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  1. #706

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    What I heard was that Bunn didn't want to write the teen O5 in the first place, but since he was already writing them, he intended for the teen O5 to be used for that storyline. Then they got pulled for a story outside Blue and he had to use Lorna instead.

    There are various things in his run that I wondered if it was Bunn's decision, or if editors above him forced those things on him. Yet with the absence of anything that showed it was out of his control, I had to assume those things were choices he made.
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  2. #707
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    Honestly, I tapped out of Bunncany even before Blue launched. I think it was after Apocalypse Wars. I was weary about him being put on Uncanny after his underwhelming Venom, Fearless Defenders, various Deadpools...

  3. #708

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    I went straight from Magneto solo to Blue, with the exception of Mercs For Money. There were issues with usage of Lorna at the end of the Magneto solo too, but I gave it a pass because 1) I wanted to give time for adjustments, and 2) Bunn was letting Lorna interact with Magneto as his daughter - something that was much needed at the time.

    These days, the issue is less "Lorna needs to interact with her father" and more "Lorna needs to be treated well while interacting with her father." I've complained plenty about how Lorna's been treated around Havok for most of her history. I don't want a repeat of that problem with Magneto. Their relationship is relatively fresh. It doesn't have baggage from decades of toxicity, or nostalgia for that toxicity undermining its potential. The only risk factors are things for their respective past uses (Lorna's treatment around men, other characters' treatment around Magneto) bleeding into their dynamic.
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  4. #709
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    Emma chimes in. She liked Lorna in HoX #5.
    Last edited by jmc247; 09-21-2019 at 12:06 PM.

  5. #710

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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    I went straight from Magneto solo to Blue, with the exception of Mercs For Money. There were issues with usage of Lorna at the end of the Magneto solo too, but I gave it a pass because 1) I wanted to give time for adjustments, and 2) Bunn was letting Lorna interact with Magneto as his daughter - something that was much needed at the time.

    These days, the issue is less "Lorna needs to interact with her father" and more "Lorna needs to be treated well while interacting with her father." I've complained plenty about how Lorna's been treated around Havok for most of her history. I don't want a repeat of that problem with Magneto. Their relationship is relatively fresh. It doesn't have baggage from decades of toxicity, or nostalgia for that toxicity undermining its potential. The only risk factors are things for their respective past uses (Lorna's treatment around men, other characters' treatment around Magneto) bleeding into their dynamic.
    I actually want Magneto to have "The Talk" with Havok. Telling Havok that Magneto thinks he is bad for his daughter and wants Havok to leave her alone, (or else...).

    I would love to see Lorna fly solo for a bit, I am ok with her being partnered with her Dad on a regular basis, I liked that they were shown talking with each other like family in HoX 5. I liked that Magneto took his helmet off when he was talking to Lorna, because she is his daughter and he trusts her more than anyone else, probably more than he trusts Charles.

  6. #711
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    On a separate matter I regret my criticism over the Summer about the use of Lorna on a variant cover to promote Havok's origins story. It was a good cover and I said it at the time, but in a lot of ways it paid the price for my anger at Lorna being left off the family matters Magnus family action figure set while she was later included in a separate Havolaris set. I don't regret my criticism of Lorna being left out of the family action figure set.

    Lorna needs to be in more high profile covers as Exodus is beating her out so far this fall.

    I would love to see Lorna fly solo for a bit, I am ok with her being partnered with her Dad on a regular basis, I liked that they were shown talking with each other like family in HoX 5. I liked that Magneto took his helmet off when he was talking to Lorna, because she is his daughter and he trusts her more than anyone else, probably more than he trusts Charles.
    That is actually possible right now if they have as hinted at moved Lorna philosophically in a place where she can both be doing her own thing and appearing on X-Men. We already know Magneto will be appearing on not just X-Men, but at least one other title.

    For those who think Lorna's parentage and relationship with Magneto is a done matter and its time to go on to step B. I would say its far less established then one might think with a subset of 80s and 90s fanboys who still have a great deal of power and have ignored it for years outside the x-books from current games to the Heroes titles. If it were really established in fans minds half as much as some might think there is no way she would have been left out of the family matters set.

    That said Lorna can both interact with Magneto and do other things at the same time and should be doing so over the next year. Its not one situation or the other now that the whole line is her oyster and she isn't stuck on one title which in the end was centered on teen Jean. The positive about the position Lorna is in now is that she is a segway character to the more hard ball side of mutants on the island while having another foot in the more mainline X-Men side.
    Last edited by jmc247; 09-19-2019 at 08:36 AM.

  7. #712

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    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    I actually want Magneto to have "The Talk" with Havok. Telling Havok that Magneto thinks he is bad for his daughter and wants Havok to leave her alone, (or else...).

    I would love to see Lorna fly solo for a bit, I am ok with her being partnered with her Dad on a regular basis, I liked that they were shown talking with each other like family in HoX 5. I liked that Magneto took his helmet off when he was talking to Lorna, because she is his daughter and he trusts her more than anyone else, probably more than he trusts Charles.
    "The Talk" is something with possibilities, but which I don't think should be pursued for a very, very long time.

    Marvel has a problem. They don't seem to understand Lorna should be treated as a character in her own right, instead of as a trophy for two men to fight over and try to win. It's how we ended up with this as a cover for X-Men Blue.



    Marvel needs to understand and treat Lorna much, much better before pursuing something like "The Talk" - or anything involving her history with Havok, really. Otherwise the potential of "The Talk" will be forever marred by Marvel handling it poorly.

    Right now, Lorna and Magneto doing things together is a good thing. They're exploring new ground. The kinks are being worked out as they're written, writers figure out what works and what doesn't, and fans give praise or criticism over certain directions. That changes if Marvel takes things in a bad direction; and I strongly believe "The Talk" if done today (vs a long time from now, when things are better established) would lead to a bad direction.

    And yes, usage of covers does matter. It's what people see, and people form impressions from them. It's why there was such a massive uproar over the Batgirl cover involving Joker and Killing Joke a few years ago. Marvel knows this. Poor depiction of relationship dynamics on a cover (even if the quality of the art itself is good) has a negative impact, as does Marvel taking a good cover and using it as a bait-and-switch to mask how the content inside is all about promoting Havok at Lorna's expense.
    Last edited by salarta; 09-19-2019 at 08:37 AM.
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  8. #713

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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    "The Talk" is something with possibilities, but which I don't think should be pursued for a very, very long time.

    Marvel has a problem. They don't seem to understand Lorna should be treated as a character in her own right, instead of as a trophy for two men to fight over and try to win. It's how we ended up with this as a cover for X-Men Blue.



    Marvel needs to understand and treat Lorna much, much better before pursuing something like "The Talk" - or anything involving her history with Havok, really. Otherwise the potential of "The Talk" will be forever marred by Marvel handling it poorly.

    Right now, Lorna and Magneto doing things together is a good thing. They're exploring new ground. The kinks are being worked out as they're written, writers figure out what works and what doesn't, and fans give praise or criticism over certain directions. That changes if Marvel takes things in a bad direction; and I strongly believe "The Talk" if done today (vs a long time from now, when things are better established) would lead to a bad direction.

    And yes, usage of covers does matter. It's what people see, and people form impressions from them. It's why there was such a massive uproar over the Batgirl cover involving Joker and Killing Joke a few years ago. Marvel knows this. Poor depiction of relationship dynamics on a cover (even if the quality of the art itself is good) has a negative impact, as does Marvel taking a good cover and using it as a bait-and-switch to mask how the content inside is all about promoting Havok at Lorna's expense.
    I do agree with, a lot of covers are unfortunate. That's my biggest complaint about Jean going back to the mini-skirt, it makes her look like a little girl in comparison to all the strong people around her wearing actual uniforms. Jean grew out of that outfit. I would be much happier if they went to the streamlined New X-Men uniform for Jean where she looked like someone you need to take seriously.

    Lorna needs time to shine without Alex, a long time even. I like the ongoing relationship with her father Erik, I like that they are continuing that and he is being shown to genuinely care a lot about Lorna. But at the same time you are right, she needs to be shown to stand as his equal. A great cover would be Lorna and Magneto back to back fighting something from all sides, trusting each other to have their backs in the fight.

    A better way to do that cover would be Magneto and Lorna facing against Alex and Bastion at the same time, showing them fighting together to defeat their enemy.

  9. #714
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    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    A better way to do that cover would be Magneto and Lorna facing against Alex and Bastion at the same time, showing them fighting together to defeat their enemy.
    I would certainly agree Lorna and Magneto need a cover where they are on equal terms and not one where they are coming to blows we have many of those in the past. Lorna has been conspicuously absent from covers period in the Krakoa era. I mean short of being on the cover intended to depict every mutant ever even many characters I forgot existed she hasn't been in anything. The Jean covers can be really good like the ones of her through all the years or poor, but there is a wide variety to choose from and its keeping her profile high. Just getting high profile covers period matters for a characters profile. I also like to have Lorna variant covers to buy and I don't have any of those out of the many upcoming x-books to buy at this point.

    The bigger overarching question is what should Lorna actually be doing. Jean is now on X-Force along with many others defending mutants by unsavory means. Fallen Angels Magneto will be on with Psylocke and it looks like they will be taking an even more aggressive approach and it has a bit of a Bunn's Uncanny feel to it already.

    Where does that leave Lorna? The Marauders supposed are going to have a second Hellfire Club queen opposite to Emma Frost and while I believe its a great idea and it would be the road that season 2 of The Gifted failed to take up which was part of the reason that car ended in a ditch, I also suspect they will use Selene.

    But, one key area where I think Lorna could use regaining credibility- as a political character who fights for mutants and interacts with both the likes of Emma, Storm and Jean. Frankly so many slots are filled by Emma, Jean, Storm and so many other characters I haven't a clue what Lorna could do at this point that would take advantage of her position on the island and with mutants in general. Perhaps, Hickman and his team have an idea.
    Last edited by jmc247; 09-19-2019 at 10:22 AM.

  10. #715

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    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    I do agree with, a lot of covers are unfortunate. That's my biggest complaint about Jean going back to the mini-skirt, it makes her look like a little girl in comparison to all the strong people around her wearing actual uniforms. Jean grew out of that outfit. I would be much happier if they went to the streamlined New X-Men uniform for Jean where she looked like someone you need to take seriously.

    Lorna needs time to shine without Alex, a long time even. I like the ongoing relationship with her father Erik, I like that they are continuing that and he is being shown to genuinely care a lot about Lorna. But at the same time you are right, she needs to be shown to stand as his equal. A great cover would be Lorna and Magneto back to back fighting something from all sides, trusting each other to have their backs in the fight.

    A better way to do that cover would be Magneto and Lorna facing against Alex and Bastion at the same time, showing them fighting together to defeat their enemy.
    The underlying intent of that cover seemed to be of trying to imply there's a battle of which man between the two gets to control and define her. Although "Lorna and Magneto face Bastion and Havok" is better than the cover that exists, I think it still feeds into that intent - just picking the better side between the two. I feel the better option is to not feed that "Magneto vs Havok over Lorna" dynamic at all.

    A better cover in my opinion would've been something of Lorna interacting with Emma in some way. Within the constraints of the cover depicting story contents, anyway. I considered "Lorna breaking up Magneto and Havok's fight" but that too would frame Lorna as existing only to be the one between two men. It all goes back to how "The Talk" shouldn't happen any time soon. There's too much baggage and toxicity in how Lorna's been treated around Havok, and too much work for Lorna as her own character needing to be done that Marvel isn't doing.
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  11. #716
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    Lorna certainly could use a real female compatriot, perhaps a frenemy as well amongst the mainstays.
    Last edited by jmc247; 09-19-2019 at 07:51 PM.

  12. #717
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    Well she was close to Rhane for a time, or however you spell her name...

  13. #718
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    was she? Its been a while but I recall Rahne disliking her bc she was jealous of her relationship with Alex. Were they close in the Madrox series?

  14. #719
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    was she? Its been a while but I recall Rahne disliking her bc she was jealous of her relationship with Alex. Were they close in the Madrox series?
    They had all of one issue together in the Madrox series so no not much.

    She wasn’t particular closer to Rahne then she was to say Danger. Lorna has had a number of fleeting female relationships that were originally created as sort of love triangles which became friendly over time. Rahne was one of these, so was Nurse Annie and heck I would argue so was Danger BTW if one remembers the androids attraction to Gambit.

    Yes, Lorna has had female friends on paper, but all of them save Jean were pretty era specific and usually very underdeveloped and relationships that are not all that memorable outside very run specific nostalgia. With Jean one can at least say she had a high profile relationship that had some development in two eras and a smattering in the 70s to 90s.

    Though I will be straight up honest Lorna’s relationship with Jean won’t go anywhere unless they go a very different track then the soul sisters route. If Lorna does get a female friend I would like it to be a character many writers like to write so the relationship doesn’t die on the vine after the run, something that furthers her story and that characters story as well.

    Oh and on another matter it’s a victory for Lorna that she hasn’t had a nervous breakdown after Havok was killed fighting Sentinels. Her friends were just killed saving the mutant race from Sentinels. She sounds less moody then 2004 about the whole deal. Still angry at a certain group, but there is clearly hope there with the plan to fix it all.
    Last edited by jmc247; 09-19-2019 at 09:48 PM.

  15. #720
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    I love how Lorna is royalty because she is magneto child,

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