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  1. #511

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    It's time for a new set of tweet showcasing, since the recent discussion has kinda dried things up a bit.



    This tweet has a few replies as of this post. They posted another tweet of characters who need to have a solo series.

    This is a point where I should add that yes, sometimes I'll feature tweets from the same account multiple times. What matters is a) the interest it demonstrates, and b) how that interest persists. Fandom doesn't up and vanish just cause Marvel isn't doing things with it.

    Also, seeing the Storm fan account's reply gives me more hope for a potential future of all good vibes in Lorna and Storm goings on.



    It'll be interesting to see what plays out if things go the way I think they are, given how much I've seen fans latch onto this as a Polaris connection.



    Same.


    This image continues to be the one I see most often in tweets, and I think it happens to be the best spot of Bunn's writing of her (vs a lot of things I complained about). It acknowledges that Lorna is Magneto's daughter, but doesn't make it all that defines her. It's a good template. And I think other fans resonate with it specifically cause it's a great distillation of how to best understand her in relation to Magneto (and men in general).
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  2. #512
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    As much as I love Magneto, I think its time Marvel retire him and let Polaris succeed him. He doesnt need to go away, but Id be all for her taking over his legacy and he being fully supportive of propelling her forward bc she more than any of his other kids embodies his ideologies. In the same way that Jean and more so Cyclops took over for Xavier, I feel Lorna should have been allowed to do so for Magneto. Its the natural and logical step in her character arc, but sadly they've stagnated her growth potential for years. Bunn left her in a good position, about to start a school and lead mutants, but that was quickly ignored.

  3. #513

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    I have a strange blend of feelings on Lorna and legacy with Magneto. I don't think she should simply slot into his role, but I do think she should sort of pick up where he left off.

    I'm thinking of it like famous celebrity families. In the beginning, a young celebrity in the family tends to be known for their family associations. "Oh, Jamie Lee Curtis is the daughter of Janet Leigh." But over time, their personal accomplishments let them stand on their own. "Oh, it's Jamie Lee Curtis! I remember her from Halloween, and Scream Queens, and, and, and-" A natural progression is for the parent to help their child forge their own path in life. The dynamics between Lorna and Magneto have the makings for that, given the decades apart and Lorna growing up unaware that Magneto was her father.

    My headcanon in this regard is that Magneto opted to let her foster parents raise her both for Lorna's protection and to let her grow into her own person, not just a young female ideological clone. She lived her life thinking she was an ordinary human with a weird quirk that made her feel out of place enough to hide it. She has fresh eyes of not experiencing a Holocaust-like situation in her youth like Magneto did, but as an adult. She also got heavily involved with the X-Men and came to know their philosophy before Magneto's.

    Lorna would be a good case of evolution in terms of family legacy. Not just genetics. Ideology, and causes. Her original storyline called her Queen of Mutants, not Princess, for a reason.

    From this, I feel like the "heir of Magneto" part applies well to her, but she also should be forging a new path. With thoughts, feelings and ideas that Magneto would never embrace. My understanding of him is he tends to be fairly stoic. Lorna can be more bleeding heart in her advocacy of mutants. Magneto's concept tends to be more vengeful bogeyman in the dark. Lorna's can be more of a hero of justice with a dark edge you really do not want to make her whip out. Because maybe this time she won't be able to stop herself from taking it to finality.

    If you want to build a nation or a movement, you need to be an inspirational figure. Magneto was inspirational by authority. Lorna can be inspirational by example.
    Last edited by salarta; 08-08-2019 at 08:02 PM.
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  4. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    As much as I love Magneto, I think its time Marvel retire him and let Polaris succeed him. He doesnt need to go away, but Id be all for her taking over his legacy and he being fully supportive of propelling her forward bc she more than any of his other kids embodies his ideologies. In the same way that Jean and more so Cyclops took over for Xavier, I feel Lorna should have been allowed to do so for Magneto. Its the natural and logical step in her character arc, but sadly they've stagnated her growth potential for years. Bunn left her in a good position, about to start a school and lead mutants, but that was quickly ignored.
    She has run into a wall in regards to character growth. Her trying to lead a mutants rights movement was the next logical step after Uncanny X-Men 443 a full decade and a half ago, but Magneto not long after came back and Lorna suddenly lost all interest in mutant rights.

    Lorna's story in the comics has had micro focuses since Uncanny X-Men 443, but no overarching focus. Her early Genosha story at the start was basically a modernized reprise of her 1960s story down to her wearing a skull choker and Bobby trying to convince her not to follow Magneto. It would have ended there and she would have been back with Havok and married to him if not for what happened to Genosha as we know.

    Magneto's death freed up Lorna's early 2000s writers to feel secure in dealing with how the Genoshan genocide impacted her and how she sees herself and sees mutant-human relations. It was different from Magneto and quite unique. But, not long after he returned she returned to being stuck unable to move forward. They haven't touched Lorna and how Genosha the biggest event in her life impacted her for 15 years lets face it part of that is because some writers don't care about her, but others I suspect view it too much her father’s story while Bunn and several other writers had Magneto himself talk about, have flashbacks to the Genoshan genocide in length.

    Right now I would say Lorna as a character has no overarching focus or rudder and hasn't for a very long time. I would like a situation were Magneto didn't have to die to move her story forward out of the hole its been stuck in.

    I think her relationships with the other X-Men and X-Women are stuck in a huge ditch too. Lorna spent ten issues with the A list x-women in Uncanny Disassembled and it didn't gain her non-existent friendships with the other x-women one millimeter of traction. The foundations that Lorna’s relationships to the other X-Men are built upon are so rotten they need to be torched to move forward otherwise they are just trying to build a house on a shattered foundation. Conflict to cooperation to friendship is the path to building something that lasts and is remembered.
    Last edited by jmc247; 08-09-2019 at 06:45 AM.

  5. #515
    mutant and proud ermac's Avatar
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    What would you guys think about Lorna being a member of an Avengers team?
    I'm reading: Batman - Daredevil - East of West - Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman - House of X / Powers of Ten - Immortal Hulk - Runaways

  6. #516
    Astonishing Member The_Greatest_Username's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ermac View Post
    What would you guys think about Lorna being a member of an Avengers team?
    Depending on the team/mission, I think it could be an interesting change.

  7. #517
    Incredible Member powerpax's Avatar
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    It would require the right writer on the books and an A-list commitment from Marvel to that title - like when Hickman had the books and put Sam and Bobby on the main team. That was huge for the New Mutants and changed everything. But I'd be for it. If it was a more fallow Avengers down period it wouldn't get noticed.

  8. #518
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    I think so much of the logical next step for Polaris would require Magneto to be benched IMO. I wouldn't want writers to just make Lorna Magneto 2.0 however. I'd like her to be able to put her own stamp on carrying his legacy forward, and not just feel like a carbon copy for the sake of having a version of him around. Though I don't think that day will ever come. Magneto is too popular a character, and I don't think you have to one or the other. I don't want a Rachel situation where she disappears when they bring Jean back around, and that's something that could happen if their characters become too similar.

    I'd always prefer for Lorna to be on the X side of things, but an Avengers squad is probably the closest she'd get to further developing her relationships with Wanda and Pietro. Quicksilver's time with the X-Men will probably always be limited, and I don't ever see Scarlet Witch joining the X-Men.

  9. #519
    Incredible Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Magneto is never going to be benched. So the best option for Lorna, short of becoming his right hand (which is possible), is to strike out in a different book.

  10. #520
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    Storm and many, many other X-Women. Up until very recently before Fall of the Mutants, Jean was dead and Claremont didn't want her back. He did not write her in a main book again until he was ready to leave the company. In fact, he was writing for Lorna more.
    IDA on Jean. Claremont would have gladly had her if he could but she largely was off the table for him bc Simonson had her. Still he was able to bring Jean on for an arc when the X-men were lost post-Siege and he wrote the final issues of X-Factor with her. These obviously dont count the crossovers either

  11. #521
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    I'd be perfectly fine with Polaris continuing to work along side Magneto. Just so long as they got a team book this time, with them headlining, and not as supporting character to the 05 like in Blue. Would love to see a Brotherhood of Mutants book.

  12. #522
    Incredible Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    IDA on Jean. Claremont would have gladly had her if he could but she largely was off the table for him bc Simonson had her.
    Claremont is on record saying he begged editorial not to bring her back when someone (maybe Louise herself, or Ann Nocenti) took him out to dinner, got him drunk and then broke the news about her resurrection after the office switchboard was down for the night. Said he almost quit over it, pitched Shooter using Sara Grey instead, etc. He hadn't wanted Jean killed in Dark Phoenix, but once it was done it was done for him. His treatment of the character from then on was passive at best, IMO. Partly bc she was mostly in other books, of course, but even when he came back he made a point to write a (bad) Madelyne closure arc in The End (a terrible book). I don't think he bears Jean any ill will today or even then really, but his sympathies and priorities back then were with the X-Men proper as well as Maddy, who he'd created, and what he felt Jean's return and the X-Factor pitch did to Scott, Maddy, etc.

  13. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    Magneto is never going to be benched. So the best option for Lorna, short of becoming his right hand (which is possible), is to strike out in a different book.
    Nobody has committed to a real 616 story line with her being his right hand/adviser. She stood in for him at times when he was injured (X-Men #51-52), New X-Men 99, UXM #380. She was... Jean said it best his 'apprentice' on Genosha. She helped him out on Blue train the 05 and stood in Jean's place when they disappeared for a short time. We didn't learn a lot about Lorna on Blue with Briar as Magneto's right hand and debating contentious issues in Bunn's run.

    The closest time she has ever acted as his adviser was in the House of M universe in two of the minis Civil War HoM and Secret Wars HoM. It was well done (at least from Lorna's end) and it was sort of what I was hoping for when I saw the HoM section on the new homeland. In terms or roles Esme so far is his sounding board and Mystique his in the field assistant. I doubt we haven't seen the full team line up behind him its possible she is his adviser of sorts on the island.

    In terms of a role if Magneto breaks away and gets his own team ongoing it would be worth it if written by someone who respects Lorna's own depth and history as a character. If it goes the Dark Seduction route of nave waif getting used by bad dad not so much. Lorna has to be sold as a character of substance and a real chess player. If they commit to the role and don't half ass it she could lobby it onto a core title and have a few years worth of stories to work through things with the other X-Men or for that matter Avengers. It would be more of a patch for a few years then a solution to her problems, but there is no easy long term solution in this time in this market.

  14. #524
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    Claremont is on record saying he begged editorial not to bring her back when someone (maybe Louise herself, or Ann Nocenti) took him out to dinner, got him drunk and then broke the news about her resurrection after the office switchboard was down for the night. Said he almost quit over it, pitched Shooter using Sara Grey instead, etc. He hadn't wanted Jean killed in Dark Phoenix, but once it was done it was done for him. His treatment of the character from then on was passive at best, IMO. Partly bc she was mostly in other books, of course, but even when he came back he made a point to write a (bad) Madelyne closure arc in The End (a terrible book). I don't think he bears Jean any ill will today or even then really, but his sympathies and priorities back then were with the X-Men proper as well as Maddy, who he'd created, and what he felt Jean's return and the X-Factor pitch did to Scott, Maddy, etc.
    Claremont didnt want her brought back but once she was, I beleive he would have wanted to tell her narrative, as opposed to her being completely out of his hands. He had little say and didnt have a choice bc she was bound to another book. As I mentioned though, he did want to use her and Simsonson loaned the character to him when the X-men were disbanded post-Siege. When he returned, he had the Revolution books and Jean was a part of his cast. He didnt have to write her as he was given a fair amount of freedom but he chose her bc he wanted to. She was also one of his pets over in X-Men Forever.
    Last edited by Havok83; 08-09-2019 at 03:54 PM.

  15. #525

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    Quote Originally Posted by ermac View Post
    What would you guys think about Lorna being a member of an Avengers team?
    IF the Avengers books are willing to treat her with respect, then I would be all for it.

    I was actually highly supportive of the idea of her on Uncanny Avengers with Wanda about 4-6 years back. Even used to point out that she's been in almost nothing outside X-Men. Her big obstacle is bias against her on the Avengers side. That led to things like excluding her from Avengers vs X-Men and Axis (latter even trying to replace her with Enchantress), also trying to replace Lorna with Luminous on Uncanny Avengers, and having a House of M portrait redrawn to remove Lorna. But, there's bias against her at the X-office for the past few years too. So it's not like Avengers books are special anymore in screwing her out of things.

    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    Claremont is on record saying he begged editorial not to bring her back when someone (maybe Louise herself, or Ann Nocenti) took him out to dinner, got him drunk and then broke the news about her resurrection after the office switchboard was down for the night. Said he almost quit over it, pitched Shooter using Sara Grey instead, etc. He hadn't wanted Jean killed in Dark Phoenix, but once it was done it was done for him. His treatment of the character from then on was passive at best, IMO. Partly bc she was mostly in other books, of course, but even when he came back he made a point to write a (bad) Madelyne closure arc in The End (a terrible book). I don't think he bears Jean any ill will today or even then really, but his sympathies and priorities back then were with the X-Men proper as well as Maddy, who he'd created, and what he felt Jean's return and the X-Factor pitch did to Scott, Maddy, etc.
    Do you have outside sources on this? I'm not interrogating you or questioning what you're saying here. In light of JDW claiming there's no writer interest (among other things he claimed), this would make Dark Phoenix into excellent proof of how making a writer write a character they don't "want" to write can lead to great work that people cherish and repeat endlessly. Alongside already existing cases of how Peter David and Chuck Austen each didn't really wanna write Lorna when they first had the characters put on them. Of course, the "make a writer write this character" deal doesn't apply if they hate the character so much that they'd turn their writing into a hate screed - though at that point you'd have to wonder how professional they really are.


    Honestly, I think Lorna could coexist with Magneto without being slotted as "beneath" him, if she were to do that instead of pick up his mantle. It would just take understanding where they differ and using that. Lorna isn't Magneto. She didn't have to live in a concentration camp surrounded by death and endless suffering. Magneto isn't Lorna. He didn't have to live with the death wails of millions playing over and over in his head to the point of massive trauma, nor did he grow up thinking he was human but feeling he had to hide part of who he was. They've had different lived experiences, which in turn should shape different attitudes, and uses of their powers.
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