Polaris: Lorna Dane Appreciation 2019

[Punch Dimension.]

Also you completely forgot to mention that she was just featured in the biggest X-Men event in decades and was also heavily featured in the new #1 flagship book.

[Soulsword323]

These covers are great! However, I do find it sad that Polaris' original costume lost the yellow accents over the years. While I love this costume, and it would still hold up if used today, I prefer it with a contrasting color.

[jmc247]

The original was the most visually dynamic of her many versions of the classic costume.



The version of twenty years ago was probably the closest to adding a warrior vibe to the princess feel. The first outfit had a bit of one, the current really has none.

[salarta]

Because Genosha was not relevant during this period story Ross chose to write.

But it's relevant to many, many things Marvel has done over the past 10-15 years. Ross choosing to write a period story does not wipe away Marvel choosing to not use something about Lorna's history that is far, far more important. Nor does it suddenly mean Marvel did not also have the list I just gave of non-Ross occasions where they forced the Havok connection while simultaneously ignoring Genosha.

This is not a lone incident to be taken in isolation.

I've addressed your points even when we don't agree. I'd ask you to do the same for me and finally answer the six million dollar question. Let me reiterate:

If I ask something and you don't want to answer, you're free to not answer it. Just as I only asked you once for proof of the many times you said Genosha came up for Lorna in the past 10-15 years, and haven't brought it up since; only doing so now as a needed point of comparison. I don't expect you to give them, nor am I going to try to get you to do so.

The bottom line is that I know when and where not to share certain things. If there's a time when sharing that here is right, and I'm still alive to do so, then I will. But I'm not going to do it when I know sharing would be a mistake. Same applies regardless of who asks.

I do appreciate that you're civil in asking. But it doesn't change that now's not the time.

[AbnormallyNormal]

I would be in favor of a Giant-Sized issue with Lorna and Erik. But yeah it'd even better for them to encounter Pietro and Wanda of course.

[powerpax]

Just as I only asked you once for proof of the many times you said Genosha came up for Lorna in the past 10-15 years, and haven't brought it up since; only doing so now as a needed point of comparison. I don't expect you to give them, nor am I going to try to get you to do so.

Right, but when that happened I told you I was unable to go rifling through those back issues at that moment in time, but I was sure someone else probably would. Someone then did immediately after me, so I considered the question closed.

The bottom line is that I know when and where not to share certain things.

I’m just not understanding what is so inappropriate or secretive about sharing your opinion about these books. It’s difficult to understand your point of view if you don’t explain it. If you don’t think you can do it now with everyone else, I guess that’s your prerogative. But when do you think you can? And why would it be a mistake? Your opinion is as valid as anyone else’s.

[powerpax]

The original was the most visually dynamic of her many versions of the classic costume.



The version of twenty years ago was probably the closest to adding a warrior vibe to the princess feel. The first outfit had a bit of one, the current really has none.

I do wonder if the second is the costume Jimenez drew pieces of on her in NXM. I’ve been fascinated by that half-costume for years. I might prefer a version of it back as it’s a bit more angular, sleek yet baroque than the current one.

[jmc247]

Yes, it’s the same though the energy hair and the skull choker would disappear and reappear in her time wearing that costume.

[jmc247]

I would be in favor of a Giant-Sized issue with Lorna and Erik. But yeah it'd even better for them to encounter Pietro and Wanda of course.

Not going to happen in terms of Pietro and Wanda until the decision to take down the Axis retcon comes down and then it would be a far bigger story/event then a one shot.

For those who feel like why can't Lorna get the push of a Jean or an Emma or wants Lorna to have popular non-romantic or family relationships here is what I will say. Jean is the A list straight woman of the X-Men. Storm is her best friend and ally who is a bit more morally ambiguous. Emma is her frenemy. Emma has a clear distinct personality, is at least solidly in the morally ambiguous camp, and writers broadly agree in these areas. For Lorna there hasn’t been a settled answer.

PAD's second run Lorna was a mash up of things. Early on in his run with her she talked with the filter off as in said what was on her mind in any given time. That was a continuation of what Austen did and DnA did and it worked in giving her the feel of a personality, though it went away not long after Breaking Points. Lorna under second run PAD had a wicked temper in place of mutant rights views or philosophical ambiguity and that didn't work out so well because it fell into the mid 90s problem of making her come off too much like a unthinking hot head.

Vita Ayala in Prisoner of X wrote a Lorna who personality wise was unassuming until a battle started and then it was like flicking a switch and she was making a very conscious decision to be utterly ruthless and remorseless in combat rather then looking like an uncontrolled hot head. If one is writing a normally reserved straight laced Lorna its probably the best contrast to do.

The enemy of good is often the perfect as the old saying go. If one doesn't give the positive attributes of a depiction of Lorna their just due then writers never learn with time what works and what doesn't with her.

So far I feel Hickman's writing of Lorna is better then what we saw in X-Men Disassembled and Blue, but has the feel of some of the same problems of her being too reserved and not a clear enough reason to be around as yet. I liked the scene between her and Scott for instance, but unless they have a romance it won't matter in the long run unless they really build both up as the founders of the respective mutant ideologies mantles though I don't know if the writer is going in that direction.

In terms of Lorna and Jean I don't see them building anything when Lorna is written as reserved and straight laced as she has been. The two characters when they come off too similar don't bring anything to the table which is why we see epic love for Jean and Emma interacting. In terms of Lorna/Emma it would be too much a poor man's Jean and Emma as I felt regarding their brief interaction in Blue unless Lorna gets more personality and edge back. Lorna and Esme worked in season 1 of The Gifted with Lorna the more straight and no nonsense, but who would bring holy terror to her enemies and Esme the flamboyant one who was more manipulative. However, it only worked when Lorna had her edge, it stopped working as they removed the edge to both characters and turned Lorna into a whiny loser.

My current take on Lorna and this is my last comment on the character for the next few weeks is that she is in a better place then she was a year or two ago, but there are things that need to be worked on if she is going to have more then family relationships and potential love interests.

[AbnormallyNormal]

I agree with you jmc. I've said I agree numerous times really.

But I think the problem is broader: generally speaking it doesn't seem like the fans tolerate moral ambiguity too well in the characters. Look at all the freaking out over this new status quo.

When someone is a fan of a character they seem to demand that character be viewed as a Pure Hero(ine) in all regards. Look at the Emma Frost fandom. They refuse to accept she is ambiguous, at least most of them refuse to accept it. Anything other than she is a hero is met with hostility. It's amazing to me...

And on the other side, in the year 2019 we still have lots of X-fans who regard Magneto as simply a Villain with capital V. Nevermind he stopped being that in 1983. Doesn't matter does it?

So yeah I think and I've told you this before, you're overestimating the general "space" there exists for ambiguous characters within X-Men. It's sad and I wish it was different.

Magik, X-23/Laura, Emma Frost, Mystique, Magneto are all more or less "quasi ambiguous" characters but like I pointed out, fans are always trying to force them squarely into one or the other "side". They seem intensely uncomfortable with the straddling and the complexity.

Or look at Kitty/Kate Pryde. Clearly Marauders is all about setting her down a more complicated/mature route. But don't tell the fans of her that. They will not tolerate it at all.

I wish people could understand, a character can still be interesting/exciting without them being Ethically Flawless. Like... honestly. It's allowed. If anything, I think that helps TO make a character more interesting!

[jmc247]

I am just happy Emma Dumont let it be known her feelings about the writing of the character in season 2 I was happy to personally let them have it as well after holding off. It was cathartic after the mess they made. I know some people who worked on the show and they all knew the writers failed it miserably in season 2 and spoke down the audience. Emma Dumont in contrast understood the character and the audience.

But, enough about that. All fans don't have to agree to go forward with a storyline direction and Lorna fans are by in large different then Kitty fans. You don’t see Lorna fans getting angry when Lorna start tossing metal into guards at high velocity as she did in Prisoner of X. But, it’s called different views and expectations. Most fans want their favorite character to be the ‘hero’ but that means different things to different people. I believe Emma Dumont said it best after season one of the The Gifted that Lorna and every character believed themselves the hero of their own story and that was a big chunk of what make season one interesting.

Anyway Hickman interview. He says his favorite character to write is Magneto around 48.00 and that he enjoys writing characters that are more antagonist then protagonist and also says he is better at it at it.

All that being said Dumont’s legacy lives on.





Nice costumes the bottom from NYCC this year and the top quoting from Lorna in Uncanny X-Men 443 still her best single issue in my view.

[salarta]

by cheetuspeepus.


I also want to go into reading lists. I'm increasingly asked for what I would suggest Polaris fans read, which is on the first page here. I try to stress that this is my suggested list, that other fans may have very different lists depending on where their interest lies. As an example, I'm sure many fans would include Prisoner X, while I wouldn't.

But what's prompting this post today is a tweet I saw where someone said Marvel Unlimited needed features added, one of which was the ability to create personal collections and share them. They mentioned an Essential Polaris as an example. Which reminded me of... this.

September 29, 2018, I made a post about the "list" Marvel created. It was in the midst of a character page overhaul that had many good elements, but really, really not this. In case you can't read it or Marvel changes it (including the link breaking some day), the list Marvel gives is:

• UNCANNY X-MEN (1963) #49 - intro issue
• GIANT-SIZE X-MEN (1975) #1 - launching Krakoa into space
• UNCANNY X-MEN (1963) #219 - becomes Malice, but description starts off talking about how Havok goes to see the X-Men
• UNCANNY X-MEN (1963) #249 - Lorna captured by Zaladane, but description talks about Havok coming to rescue her
• X-FACTOR (1986) #71 - Havok leads X-Factor; description says they're co-leaders
• X-MEN (2004) #182 - Lorna captured to become Pestilence; surprisingly no mention of Havok
• UNCANNY X-MEN (1963) #475 - Lorna getting thrown away into space
• X-FACTOR (2005) #243 - Lorna origin story
• ALL-NEW X-FACTOR (2014) #1 - Lorna leading team
• X-MEN: BLUE (2017) #8 - Lorna appearing on Blue; description talks about Magneto instead of Havok

At the time, I called this a Havok reading list of comics that involve Lorna, disguised as a Polaris reading list.

I stand by that assertion. Uncanny X-Men #49 is the only issue that doesn't involve Havok in some way. If I'm more lax on my judgment, arguments can be made for most of these entries as appropriate and meaningful for a Polaris reading list. But then you look at Uncanny #475 and Blue #8, and... no. Those are far from essential reads. The only worthwhile thing about Lorna's time in space was her interactions with Crystal and Luna, which had little panel time and Marvel's not used much since. I'd personally argue that 90s X-Factor doesn't count either, but that one's a gray area I could see some arguments for.

Meanwhile, Lorna has some truly essential reads that Marvel completely excluded. New X-Men #132 is the most obvious, for seeing her as she's pulled from Genosha's ruins after the genocide. Uncanny #431 is another due to showing what happened on Genosha for her. Uncanny #442-443 are also important because they give a clear view of who Lorna is and should be today, philosophically, and give her a great platform to speak from. But even if you're a diehard Austen hater and insist nothing he did had even one thing good about it, that still leaves New X-Men #132.

Marvel's exclusion of things like New X-Men #132 that actually mean something for Lorna as her own character, but inclusion of things like Uncanny #475 (sent to space to be a supporting character for Havok yet again) and Blue #8 (all her use hinging on how she can make Havok and Magneto look good), reveals Marvel's intent with their list. It would be a different matter if Marvel put out a list that had Lorna's core moments and the rest of this. An argument could've been made for Marvel trying to be comprehensive. But when you ignore things that are essential for Lorna today, while including things that are only essential for Havok, you're not making a Polaris list. You're making a Havok list.

And from this, it's little wonder that people need to ask other fans for lists. Marvel isn't actually giving them what they need. Even when it comes to something as simple as "I'm interested in this character, what should I read to get to know them better?"

[jmc247]

Its all about what comics one wants to list for reasons of paths and for character consistency. Lorna has eras when she has been a rather generic 1D hero or a victim. That is really for the most part the 80s and 90s conception of the character. The Marvel.com comic list was very much in that vain ignoring even her origins story comics like X-Men #50-51 where neither of those two things were the case. Lorna has never taken off as a character in this context and I don't believe ever will no matter if she is written Lorna for Lorna or Lorna for any other character. Bunn tried I will give him that, but Lorna was written under the early 90s pretty low key generic hero rubric which generally mixed with the stoicism was why I felt she was bland.

They certainly are missing the issues where she could be described as DnA called her 'rogue princess' persona is out and any where she has any real mutant rights views.

I felt that writers since House of M have struggled to come up with a coherent voice and persona for the character. The early 00s was the high point in comic book discussion, interest and energy for Lorna. After that the character quickly became lost as a coherent package of what she exists for, why and what motivates her. I mean in her space arc we broadly saw three different eras of Lorna play out at various times. The straight up generic hero and generic love interest version under Brubaker. The reserved warrior Lorna under parts of Yost, then Lorna the rogue political manipulator with a lack of filter to her mouth in War of Kings.

Generally I have felt Lorna doesn't work well when she is being used as a mouth piece of the writer and I know some fans want her to be a mouth piece of their views on minority group relations, but they have yet to make a case for how that helps her and from what I have seen it does the opposite. I wouldn't ever want her to be a mouth piece for my views. I want the character to have her own views based on what I believe works and makes sense for the character and also quite frankly what aids in her developing relationships with other X-Men that aren't family or love interests. I also feel her more political side and at times more impish side when not on mission (which we last saw in War of Kings) works for her. Unlike Magneto I don't think Lorna works too well reserved and stiff.

Magneto works well stoic in all things, but I think unless Lorna is leading a team or at war doesn't work particularly well as only stone faced stoic. I feel Lorna having a bit of an impish streak does advantage her and make her more enjoyable to read and I really think writers would like depicting her more as they love writing Emma. When it comes to the new era so far I feel as though its a step up from what we have seen of late as in its actually trying to build on a modern conception of the character, but we are on the five yard line after kickoff to a new era and it most certainly is a new era with more fan interest then anything we have seen in two decades when it comes to the x-books.

Anyway, art.

[Punch Dimension.]

It's refreshing to see a Polaris fan focus on what's right in front of them rather than some list and overblown agenda.

The fact that Hickman included her in his #1 and her conversations with Scott and Magneto have me hopeful that he has a long term plan for, and that he's the first writer to actually give Lorna a strong, consistent and distinct personality.

Now I don't expect her to receive the same sort of attention as Cyclops or Emma, which makes sense give how popular those two characters are these days, but i hope he can give her a distinctive arc.

Personally i think she should adopt some of Erik's more strident traits, give her some flavour.

[jmc247]

Divas: Marvel take over "Billie Eilish x Polaris" by Yigit Ozcakmak