Polaris: Lorna Dane Appreciation 2019

[Killerbee911]

True but my point remains. All we have for X-men #1 is a cover and Lorna isnt promoted on it just as she wasnt promoted on the Uncanny X-men #1 cover yet was there

You are right everybody in the Dawn of X SDCC pic is showing up somewhere that is guarantee . With X-men being a rotating roster it is safe bet to guess that Northstar, M, Husk, Lifeguard, Maggot,Frenzy, Multiple Man,Strong guy, Archangel, Nightcrawler and Lorna will likely show up in there. Hickman Avenger roster that was around 23 to 27 people if I remember correctly. Hickman has said couple times X-men it does have traditional set roster and the roster will rotate ,I don't know why people are so comfortable with thinking that flagship is going to be a pure Summers/Grey wankfest. I will be shocked if it isn't 3(maybe 6) issue story arc and they move on another group characters. Or at worse Hickman is going with more of Game of Thrones/Walking Dead approach where the setting is the most important thing and characters time around is determined by how much time they are spending in that area. Which is not a bad approach honestly for a big cast.

Lorna is going to show up.

[powerpax]

I can't speak for the godawful TV show but I don't recall any indicator that comics Lorna is LGBT.

[salarta]

True but my point remains. All we have for X-men #1 is a cover and Lorna isnt promoted on it just as she wasnt promoted on the Uncanny X-men #1 cover yet was there

Yes, your point of what's on a comic book cover is true. But it's also true that she was visually present in a teaser for Disassembled, while she's not in this case. Both points are true for their respective scopes.

That is frankly ridiculous. Yes Storm and Polaris both share in having control over electromagnetism but it is not encroaching if Storm asks if Lorna can sense her own father. I am a Storm fan I love everything she can do from terrestrial to cosmic but Storm is a jack of all trades mutant yeah she could probably sense Magneto herself but why bother if you have a direct line right next to you? The X-Men are a team each person has a specialty it's not a one man or one woman show.

Anyway I am all for Lorna forging new relationships I would love for my Trinity concept to come true one day.

I must confess though when did Lorna come out as bi/lesbian? Or is this just fanon? I haven't been keeping up with everything X-Men and my current knowledge is sporadic at best.

I think, generally, Marvel culture encourages fandom infighting. They seem to think it's good for business and keeps people too busy to expect better from them.

Insofar as Storm and the Uncanny situation, I feel it's the same as my suggestion of Lorna's powers being used in low-level psychic ways. Can she read minds and transmit thoughts? Yeah, if Marvel is willing to acknowledge it. Should that mean she's equal to a full-fledged psychic? Absolutely not. She'd have limits they don't (e.g. over long distance, limited to where there are nearby power lines). If Lorna and a psychic were working with each other, it'd be wrong to go by Lorna's lower-level abilities vs what the psychic can do.

As for the bi/lesbian part, that's fanon. Nothing in the comics suggests it. Though honestly, I respect fanon more than Marvel at this point, since fanon is built off loving and respecting the characters and wanting to see great things happen with them. The main reason she's not bi/lesbian in the comics isn't cause that's what Marvel thinks is the best course for her. It's cause they don't respect her enough to take a real look at her and dig into who she is, which would include sexual orientation. They just want to reinforce terrible status quos and ignore important character development. Fans are willing (and eager) to do what Marvel won't, so I give fan work more credence.

You are right everybody in the Dawn of X SDCC pic is showing up somewhere that is guarantee.

I have three doubts, in order:

1) That Lorna will show up anywhere.
2) That if she does, it'll be anything more significant than standing in the background.
3) That if it IS something more than background fodder, it's not going to be about promoting Havok at her expense.

The "safe" bet is that if her image was at SDCC, then she'll show up somewhere eventually.

My bet after Marvel's antics for the past few years is that the SDCC image is to placate fans by making them think they have plans for her. So far, I haven't heard anyone from Marvel say "Every character on this slide is definitely appearing in something, they're not just on this slide to get the idea across that this book's scope will be huge."

And, I distinctly remember a Comic-Con banner made when the Starjammers were still in space limbo, which had Lorna (and Havok, and I believe Rachel) on it, leading people to believe those three characters would be returning to the comics soon. Only for Marvel to later turn around and say the banner was just whatever random characters the artist wanted to draw.

[powerpax]

Lorna has always and will always make appearances somewhere. The problem is - and I say this as someone who's always found Lorna cool and underused - the most interesting she's been for many folks, me included, is when she was possessed, crazy or otherwise altered in some way. Specifically the Malice/Muir Isle era is when I was really into her as a kid. The glimpse of her as a kind of damaged priestess on Genosha under Morrison also worked for me. Lorna 'stable' has never been compelling to me because in that outline she defaults to Green-Haired C-List Jean with Scott's brother. She's more interesting when she's dangerous and off-center. Lean into the visual look and weird backstory and extrapolate from that. (And please, not that awful TV show almost no one watched)

Fandoms mean nothing to me.

[Zero Hunter]

I really think Lorna is going to get a big push when Marvel start doing X-Men movies. With Wanda and Pietro off the board as children of Magneto in the MCU movies I really think they will push Lorna. Magneto dealing with his kids is too good a plot point not to use at some point, and since Lorna is the only one they can use now I think they will.

[Havok83]

I really think Lorna is going to get a big push when Marvel start doing X-Men movies. With Wanda and Pietro off the board as children of Magneto in the MCU movies I really think they will push Lorna. Magneto dealing with his kids is too good a plot point not to use at some point, and since Lorna is the only one they can use now I think they will.

They can still use Wanda and Pietro. Pietro is dead but there are ways to bring him back, especially since Wanda will be dabbling in magic with he new series (which will bring Vision back). They were orphans and we dont know their parentage. We didnt know it in the books until it was revealed years later and that could happen here too

[powerpax]

I really think Lorna is going to get a big push when Marvel start doing X-Men movies. With Wanda and Pietro off the board as children of Magneto in the MCU movies

Bold of you to assume that will stick for long. I doubt it will in the books either, and it shouldn't. AFAIC they are Magnus' children.

[salarta]

Lorna has always and will always make appearances somewhere. The problem is - and I say this as someone who's always found Lorna cool and underused - the most interesting she's been for many folks, me included, is when she was possessed, crazy or otherwise altered in some way. Specifically the Malice/Muir Isle era is when I was really into her as a kid. The glimpse of her as a kind of damaged priestess on Genosha under Morrison also worked for me. Lorna 'stable' has never been compelling to me because in that outline she defaults to Green-Haired C-List Jean with Scott's brother. She's more interesting when she's dangerous and off-center. Lean into the visual look and weird backstory and extrapolate from that. (And please, not that awful TV show almost no one watched)

Fandoms mean nothing to me.

The problem with "stable" Lorna is that Marvel's definition of "stable" Lorna follows Claremont's opinion of her, and his opinion of her was "clingy girlfriend of Havok who gets used and beat up all the time and can't fend for herself." Which isn't who Lorna really is. It's just the template laid on her by someone who didn't like or respect her.

What people are attaching to as fans of Lorna is who they know Lorna is and should be with that template abolished. Within "possessed/crazy," there are elements of real Lorna lurking that fans have picked up on.

Gifted version Lorna was good in the first season. Missing some important bits of her, but that's common for AUs. I hear season 2 was horrible to her though.

I really think Lorna is going to get a big push when Marvel start doing X-Men movies. With Wanda and Pietro off the board as children of Magneto in the MCU movies I really think they will push Lorna. Magneto dealing with his kids is too good a plot point not to use at some point, and since Lorna is the only one they can use now I think they will.

I'm expecting that retcon on the twins to be undone in a few years. Then the question becomes if Marvel allows Lorna to remain one of Magneto's daughters (and more importantly, lets the siblings spend time together), or goes back to what Brevoort was doing of pretending there can be only one daughter and Lorna "doesn't deserve" to be it.

To be clear, the twins can and should be Magneto's kids too. What I'm saying is that both Lorna and Wanda should be his daughter. And more importantly, that they should get to interact as sisters.

[powerpax]

The problem with "stable" Lorna is that Marvel's definition of "stable" Lorna follows Claremont's opinion of her, and his opinion of her was "clingy girlfriend of Havok who gets used and beat up all the time and can't fend for herself."

I don't think that was Claremont's opinion of her, no. I remember that run well. I do think Claremont was the only writer except perhaps PAD that has struggled to find a definition for her character beyond Havok's Girlfriend/Green Jean (and even then, IIRC she was basically Green Jean the team mom for much of PAD's run). The thing was all CC came up with to differentiate her was having her possessed or turn butch/super-strong with big hair.

I don't think any writer has known who Lorna is, because beyond her traumas and crises Lorna's character has always been very thinly defined IMO. So my take is, lean into the wilder elements and build on them.

[jmc247]

They have a TV show and what sounds like a multi universe movie they could easily use to fix Wanda's parentage in the MCU and its probably going to happen. Certainly Wanda and Pietro have had a much bigger high level push in games and merchandise as Magneto's kids even when they are not in the comics or films then Lorna has ever had period.

That said Lorna has a place I could see her fitting into the MCU in her more politically extreme format. That would allow her to have something akin to a MCU Nebula like role with the X-Men and be allies in time. In her Jean lite format she has no future in the MCU or the comics.

Lorna has always and will always make appearances somewhere. The problem is - and I say this as someone who's always found Lorna cool and underused - the most interesting she's been for many folks, me included, is when she was possessed, crazy or otherwise altered in some way. Specifically the Malice/Muir Isle era is when I was really into her as a kid. The glimpse of her as a kind of damaged priestess on Genosha under Morrison also worked for me. Lorna 'stable' has never been compelling to me because in that outline she defaults to Green-Haired C-List Jean with Scott's brother. She's more interesting when she's dangerous and off-center. Lean into the visual look and weird backstory and extrapolate from that. (And please, not that awful TV show almost no one watched)

Fandoms mean nothing to me.

Stable/Xavierite Lorna has one modality and that happens to be green haired Jean that puts readers to sleep that is true. It doesn't further her relationships nor further the character.

Going the route of her being simply 'the crazy' as Milligan did and to a lesser extent second run PAD did on its own is a mistake if that is it. It gets old fast and doesn't even further her developing lasting relationships. Giving her a philosophical edge furthers the characters story and allows her to lean away from simply lashing out because she is 'unhinged' or because she is 'possessed'.

[powerpax]

Stable/Xavierite Lorna has one modality and that happens to be green haired Jean that puts readers to sleep... even myself. It doesn't further her relationships nor further the character.

Going the route of her being 'the crazy' as Milligan did and to a lesser extent second run PAD did on its own is a mistake if that is it. It gets old fast. Giving her a philosophical edge furthers the characters story and allows her to lean away from simply lashing out because she is 'unhinged' or because she is 'possessed'.

Well, there's volatile and then there's Chuck Austen Wedding Crasher Lorna, probably her worst moment of all time and part of an overall run I still cannot believe I read with my own human eyes. It's just a question of nuance and degrees. You can make Lorna a dangerous character without making her a harridan or a complete headcase. I agree making her a radical is best. We agree on Lorna as Green Jean, which is what a lot of people seem to want for her but which is what keeps her being ignored forever.

[Soulsword323]

I've always loved Lorna's volatile nature and violent tendencies. Its something that I think makes the character unique, but ultimately end up getting ignored by most writers. Not everyone has ignored it, but a lot of writers don't seem to utilize those qualities as much as I think they should. There's a balance there that most struggle with unfortunately.

[jmc247]

Well, there's volatile and then there's Chuck Austen Wedding Crasher Lorna, probably her worst moment of all time and part of an overall run I still cannot believe I read with my own human eyes. It's just a question of nuance and degrees. You can make Lorna a dangerous character without making her a harridan or a complete headcase. I agree making her a radical is best. We agree on Lorna as Green Jean, which is what a lot of people seem to want for her but which is what keeps her being ignored forever.

2003 Austen's Lorna was actually a last minute change in scripting.

His original plan was write her in Jean lite format and marry her to Havok and drop her in limbo. He in fact scripted a lot of it out and felt he had to go back to the drawing board when Morrison's New X-Men 132 came out where she is quite mad with the voices of millions of people and Magneto going through her head and her calling him her father. Before the wedding she was supposed to be barely holding herself together and then the **** hits the fan once the wedding goes to hell. I find two clear views on wedding Lorna either people take it highly seriously in which case they tend to hate it or they don't.

Austen intended the wedding to be a way over the top breaking points issue to start the road to stability and recovery from the genocide and the breakup and it led to some of what I felt were her best issues in late 2003-2004. Balance is hard for writers to get as well as nuance, though wedding Lorna wasn't supposed to be balanced or nuanced in any conceivable way.

I agree in terms of the political radical direction as it is easier for writers to get a handle on and do something consistent with then 'the crazy' and it helps the character have a solid base in the franchise in a way that Jean lite or mentally ill simply does not. It would help her start to develop actual relationships with the other X-Men as well if they ever go down that route again something she doesn't actually have. Even with Jean her supposed best friend their relationship is defunct and paper thin.

Heck, even her relationship with Magneto is pretty thin. The only highly developed relationship she has is one man.

[powerpax]

I think Austen wrote some of the worst X-books of all time and his Nurse Annie/Alex/Lorna is some of the absolute worst and most laughable of all of it. I wouldn't trust him with a single character again, whatever his alleged intentions but YMMV (and he clearly was devoted to his pet characters, namely Annie and her kid, and pairing her with Alex, so any claim of keeping Lorna with Alex is nonsense). I remember his writing of 'tough Lorna' and I didn't buy it either - it was too campy.

[jmc247]

Like I said different strokes for different folks. I very much personally disagree for instance with his hard core anti-Catholic views which showed up in a laughable portaryal of the church as a bunch of crazed anti-mutant religious zelots, but I also didn't take it too seriously either. I can laugh at the concept of exploding Communion Wafers, if I couldn't I would probably feel the same way about his run that you do.

Also, I am missing alot in terms of who talked about him writing for her again?

I am against any writer having a second crack or third crack at her with an ongoing who wrote her many years ago and that includes PAD. I felt PAD certainly tried to reconcile her 1991 depiction with her 2000s depictions and some things worked, but a number of things didn't. Bunn's Lorna was probably overall more disappointing as it lacked any edge or depth, but it much like all other runs with her it is history. The writer of Prisoner of X probably managed to thread the needle the best of this decades writers.