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  1. #1216
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    X-Corps will be announced it should be next week, but until we know 101 about what it is about its hard for me to argue Lorna should or shouldn't be there.
    Last edited by jmc247; 11-16-2019 at 09:55 AM.

  2. #1217
    My Mutant Muses TRIFECTA! Heroine Addict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    Is it possible that paradise is too good to be true? Sure.

    But, if you want a character to come out against the very popular set up more then a feeling is needed on the part of that character.
    The "set-up" has already been built for failure, as it stands, for its foundation rests on a lie. It's only a matter of time.
    Last edited by Heroine Addict; 11-16-2019 at 09:55 AM.
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  3. #1218
    Astonishing Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Not according to Hickman's interviews. But we'll see.

  4. #1219
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    There are two ways this is played either the Invasion of the Body Snatchers (IotBS) route or the Garden of Eden route.

    I have already commented on the IotBS route, but if its the Garden of Eden route then people will find themselves unworthy of the paradise because of their own natures and not the other way around. There is no actual evidence at this point for which way it will go. That is my last comment on the matter.
    Last edited by jmc247; 11-16-2019 at 10:04 AM.

  5. #1220
    Astonishing Member AbnormallyNormal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    X-Corps will be announced it should be next week, but until we know 101 about what it is about its hard for me to argue Lorna should or shouldn't be there.
    My question is what would distinguish X-Corp from Hellfire Trading Company? We already know that Hellfire Trading Company has a legit above ground side as well as a seedier black market operation. So where would X-Corp fit in?

    Unless it's like "spreading the good word about mutants" in a business type setting somehow? Similar to what the Marauders team does except I guess more "white collar"?

    Idk how I even feel about that premise honestly sounds a bit boring.

    But it would work for characters like Cuckoos... our gal idk, I think she prefers crushing stuff like her enemies' heads
    "So many killers... so much screaming... so many dying. I didn't know where to turn, who to help - which sentinel to stop first. And with the accusations of human judgement screaming in my ears... all I could think was that he was right. MAGNETO HAD BEEN RIGHT ALL ALONG!"

  6. #1221
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    Not according to Hickman's interviews. ...
    As I would imagine. A good gambler never shows all their cards.

    Moira hasn't been entirely forthcoming with Xavier, and has kept things from him. She, along with Charles & Erik, are keeping things from everybody else (eXcept... Forge, maybe?). Along with not wanting Destiny resurrected under any circumstances, she has forbidden any other precogs from having access to the island.

    Kitty's not allowed to use the portals like everybody else so far has... why?

    Lorna hasn't been the only one to voice some hesitancy, as Logan himself has expressed rather strong doubt, about certain developments. And recently, the overall Krakoan atmosphere of "no worries", as well. Which we were shown, was well justified.

    And then there's Apocalypse, who by far has the most extensive history with the islands, and whatever... true purposes, they might have.

    All more than enough to give one pause, and suspect whatever the Krakoan age is now, is not what it will be. And maybe even... never really was.

  7. #1222
    Astonishing Member AbnormallyNormal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heroine Addict View Post
    As I would imagine. A good gambler never shows all their cards.

    Moira hasn't been entirely forthcoming with Xavier, and has kept things from him. She, along with Charles & Erik, are keeping things from everybody else (eXcept... Forge, maybe?). Along with not wanting Destiny resurrected under any circumstances, she has forbidden any other precogs from having access to the island.

    Kitty's not allowed to use the portals like everybody else so far has... why?

    Lorna hasn't been the only one to voice some hesitancy, as Logan himself has expressed rather strong doubt, about certain developments. And recently, the overall Krakoan atmosphere of "no worries", as well. Which we were shown, was well justified.

    And then there's Apocalypse, who by far has the most extensive history with the islands, and whatever... true purposes, they might have.

    All more than enough to give one pause, and suspect whatever the Krakoan age is now, is not what it will be. And maybe even... never really was.
    Good question re: Kate Pryde for sure. I am looking forward to the explanation there, but my hope is it coincides with her coming of age tale as she becomes a more pragmatic mutant leader not as fettered by her old absorption of XavierThought.

    Your points on Moira and secrecy are spot on too of course, but everyone in this thread knows this already. Likewise with Moira/Xavier/Mags being secretive to the other mutants on Krakoa. We know! But we assume it could be for reasons unrelated to "it's all a giant sham and evilllll and the mutants are bein controlled". It could be that but tbh it's more interesting and substantive a narrative if we take it at face value instead.

    And yes good to observe the No Precog rule but to me, that is just a tie-in or "narrative echo" because Destiny was so incredibly crucial to all of this even occurring. And it sets up an eventual reunion between Mystique and her at some point, but after much future strife yet to transpire.

    We don't even KNOW Lorna has voiced hesitancy. That's one way to interpret what she asked Scott but NOT the only. This artist is incapable of drawing facial expressions, and Hickman's dialogues are incredibly sparse, so it's literally impossible to determine as of yet her stance. My preference is she's all-in for Krakoa, and it seems like she is given the other things we got from her during this status quo. I see where you're coming from trying to link this to the Prisoner X story though.

    Wolverine was just mad that supervillains showed up but he's been chill ever since.

    And yes Apocalypse is crucial to a lot it would appear, but again for me the fun and intriguing part of this Krakoan status quo is the chance to re-examine characters like him in a more multifaceted and less "He = Bad" way. So him being revealed to have dastardly plotted it all would disappoint me greatly
    "So many killers... so much screaming... so many dying. I didn't know where to turn, who to help - which sentinel to stop first. And with the accusations of human judgement screaming in my ears... all I could think was that he was right. MAGNETO HAD BEEN RIGHT ALL ALONG!"

  8. #1223
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbnormallyNormal View Post
    My question is what would distinguish X-Corp from Hellfire Trading Company? We already know that Hellfire Trading Company has a legit above ground side as well as a seedier black market operation. So where would X-Corp fit in?
    Hellfire Trading Company already has legitimate and black-market arms to its business enterprise so yes another company would be redundant, but that gets to my point we don't know what the title is as yet and assuming its just a company is a mistake. Emma is obviously building a female power base of her own to compete for control of mutants, we will see how things turns out there.

    I would like to see Lorna build her own powerbase with former Acolytes and I know you would like that as well, but if that can't happen branching out with what the Frosts are doing is a possibility. If there starts to be a HoM faction it could solve a lot of issues for Lorna as Magneto at the moment has no faction and is subject to the Krakoa council while Emma is clearly building a faction behind herself.

    I know there was a lot of interest in North over the Summer. He even made two covers of the crossover something that couldn't be said for Lorna.


    Quote Originally Posted by Heroine Addict View Post
    Good question. They have stated that in Hickman's X-era, Lorna has grown even closer to Magneto, while distancing herself from Havok. So I see that as her being his right-hand, and him being a mentor to her, in many ways. I'd like their relationship to deepen considerably, not just on a practical level, but a much more personal one. I relish the idea of them becoming each other's trusted confidante, on all matters.
    I will say their relationship feels quite different then before in a very good way. They are talking about philosophy, plans and working together in a way they weren't before. Their interaction to date is resolving most of the criticisms I had about how they interacted in Blue.

    Last edited by jmc247; 11-16-2019 at 12:02 PM.

  9. #1224
    Astonishing Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heroine Addict View Post
    As I would imagine. A good gambler never shows all their cards.
    If you say so. I disagree.

  10. #1225
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbnormallyNormal View Post
    … we assume it could be for reasons unrelated to "it's all a giant sham and evilllll and the mutants are bein controlled"...

    … the No Precog rule...

    … We don't even KNOW Lorna has voiced hesitancy. That's one way to interpret what she asked Scott but NOT the only. ...

    … Wolverine was just mad that supervillains showed up but he's been chill ever since.

    And yes Apocalypse is crucial to a lot it would appear, but... less "He = Bad" way. So him being revealed to have dastardly plotted it all would disappoint me greatly
    You're exaggerating my thoughts, once again, as well as generalizing & oversimplifying them. All in an effort to paint them as black & white, which is hardly the case, when it comes to their intended meaning.

    Precogs would see the truth, and the secrets being held by many. Therefore, they would be privy to the manipulation at hand.

    Lorna questioned the practice & validity of the resurrections, even before she asked Scott about how unwavering his faith was.

    Wolverine was shown to be concerned & on guard, in X-Force.

    You're boiling things down to apply your own perceptions. It's difficult to respond, when you're so dramatically reading into what I've written.
    Last edited by Heroine Addict; 11-16-2019 at 11:18 AM.

  11. #1226
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbnormallyNormal View Post
    But yeah, the whole history of Krakoa itself hasn't been adequately dealt with either IMO. I mean I assume for general readers they know Krakoa as the villain from Giant-Size in 1975 and that's basically it. So how did Krakoa get back to Earth from being tossed out to space (incidentally via a powerful team effort crucially involving our gal!), and why is it so helpful to mutantkind now? These things aren't really explained. ...
    I'm glad you brought this up!

    As upon reflection, I think aspects of how the living island's original nature was shown back then:



    might be somethin' to keep in mind now, as it could prove to be important, or even... integral.

    (If you're in a hurry, go right to say... about the 34 min. mark, should be good, to see what I'm referring to... eXactly.)

  12. #1227
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    If HoX/PoX was a critical and sales flop we would probably find out in the next year and a half the secrets of Krakoa or if Hickman's plan is for them to in time come apart from within. But, as that sales have shown and bleeding cool has said its vastly exceeded all expectations and produced a great deal of excitement and interest amongst all the various tribes of x-fans as one commentator put it. That means whatever is planned will be drawn out.

    My view on the three likely steps are right now it unity. Step two is factionalism and step three is hard to say I won't predict. I think we are all looking for something for Lorna to actually do, but I think at this point the best option will come when factionalism starts.

    My last comment on the matter is generally no matter what happens it makes sense for Lorna to build a power base come what may. I think Hickman is going to want Game of Thrones like conflict breaking out after 12 of his various series and the big question happens to be is Lorna a major player in that or not.

    As for matters beyond the comics I expect with both next year the 15th anniversary of HoM and Marvel wanting to promote the Wanda TV show out Spring 2021 there is going to be a big HoM push next year including in games and all sort of merchandise. We are seeing the first signs of it in the comics. For Lorna the real question comes in if she benefits or not from it and if you would have asked me 6 months ago my answer would be no, but Lorna in House of X and X-Men #1 makes her harder to ignore as related to Magneto then it was even this Summer when they excluded her from the 'family matters' Magneto family action figure pack.

    Even in a lot of the House of M art a month or two ago in the comics and animated sorts she was being excluded, but for a first time in many years she was not this past week. I would like to see Lorna in Marvel games and a lot of other things again, if its going to happen it will because of a lot of HoM promotion in the run up to the TV series/Strange movie and fans not letting them get away with depicting Magneto as having only two children as they have been doing in games and merch. Polaris fans have been too factionalized and disunited on things that should bring us together... like the character getting in games for instance.

    Quote Originally Posted by juan678 View Post
    I think the early 90s nostalgia at the moment we are seeing on the x-side with merch is most heavily related to TAS coming out on Disney+. I think it will go away in a few months and if it returns depends on what they decide for the next X-Men animated series which I think after the Kevin F. take over will probably both receive a lot more money and a lot more planning to it compared to the Loeb era where they were tossing out low budget stuff quickly.

    I envision the next animated show being higher quality then any we have had in a decade and more synergized to the MCU overall concept planning for the X-Men's introduction into things. In terms of Lorna and the comics what happens now matters for if she manages to get a slot in the next animated series or future films. Lorna being in House of M was pretty much the only thing that got her into Wolverine and the X-Men after all.

    In terms of Lorna in the MCU I am not putting high odds there. I think the number of mutants they are going to use is low. Probably Brotherhood vs X-Men with Jean and Storm as the first two x-women and Rogue the third. Lorna has shot though it’s pretty obvious it isn’t on the side overstuffed with Claremozians.
    Last edited by jmc247; 11-18-2019 at 07:34 AM.

  13. #1228
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    It is looking like the January issue of X-Men will be delayed three weeks and if X-Corps happens it won't be out until at least March.

    Anyway. I think its time to send a message to Marvel Future Fight that its time to include Lorna in an update.

    https://twitter.com/Marvel_FFightUS/...76845475442688

    The Disney+ effect is occurring. TAS may be the crown jewel of the animated x-franchise, but the Lorna with real depth and pathos beyond who she is sleeping with was in WATXM.

    Last edited by jmc247; 11-18-2019 at 07:41 AM.

  14. #1229
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    It is looking like the January issue of X-Men will be delayed three weeks and if X-Corps happens it won't be out until at least March.

    Anyway. I think its time to send a message to Marvel Future Fight that its time to include Lorna in an update.
    Im not a fan of how Magneto plays so this would be a chance to do something different with that power set. Plus if Rachel can get in, I think they shouldnt have any issues putting in Lorna

  15. #1230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Im not a fan of how Magneto plays so this would be a chance to do something different with that power set. Plus if Rachel can get in, I think they shouldnt have any issues putting in Lorna
    I remember years ago debating a game maker about her inclusion. The argument she is of no use because of power redundancy was kind of hollow given the number of characters like Logan/Laura among others were basically the same power set with tweaks to how they use their powers. They eventually gave the impression perhaps she will be included in one of the updates to Havok which never happened which belied the real thinking behind her non-inclusion was rooted in 80s/90s thinking of the character that she is a relatively unimportant C list extension to B list Havok's character.

    The hope for Lorna and these games is both fans become more vocal and that there is going to be a lot of House of M promotion in the lead up to the Wanda TV series and we are already seeing the early stages of that. I can imagine next year the game makers given directions to do House of M events and the only question for Lorna will she be included in that push or not.

    There have been five comics about the history of the Marvel universe so far going from the early days all the way now through to events late last decade. Lorna was not included at all until one got to the House of M history, because Claremont kept her from any real role in his events and she was wallpaper in the 90s events.

    Its true she didn't have a lot to do in HoM (at least the main title she did in the minis) or HoX, but she started to have a voice in the modern era events and while not a main character in any of them she has been upgraded into at least a second tier character in terms of importance. The generation that sees her through the lens of a third tier x-character is the one who by in large makes most of these games.

    You had a younger female employee on a game a few years back who for free was designing Lorna for one of the online Marvel games as her bosses didn't believe she was worth it as an unimportant C lister. She was let go before it was finished.

    Things hopefully will change with time.
    Last edited by jmc247; 11-18-2019 at 09:38 AM.

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