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  1. #61
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    Lorna rejoining the Underground was a given before the season even started. Polaris has largely operated on the side of good throughout her entire comic history, and we've known via the writers that these characters are meant to closer and closer to their comic counterparts. Knowing that, Lorna was always going to rejoin the more heroic affiliation. Which is not the Inner Circle. Polaris joined with the Inner Circle because they took a more aggressive stance when it came to helping Mutants, and weren't just smuggling them to safer places like the Underground. Though it looks like the Underground will start taking on a more aggressive stance in these next couple of episodes, so hopefully that sticks around.

    And, yes, we've seen Lorna accept what her father did, and that he did that to help Mutants, but that doesn't mean that Lorna should do things the exact same way he did. As I said in the review thread, its important to highlight the differences between Lorna and her father. Last season we got to see what they have in common, and this season we're starting to see how they deviate from one another. The problem more so has to do with the vagueness of Reeva's plan, and what exactly that entails. We don't know exactly what it is, and Lorna is just making assumptions. So I think this plot is a little premature, and think Lorna should have had a more concrete idea of what the Inner Circle was doing before branching out.

  2. #62
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    For those wondering, Polaris just floats around in the background, and shoots energy blasts in Uncanny. No lines or any thing of significance. Only one more issue, and I'm not expecting much. Bring on Age of X-Man.

  3. #63
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbnormallyNormal View Post
    Wow. I'm almost speechless but super happy you like the show.

    And I agree with what you said how the von Strucker family are the "core" but by no means do they take up all the attention.

    Polaris was pretty much the most interesting exciting character in season 1. In season 2 I think that focus has shifted a bit over more to the Cuckoos and to Andy/Lauren.

    The baby plot kind of got Lorna a bit less active or focused on early this season while she did take part in two missions since then, she just hasn't seemed even close to the powerhouse and like, dramatic conflict-based character she was in season 1.

    For me, the last few episodes of season 2 may be mostly about Andy and Lauren

    But yeah it was really good how they handled the issue of her dad/legacy and how she felt forced to give up her child, and creating a headpiece out of that medallion was really clever too
    why are u almost speechless boo?

    I must say, before the show I didnt like the cuckoos but the show made me definitely changed my perspective about the characters. their approach and mindset towards the world I get it now and I understand the morally grey tactics they use on the show. they are definitely one of the more interesting characters. I like the hellfire club leader too (I cant remember her name), she is badass.

    yea I did like how lorna took what her dad gave her and embraced that legacy. it would really be cool to see magneto make a cameo on the show. and I'm still trying to figure out what happened to the xmen? It kinda makes me think this is when the xmen faked their deaths and they were hiding out in the outback. I hope its explained at some point.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  4. #64
    My Mutant Muses TRIFECTA! Heroine Addict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heroine Addict View Post
    ... Will also edit some of my later 1st page posts, with highlights from her recent comiX history & such, that I'll pull from the previous thread.
    Started this, but decided to go with somethin' different & just post select scans of her most recent (last year, +, maybe) appearances, instead of liftin' the previous stuff. I'm workin' my way backwards, for whatever reason.
    My TOP XMen Faves
    PolarisDazzler
    I
    CEMAN♂♀Dani MoonstarArchangel
    MagnetoSunfire

    THE GiFTED💚💚NewMUTANTS💙Dk.Phoenix
    😍AoXM:PrisonerXtracts&Xtremists+UncannyWotR

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    For those wondering, Polaris just floats around in the background, and shoots energy blasts in Uncanny. No lines or any thing of significance. Only one more issue, and I'm not expecting much. Bring on Age of X-Man.
    Thanks. I've assumed there won't be anything with Lorna in it that actually deserves to be bought until MAYBE Prisoner X, depending on what I hear about it.
    I can also be reached on Twitter and WordPress.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad, now complete!

  6. #66

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    On Twitter, I'm seeing tweets where people list their fave character in various categories (Avenger, X-Men, etc). One of the categories is "Favorite 90s X-Factor." I haven't seen many of these tweets, but I've seen Lorna listed for 90s X-Factor a few times, and I find that's annoying me. Here's one example.

    Favorite X-Men team: 90s
    Favorite X-Men: Cyclops
    Favorite 90s X-Factor: Polaris
    Favorite New Mutant/X-Force: Cable
    Favorite Excalibur: Nightcrawler
    Favorite Gen X: Mondo
    Favorite Ally: Starjammers
    Favorite Villain: Apocalypse
    I get that in the most technical sense, it's a good thing for her to be acknowledged and I should be glad she's getting mentions. But I feel like having this category and putting her in it is restrictive. It implies 90s X-Factor was the best use of her, it theoretically knocks her out of consideration for other categories (people often feel they need different answers for diversity; see also maps with things like "top search term for state" where all the states have a unique term), and there are categories that would've been more fitting for her if they were present (e.g. Favorite Genoshan).

    As with a lot of things, this can easily seem minor to most people, like I'm making much of nothing. I've learned seemingly small things can have big impacts on perception, and how information is presented and what people say and don't say can influence what seems like a good direction to take things.
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    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad, now complete!

  7. #67
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    I really liked the first half of the 90s X-Factor. JM's run in particular is my favorite, but I also loved Peter David's short tenure as well. There were some flaws for sure, but it was the first time writers started to give Lorna a voice. Mackie's run wasn't very good for her IMO, and only got kinda better towards the end. Not my favorite era for the character at all, but better than most of what came before. It is nice to see people say Polaris was there favorite though, even if the quality wasn't always the greatest.

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    I really liked the first half of the 90s X-Factor. JM's run in particular is my favorite, but I also loved Peter David's short tenure as well. There were some flaws for sure, but it was the first time writers started to give Lorna a voice. Mackie's run wasn't very good for her IMO, and only got kinda better towards the end. Not my favorite era for the character at all, but better than most of what came before. It is nice to see people say Polaris was there favorite though, even if the quality wasn't always the greatest.
    Agreed. I'm not saying 90s X-Factor treated her poorly. In its time, it was good and did important work in repairing damage done to Lorna by Claremont. But it's one of those situations where something that's better than what came before shouldn't be mistaken for the best she can do and be.

    It's also one of those situations where I say these things because Lorna's best treatment and depiction hasn't happened yet. We've caught bits and pieces of what she would be at her best, but Marvel hasn't actually dedicated resources to her to make that best treatment happen. People have an incredibly strong tendency to look at a past use and say a character should go back to that, inviting creators to write a pale imitation of a bygone era, instead of actually writing a full-fledged and developed character that's building on and informed by those bygone eras.

    It's a problem Marvel especially has with the X-Men franchise. They keep rehashing old scenarios and situations instead of moving forward.
    I can also be reached on Twitter and WordPress.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad, now complete!

  9. #69
    Astonishing Member AbnormallyNormal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunabelle0 View Post
    But they are going that direction. It's lazy, bad writing. But they clearly plan to have her back track on all the development she's supposedly had. It's as if her making peace with what her father did and everything with Dawn was pointless now. Just to keep the damn shippers happy. It's horrible.

    I've had long talks with a friend in irl over how all over the place Lorna has been this season. How flipped it's been from last one. She didn't have a clear line of what was too far. And now? She comes across as a hypocrite. She's okay with what her father did or what she's done thus far, but not what others around her do?
    I agree with this completely. Polaris on the show is kinda dead to me now. Unless she ends up forming her own group with Esme or something. But if she truly just reverts back to s1 with Marcos, the whole show literally makes no sense for her anymore, and it feels so artificial and silly. It was interesting on the show to portray her in a more grey/antihero way. Thought provoking. Now they toss it away completely? For what? The Marcos fans still despise her and hate her. Everyone who liked her being a badass is very disappointed. Who is pleased by this? It's just terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    Lorna rejoining the Underground was a given before the season even started. Polaris has largely operated on the side of good throughout her entire comic history, and we've known via the writers that these characters are meant to closer and closer to their comic counterparts. Knowing that, Lorna was always going to rejoin the more heroic affiliation. Which is not the Inner Circle. Polaris joined with the Inner Circle because they took a more aggressive stance when it came to helping Mutants, and weren't just smuggling them to safer places like the Underground. Though it looks like the Underground will start taking on a more aggressive stance in these next couple of episodes, so hopefully that sticks around.

    And, yes, we've seen Lorna accept what her father did, and that he did that to help Mutants, but that doesn't mean that Lorna should do things the exact same way he did. As I said in the review thread, its important to highlight the differences between Lorna and her father. Last season we got to see what they have in common, and this season we're starting to see how they deviate from one another. The problem more so has to do with the vagueness of Reeva's plan, and what exactly that entails. We don't know exactly what it is, and Lorna is just making assumptions. So I think this plot is a little premature, and think Lorna should have had a more concrete idea of what the Inner Circle was doing before branching out.
    By no stretch of the imagination was Lorna rejoining Underground a "given" it was deeply shocking her sudden betrayal last episode. Almost nobody really thought it'd happen at least I didn't hear many people going "of course" or openly predicting it. Of course there were the usual Eclaris shippers whining every single week about wanting her to do it, but actually predicting/expecting it, nope...

    The Inner Circle arguably ARE the side of good in the show.

    Going closer to the comics can just refer to things like having a headband for example. Of course the entire meaning of the headband is now completely lost. It was meant to bring her closer to understanding her father? But then literally 2 episodes later she does the exact opposite. Again, terrible writing makes no sense.

    The Underground will not take a more aggressive stance except when it comes to attacking their fellow mutants who are actually trying to accomplish things. AKA all they've done the entire season. Only try to attack other more active mutants. Underground are essentially the mutant arm of the human government it seems to me... wanting to get back to the awful s1 status quo. Not heroic! Cowardly.

    The last few sentences you said I definitely do agree with though of course. Reeva's plan is to create a mutant homeland. Again, I'm fine with Lorna having qualms about "terrorists" being brought in. Confronting Reeva over it was fine. Asking questions is fine.

    But that's not what happened. She turned total traitor, and had a *horrible* freakout session to Marcos where she basically said SHE was totally in the wrong and he was always right. That is awful and pathetic.

    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    why are u almost speechless boo?

    I must say, before the show I didnt like the cuckoos but the show made me definitely changed my perspective about the characters. their approach and mindset towards the world I get it now and I understand the morally grey tactics they use on the show. they are definitely one of the more interesting characters. I like the hellfire club leader too (I cant remember her name), she is badass.

    yea I did like how lorna took what her dad gave her and embraced that legacy. it would really be cool to see magneto make a cameo on the show. and I'm still trying to figure out what happened to the xmen? It kinda makes me think this is when the xmen faked their deaths and they were hiding out in the outback. I hope its explained at some point.
    I'm almost speechless because you HATE the Fox-made films so much I just assumed you'd never give this show a chance. But I'm SUPER glad you like it! That's awesome

    And yeah I like how you can see things from the PoV of quasi "villain" characters like it makes you question ARE they villains? That's literally what's so good about the show it gets you to think about this stuff and not just 100% assume Good vs Evil like most of these shows do.

    As for your question what happened to the X-Men yeah a lot of people guess they are either like in space, or time travelled, or something. And yeah could be some kind of Siege Perilous thing too.
    Last edited by AbnormallyNormal; 01-11-2019 at 05:44 AM.
    Chris Claremont, Peter David, Mike Carey, Cullen Bunn = canon. Others = fanfic.

  10. #70
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbnormallyNormal View Post
    By no stretch of the imagination was Lorna rejoining Underground a "given" it was deeply shocking her sudden betrayal last episode. Almost nobody really thought it'd happen at least I didn't hear many people going "of course" or openly predicting it. Of course there were the usual Eclaris shippers whining every single week about wanting her to do it, but actually predicting/expecting it, nope...

    The Inner Circle arguably ARE the side of good in the show.

    Going closer to the comics can just refer to things like having a headband for example. Of course the entire meaning of the headband is now completely lost. It was meant to bring her closer to understanding her father? But then literally 2 episodes later she does the exact opposite. Again, terrible writing makes no sense.

    The Underground will not take a more aggressive stance except when it comes to attacking their fellow mutants who are actually trying to accomplish things. AKA all they've done the entire season. Only try to attack other more active mutants. Underground are essentially the mutant arm of the human government it seems to me... wanting to get back to the awful s1 status quo. Not heroic! Cowardly.

    The last few sentences you said I definitely do agree with though of course. Reeva's plan is to create a mutant homeland. Again, I'm fine with Lorna having qualms about "terrorists" being brought in. Confronting Reeva over it was fine. Asking questions is fine.

    But that's not what happened. She turned total traitor, and had a *horrible* freakout session to Marcos where she basically said SHE was totally in the wrong and he was always right. That is awful and pathetic.
    Mitteloss and I both said, before the season even started, that she would eventually part ways with the Inner Circle. On Youtube, Tumblr, and even here people could see Lorna would eventually rejoin the more heroic side of the show. Polaris has been running hot and cold with them all season. They're on the same page when it comes to helping mutants, but when they go the extra mile to do something awful, she's been against it. Lorna freaked out when Rebecca killed all those people, and when Reeva brought in more people like that (but more stable), she naturally wasn't going to work with them. She didn't want to work with Twist, and doesn't want to work with these recruits. You've even seen this yourself, saying you wouldn't root for Polaris if she did leave the Inner Circle, so clearly it didn't really come out of nowhere. I honestly don't see too much shock to these events myself.

    They do good for Mutants, sure, but they also go the extra mile to be ruthless and do things that aren't required. Stepfords forcing Wire to commit suicide, killing all those people at the facility Lorna gave birth at, assassinating that security guy who was speaking to the Underground, and Reeva and the Cuckoos murdering the rest of the old Inner Circle. That's not exactly heroic to most people.

    Getting closer to their comic counterparts, wasn't just about visuals, but the character themselves evolving into the heroes from the comics we know. I don't think its lost at all. That moment was about Lorna accepting who her father was, and what he did. We've seen Lorna be in denial of who her father was for two seasons (often referring to her Stepfather as her real Dad), and now she's moved beyond that. It was about moving on from that pain of him leaving her as a child, and that what he did, needed to be done. The same way she had to for Dawn. She's still going to be fighting for Mutants, but doing so in her own way, just not exactly the way her father did. Just because she's taken on the mantle of leadership, doesn't mean she has to behave exactly like Magneto.

    It seems to me that the Underground will be getting ready to counter the Inner Circle, in doing whatever it is they have planned, so I would say they're beginning to take a more aggressive stance. It seems like Vange is getting ready to lead, or prepare them, for a battle. This season Thunderbird seems to be taking on a assertive role, he just hasn't had the man power, or backing to really achieve anything, and I think that was the point of Evangeline saying that he was right.

    I don't think Lorna was ever going to agree with what Reeva was doing. She was either going to go up against her in a fight, or turn to the Underground for help. She ended up turning to the Underground. Either way, she was going to be a traitor to what the Inner Circle wanted to do, and was going to attempt to stop them. I didn't care for all the apologies, but Lorna did need to at least apologize for keeping a parent away from his child. That's not a good look. Thus far she hasn't backed down from her stance of killing, or taking down the plane, at least, not yet. She had that conversation with Reeva about the plane, so I think her apologizing was mostly about their relationship, and for helping someone like Reeva. We'll see though.
    Last edited by Soulsword323; 01-11-2019 at 11:44 AM.

  11. #71
    Ultimate Member juan678's Avatar
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    new cover variant uncanny 2 print

    https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/01...ore-printings/

  12. #72
    Ultimate Member juan678's Avatar
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  13. #73
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    Polaris has been nothing but wallpaper in the Dissembled arc. Why don't writers like writing Lorna?

  14. #74
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    A number of people have been wallpaper, so it isn't just Lorna. I just don't think these three are huge fans of the character, and that plays a factor in her not getting a larger role. They like her well enough to use her, but not enough to make her super prominent.

    Prisoner X looks like it could be good though.
    Last edited by Soulsword323; 01-11-2019 at 05:28 PM.

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by juan678 View Post


    new cover variant uncanny 2 print
    Thanks for sharing. I'm surprised they chose images that include Lorna this time. I wonder if it's partly cause many people were asking why Marvel wasn't including her on covers for the event.

    Quote Originally Posted by raidensix View Post
    Polaris has been nothing but wallpaper in the Dissembled arc. Why don't writers like writing Lorna?
    To Marvel's credit, Disassembled is a small move in the right direction in that it's the first time Lorna's allowed to take part in an X-Men event in over a decade. However, it's still nowhere near what she deserves considering everything about both Marvel's history of treatment toward her (especially recent history) and her current status in the eyes of everyone that isn't working for Marvel.

    I think Lorna not getting due respect is a mix of a lot of things. For her to get it, you need to have a) a writer willing to write her and treat her with respect, b) an editor willing to let her be used and oversee quality, and c) a company that doesn't shoot down opportunities for her.

    So you have three gatekeepers. If any one of those three refuses to see her value, or aggressively acts against it, then Lorna gets screwed over.

    Which is where nostalgia and the internal corporate culture come into play. People that work for Marvel have a tendency to obsess over their nostalgia even when that nostalgia is toxic and hurts characters like Lorna. At the same time, the natural tendency of any company is to try to maintain an atmosphere they already have and not introduce anything that could change it. That means hiring people that broadly think the same way. Meaning hiring people that are more likely to look at Lorna with the same lack of respect they have toward her.

    All of the above is why I'm quite willing to call out when Lorna's treated poorly or not given a fair opportunity like any other character would get.

    Typically, my point of comparison is "what would Marvel do with Havok if he was in this same situation." And I have to say, if the promotion they gave him when he was in First Class and their use of him since Fall 2017 is any indication, if he was the most popular character on a TV show like Lorna is, they'd be giving him his own ongoing solo book and putting him everywhere. But because it's Lorna and people at Marvel have nostalgia for times when she was treated poorly, it's a struggle just for her to appear anywhere, even as wallpaper.
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