stinging jellyfish" or other creatures I don't know... that's sort of an issue not just for her but other mutants whose powersets involve more machinery or artificial man-made constructs, given the new emphasis on biology and nature in the books.

    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    With regard to fan energy, there are myriad things that come to mind.

    One is that her fandom is more diffuse and active on broader media. One of the big reasons I posted fanart, cosplay, tweets, etc here is specifically because that's fandom that's not present on dedicated comic book boards.

    If you look at CBR appreciation threads, X-23, Magik and Rogue have fewer pages than this thread, yet Marvel does way more with them than with Lorna.

    I think Instagram and Twitter are the two best places to see fandom interest. I focus on Twitter 99% of the time because it's what I use most and it's not limited to image posts. Tumblr used to be a huge one but the adult content ban really hurt its fandom activity. Plus Tumblr has a problem with some posts not appearing in searches.
    Yeah I've noticed different social media platforms have wildly different groups of people, and fans seem to congregate much more on some than others giving you a misleading impression if you're only ever using one.

    (While The Gifted was airing, this board had at best lukewarm to tepid interest, but on Instagram there were tons of very rabid and energized fans)
    Last edited by AbnormallyNormal; 11-09-2019 at 11:42 AM.
    "So many killers... so much screaming... so many dying. I didn't know where to turn, who to help - which sentinel to stop first. And with the accusations of human judgement screaming in my ears... all I could think was that he was right. MAGNETO HAD BEEN RIGHT ALL ALONG!"

  9. #1134

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    Given a) Marvel's history and b) Duggan's tweet text ("Wait until you see who she's about to slap."), if it is Lorna, I anticipate it's going to be a traditional 70s/80s "Lorna gets beat down and written OOC" scenario.

    If it is, Marvel's once again about 3-4 years behind on where I'm looking.

    Now, if Marvel wants to do good things (instead of doing things and insisting people like it), there's a lot of potential between Lorna and Storm. There's some rough patches that a good, well-intentioned, committed writer could take the time to work out after seeing feedback. Which would in turn make Lorna and Storm into a good duo - and accomplish what Claremont could not, of envisioning two powerful women with electric powers working together.

    But that all depends on how Marvel wants to proceed.

    Quote Originally Posted by AbnormallyNormal View Post
    Yeah I've noticed different social media platforms have wildly different groups of people, and fans seem to congregate much more on some than others giving you a misleading impression if you're only ever using one.

    (While The Gifted was airing, this board had at best lukewarm to tepid interest, but on Instagram there were tons of very rabid and energized fans)
    We've also had some sentiment given on CBR that Gifted meant nothing, but it obviously meant a lot of something to countless fans who cosplayed, drew fanart, wrote fanfic (244 out of 508 Gifted fics on AO3 tag Lorna), etc.

    The show could've grown into something really great if the showrunner and writers had made moves to rectify missteps and listen to feedback. They basically did the opposite, following Marvel's method of doubling down and ignoring what people wanted.
    I can also be reached on Twitter and WordPress.

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  10. #1135
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    If Lorna does end up in Maraurders then I hope she interacts with Emma again bc I loved their interactions from Blue


  11. #1136
    Astonishing Member AbnormallyNormal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    If Lorna does end up in Maraurders then I hope she interacts with Emma again bc I loved their interactions from Blue

    Yes me too but now the shoe may be on the other foot although it all depends how she's written.
    "So many killers... so much screaming... so many dying. I didn't know where to turn, who to help - which sentinel to stop first. And with the accusations of human judgement screaming in my ears... all I could think was that he was right. MAGNETO HAD BEEN RIGHT ALL ALONG!"

  12. #1137
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbnormallyNormal View Post
    My preference is for Lorna to be an ally with Emma and her presence amongst the "Marauders" (the name doesn't mean much to me nor would it I think to Lorna, she'd realize Kate is just reappropriating for whatever propaganda purpose) somewhat of a spy or agent to "keep them in line" and make sure Moira's/Magneto's end goals are served. As opposed to a sort of more "gee golly whiz I love to spend time with my best friends Storm and Iceman on the high seas".
    I think Lorna and Emma has the most untapped potential of the relationships out there.

    I don't think Lorna will be on the Marauders to be honest. The Madripoor arc with is issues 5 and 6 is an opening and there is a slim chance if the writer remembers Lorna has a gang there and a building they are living at and could be using that somehow. That would give her an in to the storyline that doesn't come off forced or use a Claremontian plot device to make it work. But, at the same point even if Lorna is not the potential is going to stay there for the next wave.

    If writers are going for Lorna as the mostly 'straight' character personality wise to unorthodox Emma as they typically do with Jean/Emma they really need to consider how much of the warriors edge they give Lorna and how political to make her to avoid Jean/Emma redux.

    Esme and Lorna I felt worked really well before they gutted Lorna's character in the second season and did quite a bit of damage to Esme too because you had one rather hard nosed warrior and the other master manipulator. Lorna had the more dry humor of the two. I felt something along those lines could certainly be the basis for Emma and Lorna in the comics should they interact in a substantive way in the future. What say you?
    Last edited by jmc247; 11-09-2019 at 03:55 PM.

  13. #1138
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    So X-Men #1 debuted at #1 and apparently sales were very good.

    I wonder if this is the most successful and important comic that Lorna has ever had a large role in? Outside of Giant Sized of course. Something positive to be happy about.

  14. #1139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punch Dimension. View Post
    So X-Men #1 debuted at #1 and apparently sales were very good.

    I wonder if this is the most successful and important comic that Lorna has ever had a large role in? Outside of Giant Sized of course. Something positive to be happy about.
    I think you have to separate the eras in terms of comics sales. X-Men was struggling hard when she came onto the scene in 1968 and then averaging 270K copies an issue which X-Men was doing was at the time considered weak sauce. Comics were cheap as hell then and could be bought at a great many grocery stores or gas stations.

    By 2005 that a number was considered a strong start to a company wide crossover like HoM. In terms of the modern era for comics which I broadly consider after the speculative comic books bubble popping at the start of the 90s it looks like it will be close to the top or at the top sales wise for a depiction of Lorna where you actually get a sense of the character.

    HoX #5 already with its 140K before the reprints was the most read comic Lorna had a real role in for a non-company wide crossover since the early 90s. I am sure X-Men #1 will do better. I am hoping it breaks 200K and when you add digital which is about 25% of comic sales that would be the best selling modern era comic Lorna has had a real role in. The positive is that Hickman did really well with her right off the bat which should pay dividends.

    I only hope it leads to better things as in the character back in games and having some role to come on Krakoa. In terms of overall Marvel promotion she isn’t where she was in 2014 much less 2004. Let’s hope that changes.
    Last edited by jmc247; 11-09-2019 at 10:55 PM.

  15. #1140
    Astonishing Member AbnormallyNormal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    I think Lorna and Emma has the most untapped potential of the relationships out there.

    I don't think Lorna will be on the Marauders to be honest. The Madripoor arc with is issues 5 and 6 is an opening and there is a slim chance if the writer remembers Lorna has a gang there and a building they are living at and could be using that somehow. That would give her an in to the storyline that doesn't come off forced or use a Claremontian plot device to make it work. But, at the same point even if Lorna is not the potential is going to stay there for the next wave.

    If writers are going for Lorna as the mostly 'straight' character personality wise to unorthodox Emma as they typically do with Jean/Emma they really need to consider how much of the warriors edge they give Lorna and how political to make her to avoid Jean/Emma redux.

    Esme and Lorna I felt worked really well before they gutted Lorna's character in the second season and did quite a bit of damage to Esme too because you had one rather hard nosed warrior and the other master manipulator. Lorna had the more dry humor of the two. I felt something along those lines could certainly be the basis for Emma and Lorna in the comics should they interact in a substantive way in the future. What say you?
    Yes I hoped that was where BLUE was going with having Lorna and Emma both around. Bunn said he never watched the show though but yeah, to me it felt like an effort to capitalize on that concept or theme.

    I still think the problem is Emma is like an A-lister and known as the morally grey female X-character while Lorna is B or even C list right now and if fans think of her at all (which they largely don't) it's like "Oh yeah she used to be with Havok" or "I heard she might be Magneto's daughter? Didn't that keep changing" those are the most typical responses I've heard about her. So trying to get Lorna and Emma into this grand duo would feel artificial or forced to a lot of Emma fans probably. Esme Cuckoo would work of course though but then we get the issue that Esme is literally a derivative of Emma and it might bring Lorna's stature down some to pair her or bounce her off of Esme (plus that's exactly copying the show then , probably should mix it up some more).

    On the last "your suggested team book" thread I came up with this what do you think?:

    Polaris
    Frenzy
    Mystique
    Domino
    Kwannon
    Elixir
    Daken

    To me those are characters who Lorna could plausibly lead on a squad, she has a bit more prominence or "cred" than they do, and yet they aren't utterly obscure, and there is fan excitement behind them largely. Also they are characters who are more ambiguous in terms of their ideological leanings or their propensities towards violence etc.

    When this topic arises I always say I prefer for Lorna to be paired with characters who are roughly "on her level" of stature, like if you try to force her onto a team alongside the likes of Jean Grey, Ororo Munroe, Rogue, and all of them... our gal will just be sidelined and overshadowed and not developed. They'll probably revert or regress her (we saw this with Rosenburg's Uncanny take on her). So I'm not super interested in that.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    I think you have to separate the eras in terms of comics sales. X-Men was struggling hard when she came onto the scene in 1968 and then averaging 270K copies an issue which X-Men was doing was weak sauce. Comics were cheap as hell then and could be bought at a great many grocery stores or gas stations. By 2005 that a number was considered a strong start to a company wide crossover like HoM.

    In terms of the modern era for comics which I broadly consider after the speculative comic books bubble popping at the start of the 90s it looks like it will be close to the top or at the top sales wise for a depiction of Lorna where you actually get a sense of the character.

    HoX #5 already with its 140K before the reprints was the most read comic Lorna had a real role in for a non-company wide crossover since the early 90s. I am sure X-Men #1 will do better. I am hoping it breaks 200K and when you add digital which is about 25% of comic sales that would be the best selling modern era comic Lorna has had a real role in.

    I only hope it leads to better things as in the character back in games and having some role to come on Krakoa. In terms of overall Marvel promotion she isn’t where she was in 2014 much less 2004. Let’s hope that changes.
    I think you're right, and Polaris in the TV show "The Gifted" did much more to boost awareness of her as a character and interest in her than her role in that book.

    But yes Punch Dimension, I am very happy comics fans generally received Lorna well in her appearance! For sure. Even the fans who still seem to think of her as a Havok love interest were glad to see her, and I welcome their support. I didn't really hear anyone freaking out or complaining about her being "an accomplice to evil" the way she was helping out her dad battle humans. So you're right we should take time out and appreciate the positives.
    "So many killers... so much screaming... so many dying. I didn't know where to turn, who to help - which sentinel to stop first. And with the accusations of human judgement screaming in my ears... all I could think was that he was right. MAGNETO HAD BEEN RIGHT ALL ALONG!"

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