Polaris: Lorna Dane Appreciation 2019

[jmc247]

The Starjammers in Brubaker's run were an excuse to get a handful of characters out of the X-books. Almost no one was reading those other tie-in books at the time.

Agreed, it was devastating for the characters visibility and viability and while I think Rachel recovered in the comics by 2018, but Lorna still hasn’t reached where she was in the early to mid ‘00s or anything close to that regardless of what one might feel about Morrison and Austen.

We have debated the A-C list question before and I prefer not to get into it again only to say Lorna was a much hotter and more debated character in 2004 then in any time since. Some prefer characters having their independence to grow even it it sacrifices viability. Lorna neither grew in space and it had her visibility sacrificed.

As for the other issue of Lorna and Magneto. The key is Lorna to have her own history recognized with Genosha and other events and to have a solid POV. I don't think Blue did that and wrote her as much more a blog standard X-Man to accentuate his depth. I liked Bunn's Magneto, but his Lorna came off as green haired Jean only with a higher opinion of Mags and that doesn't fit Lorna nor her history nor is it good for her. So far I see nothing wrong with what Hickman has done with Lorna, but he also hasn't done much either.

Bunn never wanted to write Blue in large part because it was oriented towards too young a readership, but editorial bribed him by letting him use his boy Magneto. If I was going to tweak Blue's story I would have had Emma much more reasonable and building New Tian and working with Lorna in conflict with a Magneto who is trying to embrace Xavier's values. None of this crazy Emma working with a Sentinel garbage.

Bunn fell into the old habit of the idea Lorna can not be philosophically harder then Magneto at a given time even when he is trying out Xavierism. Marvel should work with where it makes sense for both characters to be at philosophically based on events. Forced conflict doesn't do either of them any good, its issues that rise from within the story and the characters history that make it interesting.

[Master of Sound]

Wonder where Polaris ends up. Probably somewhere where Archanhel turns up. As he's missing so far as well.

[salarta]

I miss when Lorna and Rachel were in space together, I thought they made a good team. Their powers compliment each other and they are both very mobile and can fly.

I guess I go to Exiles because I think that's the only place Rachel can go, there are too many telepaths so she isn't needed. I imagine Lorna will get something to do, hopefully she does more than act as a character her father can discuss things with, she actually does need something to do beyond just being her father's sounding board.

Time in space is another one of those things where some things were good, some not. The potential of Lorna and Rachel interacting was good. Being stuck in space, however, was not. It cut Lorna off from ongoing events, and served as a way for Marvel to pretend Genosha never happened to her. And force her back into relationship with Havok to be his supporting character arm candy girlfriend, of course.

In the comics, right now is a pretty sensitive time for Lorna and dynamics with her father. It's largely untapped. That means it can go a lot of different ways, and the "she exists just to be a sounding board/puppet for her father" direction is one of the worst. It would basically repeat everything Marvel did wrong with her dynamic with Havok. In Havok's case, we have decades of Lorna treated poorly that's hard for writers to not slip into repeating. In Magneto's, it's fairly new... though that past Havok treatment does bring the risk of Lorna being treated badly around men in general. Just as we saw in things like Lorna's treatment around Gambit in ANXF #4-6, or Lorna's treatment around Magneto in the earlier issues of Blue.

This is all why Lorna needs things that are uniquely hers acknowledged and used. Marvel ignoring them for things like HoX/PoX/DoX just demonstrates how little respect they have for her as a character in her own right, and how Marvel's liable to treat her as a result.

[salarta]

Now feels like a decent time for more tweet posting.







As for that 26 & 27 tweet, that was for a favorite characters thread. I think it says a bit of something that they're so close together and paired up on a tweet, insofar as persisting interest in them as sisters.

[powerpax]

We have debated the A-C list question before and I prefer not to get into it again only to say Lorna was a much hotter and more debated character in 2004 then in any time since.

Well, I don't want to get into it again either but all I'll say is that from where I was standing in 2004, no character that wasn't already 'hot' or mainstream popular was coming off of Austen's run more popular or valued, except for possibly Juggernaut. The entire run was considered a washout and people just wanted it over. It was a nightmare. At that time, Lorna was best known for being turned into a cartoon bridezilla in one of Austen's many "worst in X-Men history" plotlines. There's no value I could find in it then or now. You can disagree, but we've both been over this before and I don't see the point of going back into it.

I didn't find Bunn's writing inspiring for almost anyone really, so I have no commentary on that. AFAIC Polaris was what she is in most stories, a placeholder. They don't know how to commit to the characterization because no one has much of a clear idea who Lorna Dane is and almost no one has bothered with it since the '60s. Claremont's stories were complex and did not come entirely to fruition, nor would everyone have necessarily been happy if they had (Lorna becoming "Synergy," etc). PAD's approach varied wildly and I only liked some of it. Morrison did a single issue. That's about it for me.

[jmc247]

Well, I don't want to get into it again either but all I'll say is that from where I was standing in 2004, no character that wasn't already 'hot' or mainstream popular was coming off of Austen's run more popular or valued, except for possibly Juggernaut. The entire run was considered a washout and people just wanted it over. It was a nightmare. At that time, Lorna was best known for being turned into a cartoon bridezilla in one of Austen's many "worst in X-Men history" plotlines. There's no value I could find in it then or now. You can disagree, but we've both been over this before and I don't see the point of going back into it.

I didn't find Bunn's writing inspiring for almost anyone really, so I have no commentary on that. AFAIC Polaris was what she is in most stories, a placeholder. They don't know how to commit to the characterization because no one has much of a clear idea who Lorna Dane is and almost no one has bothered with it since the '60s. Claremont's stories were complex and did not come entirely to fruition, nor would everyone have necessarily been happy if they had (Lorna becoming "Synergy," etc). PAD's approach varied wildly and I only liked some of it. Morrison did a single issue. That's about it for me.

Claremont used her as a plot device. I know you love the guy for what he did for the franchise, but she was used under Claremont to further other characters stories. She was not an actual character in her own right in his run.

PAD's issue with Lorna, well there was a lot of issues. He believed she had no center, no real interest in mutant issues or a mutant identity with her. But, he tried with her and expanded on existing relationships and built new ones which is more then I can say for many other writers.

JM was the best of her 1990s writers in that he gave her an interest in politics and a mutant identity, but he sort of wussed out half way though his run, backed away from what he was doing there and fell back onto love triangle crap and generic hero BS. But, for the X-Factor 90-98 at least the character felt like she was growing before that ended.

Milligan had a few good moments with her, but his run by in large fell back onto tried tropes with the character and cut her off from the relationships she had been building under Austen and cut things down to the old Bobby/Havok/Lorna love triangle. He also way overdid the mental instability angle.

Lorna's 60s writers had some good ideas, especially the first ones, but the story became a mess. Alan Davis and her Genosha era writers basically recreated a lot of the storyline ideas from her first storyline without creating the same mess, but also without going all the way and reconstituting her parentage.

Morrison had the idea to turn her into a genocide survivor along with Emma and a worse version then Emma went though given her actual nervous system was fried channeling the memories of millions of dead. For those who love Claremont you know what happens to an EM manipulator who has a damaged nervous system.

Austen you know my view. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if not for his run.

DnA did an amazing job with the political side of the character, but not the warrior side. Yost did a solid job with the warrior side, but not the political side. Brubaker did an all around terrible job with the character.

I will give Hickman credit so far for seeing that Lorna works better not as green haired Jean which is the most common mistake writers fall into, but I reserve making a more solid judgement until I at very least see X-Men #1.

[AbnormallyNormal]

It's interesting to me the influence of The Gifted on Lorna among fandom. Her aesthetic has shifted from the old all green costuming to more open to black leather, chains, etc. There's also more openness to her older costume with the skulls on it.

It's almost like contemporary fans can embrace a more militant or "tougher" version of the character, which in their mind befits her status as daughter of Magneto (and sister to Wanda). Quickie is normally left out in the fan art/cosplays lol

Again to me... I would strike while the iron is hot so to speak if I was Marvel creative, and take advantage of this space to somewhat begin to rebrand or kind of shift the character out of her old ways as "Havok armcandy" and "Poor man's Jean" and have her embrace what really sets her apart, which is her more skeptical or world-weary take on events, and her somewhat tumultuous background. She shouldn't be all happy go lucky really....

It's a missed opportunity not only for her not to be in the position Kate Pryde is, but also she should be in , say, Kwannon's position in Fallen Angels then. Or something of that sort. I guess Lorna believes strongly in Krakoa so not that particular team or book but still.

[salarta]

Again to me... I would strike while the iron is hot so to speak if I was Marvel creative, and take advantage of this space to somewhat begin to rebrand or kind of shift the character out of her old ways as "Havok armcandy" and "Poor man's Jean" and have her embrace what really sets her apart, which is her more skeptical or world-weary take on events, and her somewhat tumultuous background. She shouldn't be all happy go lucky really....

It's a missed opportunity not only for her not to be in the position Kate Pryde is, but also she should be in , say, Kwannon's position in Fallen Angels then. Or something of that sort. I guess Lorna believes strongly in Krakoa so not that particular team or book but still.

When it comes to writing, good writing of characters is a journey. Lorna's journey to date has been:

• Powers awaken and cause a plane crash, after which her powers get sealed (or "sealed")
• Lives an apparently normal teenage life, unaware of her heritage
• Awakens to said heritage and powers
• Written to leave the X-Men (at least pursues higher education in the process)
• Lots of mind control/possession/hate directed at her on a personal level
• Member of a government-sponsored mutant team
• Key member of Genosha
• Genoshan genocide survivor, lots of mental health issues, praised as queen of mutants and return of her as daughter of Magneto
• Family member in House of M
• Power loss and subsequent identity crisis, leaving X-Men in the process
• Abducted and turned into Pestilence
• Leaves to see world again, gets hunted by anti-Apocalypse cult
• Time in space, where she's tortured, spends time with Crystal and Luna, and helps establish Crystal as a "peoples' princess"
• Return to X-Factor where she discovers her lost origins
• Leadership at Serval Industries, where gets closer to Pietro and Wanda, and almost has a romance with Gambit

And then everything of the past few years. In that, she's basically had a character arc of naive optimism, to getting taken advantage of, to being attacked and hated, to trying to help the world become better, to witnessing the greatest horrors in humanity, to starting to find and embrace both her birthright/history and leadership potential for herself. Where she's at right now, Lorna wouldn't really be a follower. She's at a point where she'd feel she's done enough following and letting others decide her life and how the world should see her. She would be exhibiting more independence than Marvel has been comfortable with letting her display.

[AbnormallyNormal]

When it comes to writing, good writing of characters is a journey. Lorna's journey to date has been:

• Powers awaken and cause a plane crash, after which her powers get sealed (or "sealed")
• Lives an apparently normal teenage life, unaware of her heritage
• Awakens to said heritage and powers
• Written to leave the X-Men (at least pursues higher education in the process)
• Lots of mind control/possession/hate directed at her on a personal level
• Member of a government-sponsored mutant team
• Key member of Genosha
• Genoshan genocide survivor, lots of mental health issues, praised as queen of mutants and return of her as daughter of Magneto
• Family member in House of M
• Power loss and subsequent identity crisis, leaving X-Men in the process
• Abducted and turned into Pestilence
• Leaves to see world again, gets hunted by anti-Apocalypse cult
• Time in space, where she's tortured, spends time with Crystal and Luna, and helps establish Crystal as a "peoples' princess"
• Return to X-Factor where she discovers her lost origins
• Leadership at Serval Industries, where gets closer to Pietro and Wanda, and almost has a romance with Gambit

And then everything of the past few years. In that, she's basically had a character arc of naive optimism, to getting taken advantage of, to being attacked and hated, to trying to help the world become better, to witnessing the greatest horrors in humanity, to starting to find and embrace both her birthright/history and leadership potential for herself. Where she's at right now, Lorna wouldn't really be a follower. She's at a point where she'd feel she's done enough following and letting others decide her life and how the world should see her. She would be exhibiting more independence than Marvel has been comfortable with letting her display.

I agree. She really should be doing some leading.

I guess that is different from Kitty's situation where she seems to be getting wrapped up in political schemes of Emma. For Lorna she would be more of a like "knowing co conspirator" and any alliance would be with total awareness.

I also agree just plopping Lorna as a footsoldier onto some team (like XForce) isn't quite ideal

SHe really should be involved in some type of leadership capacity but Marvel lets her dad do all of that stuff that she should be involved with

[powerpax]

Claremont used her as a plot device. I know you love the guy for what he did for the franchise, but she was used under Claremont to further other characters stories. She was not an actual character in her own right in his run.

Well, that's debatable and it was also truncated. Yet whatever your opinion, the Malice/Muir Island arc is one of the few notable and interesting stories she has had since the '60s. When people think Polaris that era is one of the first (and only) things they think of.

JM was the best of her 1990s writers in that he gave her an interest in politics and a mutant identity, but he sort of wussed out half way though his run, backed away from what he was doing there and fell back onto love triangle crap and generic hero BS. But, for the X-Factor 90-98 at least the character felt like she was growing before that ended.

If you mean John Francis Moore I found it quite bland.

[jmc247]

I agree. She really should be doing some leading.

I guess that is different from Kitty's situation where she seems to be getting wrapped up in political schemes of Emma. For Lorna she would be more of a like "knowing co conspirator" and any alliance would be with total awareness.

I also agree just plopping Lorna as a footsoldier onto some team (like XForce) isn't quite ideal

SHe really should be involved in some type of leadership capacity but Marvel lets her dad do all of that stuff that she should be involved with

She should be leading a team or at the forefront of mutant politics. And, yes things have become very tough for her since Magneto joined the X-Men full time and had his more extreme militant features taken away. As a reaction Marvel felt the need to reduce Lorna's own hard edge to show off the difference that didn't do her any favors. Hickman seems much more ok then Bunn in allowing her to have some of those features, but we will see how that goes.

I would like to see Lorna one day in the top tier of mutants alongside her 60s contemporaries. That isn't going to happen without checking off a few boxes. The most important of which is having a voice and a clear set of views and a clear set of relationships with the core x-characters. Showing her worth as more then super powered muscle would probably be next. Fans have to be able to see her as either a possible leader or a shrewd political manipulator, not a character to be led or manipulated.

The Gifted season 2 blew their chance to have a really great set up for the Hellfire Club of two queens one of them who prefers to act as the military head of the group... Lorna and one of them the behind the scenes manipulator with Esme. I felt they gutted both characters in season 2. Between that, green haired Jean on Blue, and the disaster that was Lorna's X-Men Disassembled depiction I pretty much lost any real hope for the character going forward. That hasn't changed and Lorna maybe being on wave two certainly hasn't changed my view in that regard.

Disassembled showed me that some fans who harbor a grudge toward Magneto getting so many of the things they believe Lorna deserves can be blinded to a poor depiction of the character which will get her nowhere by a writer seemingly having her be the primary instead of the secondary to Mags. I am angry for a decade and a half of Magneto getting so many things that could have gone to Lorna and her character being turned back into green haired Jean in part to create forced differences between them. But, I am not angry at a fictional character over it. I am more angry at how the creative staff has dealt with the situation with Lorna after making Magneto a full time X-Man again.

I was disappointed with Bunn and his depiction of her, so far I am not disappointed in Hickman's depiction of her outside the set up giving her no in with mutant politics on the Island or leadership role as one of its generals or captains or whatever they are calling them.

[salarta]

There's been much said of Hickman's run being over a year in the making. To the point where the character deaths on Rosenberg's run are sometimes seen as happening purely to lead into Hickman's run.

If this is true, then would it be fair to assume that how Lorna's been treated since a year ago reflects how Hickman sees Lorna and where he thinks she should go?

[powerpax]

There's been much said of Hickman's run being over a year in the making. To the point where the character deaths on Rosenberg's run are sometimes seen as happening purely to lead into Hickman's run.

If this is true, then would it be fair to assume that how Lorna's been treated since a year ago reflects how Hickman sees Lorna and where he thinks she should go?

No, unless you also think he intended for Emma to be hated and despised, which is demonstrably untrue. Among many other things.

[jmc247]

X-Men Disassembled and Age of X-Man were about wiping the board from the concepts set up by the colored titles writers including Magneto's Brotherhood, Jean's mutant nation concept, etc.

Lorna wasn't going to be included in X-Men Disassembled, but Kelly Thompson I believe said she had an idea for it. At that point I don't think Lorna's depiction or Magneto for that matter had anything to do with Hickman's vision. It was just disassembling the line. There was nothing wrong on paper with Lorna confronting a mind controlled Magneto or fighting with him. It was simply the set up basically assumed Lorna a blog-standard x-character with a hostile view of Magneto in general. With a few tweaks it could have been a strong moment.

At this point its pretty clear they were already doing set up with the mutant cure angle for mutants to leave to a separate mutant nation. That big idea was already in the process of formulation, but you didn't see the X-Men talk much about that or have a big problem. It would be the sort of thing Lorna would have had a huge problem with and post Genosha would have wiped out the labs herself out of the belief the cure now volentary would soon be involentary once they run out of mutants signing up.

As for Age of X-Man it was in part influenced by a Lorna storyline live action, but I also think we were starting to see by then more influence from the writer who represents a new generation of fans. Rosenberg at the same time was executing Hickman's plans for getting the mutants fed up with humanity, but he wasn't the guy to execute such a storyline well being a hyper fan of 1991 X-Factor which had a totally different take on mutant-human relations. Good mutants like Havok with the government having their back vs bad mutants like Emma is the early 90s thinking. He had a certain Summers brother give his life to stop a sentinel and all sorts of stuff along those lines, but not a very good execution it felt to convince me that certain very intrigrationalist X-Men saw the route as the only one to go.

Current Lorna is very easy to buy given the events of the past year, but the problem is we have to make assumptions on how Lorna got back to this point as unlike with Austen you didn't see Lorna think about or comment on the mutant cure or the Sentinels or provide an actual mutant rights POV... only to comment where is Alex? That was the impact of having a writer whose nostalgic era was the start 90s.

I think Prisoner of X was in part intended to be a testing ground for the audience view on a more aggressive Lorna with some of the traits that made Austen era or TG season 1 Lorna popular.

Leah Williams and Vita Ayala are both going to be writing wave 2 titles, perhaps together or not we don't know. Both have talked up in the past two years a more progressive view on Lorna that isn't buried in bad 80s or 90s nostagia and Vita demonstrated he can write one as well. Though creating a successful ongoing series in this market is very hard for new writers they at least have a view on the character that I think her next writer needs to have. I think Claremont will be getting a wave two title as well and lets just say I respect the man, but he had muliple tries to get it right with her and I am done buying his attempts with her. The last comic I will ever buy of his with Lorna in it had her hysterically crying to Scott in X-Men Forever about a decade ago saying she doesn't care about Genosha she only cares about Alex and now she has nothing.

Best case is Leah Williams and Vita have something which will include her and elements of the Hellfire Club, Acolytes or others. There are a lot of good options like Lorna and others rebuilding Genosha as a colony of Krakoa. But, I really think no title unless its by a super star writer that doesn't stay connected to current events on Krakoa prime will last very long. Hickman being a strong writer only goes so far in helping deal with the underlying dynamics in terms of comic book readership.

[salarta]

No, unless you also think he intended for Emma to be hated and despised, which is demonstrably untrue. Among many other things.

Then I suppose it depends on what "level" we're looking at - the broad strokes (i.e. character death as a thematic lead-in to no death) vs the details (i.e. what happens with a character with one writer differs from another writer).

I still wonder, though, if the general "involvement" of some characters can be taken as a cue. I noticed that X-Men Blue bent over backwards to hype Havok up prior to him leading a team book, to the point where what looked to be Lorna's big return to comics actually ended up being all about Havok. Would that have happened if there were no plans for Havok?

FYI, I say this knowing that if true, it would go against some things I've said and go with others. It's about considering possibilities and where they might lead more than anything else.