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  1. #1336
    Claremazon Feminist Shadowcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    He's perfect for the book.
    Agreed, although Id swap out Medina, and replace him with Larraz. The few pages that had the FF in HoX made me love his FF.

  2. #1337
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    Ok... I get the idea that the end reveal takes away something from the history of the Fantastic Four -- but I also think that it allows for growth in a different direction.

    The FF have been around for nearly 60 years. Sometimes I think the status quo needs to be shaken up. I've grown tired of the same tropes being carried forward and repeated over multiple iterations. So the change in Reed's motivations -- I'm for it. And Johnny's update is more of the same -- but Sue's reaction is exactly the same as some of the detractors of it. So I'm willing to see where Slott goes with this one, because I doubt he wants to repeat the same storyline as Lee-Kirby did so long ago.

  3. #1338
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    I like this arc so far. The change in origin doesn't matter to me at all. It's not like Reed doesn't have plenty more to be guilty about. I guess the fact that there's been a destiny element to it for a long time with Franklin Richards being the chosen one, even being referenced in Hulk as of recent, in a meta since it being ALL Reed's fault doesn't hold water to me, so if it doesn't hold water in the comics I'm fine. I do think I was wrong before, and Slott is playing this new romance straight forward. Even before this arc, Slott has been hammering in the idea that Johnny "falling in love" quickly has precedence, which has convinced me that this really is something that he has been building up to for a while (for better or worse). I think it's easier to swallow from Sky's perspective than Johnny's, since being told who you love is a major part of her culture. If I'm being honest, and an attractive woman with wings told me I was her soul mate (at least under the circumstances presented), I'd roll with it. A lot of people would. I'm willing to see where it goes. Relationship aside, Sky has an opportunity to develop into an interesting supporting character.

    This is Slott we're talking about, I can't help but feel like a Fantastic Four event has to be somewhere down the pipleline, and if not, why not? It's a strategy that worked in selling his Spider-Man run despite many criticisms.

  4. #1339
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    The Overseer retcon is good because less than a minute after reading the page, I realized that this franchise has not a significant new villain, or anyone that even looks this cool, since the 1960's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Franklin Richards
    Fragile creatures, we are taught to fear the Reaper!
    Ever running, we are dead before we meet Her!
    Quote Originally Posted by Valeria Richards
    Fearless creatures, we all learn to fight the Reaper!
    Can't defeat Her, so instead I'll have to be Her!

  5. #1340
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scribbleMind View Post
    This is Slott we're talking about, I can't help but feel like a Fantastic Four event has to be somewhere down the pipleline, and if not, why not? It's a strategy that worked in selling his Spider-Man run despite many criticisms.
    There sure is: Empyre. FF and Avengers vs Kree and Skrulls?
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  6. #1341
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAS View Post
    Ok... I get the idea that the end reveal takes away something from the history of the Fantastic Four -- but I also think that it allows for growth in a different direction.
    No it doesn't.

    It absolves Reed of any guilt or responsibility for the transformation of his family, and especially Ben Grimm.

    This is like retconning Spider-Man's origin to make it so that the Burglar who he let go didn't kill Uncle Ben, in fact he had an identical twin who Spider-Man never met, and then did Ben on his own independently.

    It takes any human agency out of it.

  7. #1342
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Spider-Man getting Uncle Ben killed is the backbone of that entire character while Reed feeling bad about Ben is an old trope that's only occasionally brought up in modern books and doesn't have much weight anymore because Ben has accepted his condition, had it partially cured, and lives a content life. Depending on the full story we can find some new things for Reed to think about, like how he got his family caught up in the affairs of a dystopian radiation hellscape.
    Quote Originally Posted by Franklin Richards
    Fragile creatures, we are taught to fear the Reaper!
    Ever running, we are dead before we meet Her!
    Quote Originally Posted by Valeria Richards
    Fearless creatures, we all learn to fight the Reaper!
    Can't defeat Her, so instead I'll have to be Her!

  8. #1343
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    In the meantime, the FF appear in the preview of Annihilation Scourge Omega #1, which spoils developments in the other tie-ins.

    https://www.adventuresinpoortaste.co...ourge-omega-1/
    Human Torch/Fantastic Four/She-Hulk/Disney Big Hero 6 fanatic, Avatar-maker, and Marvel Moderator
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  9. #1344
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    They're already out anyway, if the preview spoils you it's your own fault.
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  10. #1345
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    Well for those who aren't getting all the tie-ins but good thing I did.

    Sue's reaction to the Johnny/Sky soulmate thing and her going to Earth only reinforces the Inhumans vibe for me.

    We've got another FF supporting character (of sorts) appearance elsewhere by
    spoilers:
    H.E.R.B.I.E., version 1.05., hired as a sound mixer by Mysterio in his guise as famous director Cage McKnight in his own biopic film. See The Amazing Mary Jane #3.
    end of spoilers
    Human Torch/Fantastic Four/She-Hulk/Disney Big Hero 6 fanatic, Avatar-maker, and Marvel Moderator
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  11. #1346
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Spider-Man getting Uncle Ben killed is the backbone of that entire character while Reed feeling bad about Ben is an old trope that's only occasionally brought up in modern books and doesn't have much weight anymore because Ben has accepted his condition, had it partially cured, and lives a content life. Depending on the full story we can find some new things for Reed to think about, like how he got his family caught up in the affairs of a dystopian radiation hellscape.
    Similarly Uncle Ben's death isn't always at the forefront of Spider-Man's character...but it's still important, just as Reed's guilt for changing the lives of his family through the rocket trip is.

  12. #1347
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Similarly Uncle Ben's death isn't always at the forefront of Spider-Man's character...but it's still important, just as Reed's guilt for changing the lives of his family through the rocket trip is.
    The fact is it's important that the rocket trip happened because Reed was wrong or made a mistake. Otherwise it means that he's always right and never wrong. And it denies him any agency or culpability.

  13. #1348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    The fact is it's important that the rocket trip happened because Reed was wrong or made a mistake. Otherwise it means that he's always right and never wrong. And it denies him any agency or culpability.
    Finding out that Reed's shields were actually at the proper strength for normal levels of cosmic ray bombardment does not mean that Reed is always right and never wrong. It's silly to even suggest that.

    Reed is plenty flawed as he is and, through his arrogance, has accumulated many mistakes. Not having the shields at adequate levels is small potatoes by now. Especially as Ben has long since accepted his condition.

    Reed was still rash to push them into taking that trip and clearly he failed to anticipate that another society might perceive their exploration as a hostile move.

  14. #1349
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Reed is plenty flawed as he is and, through his arrogance, has accumulated many mistakes. Not having the shields at adequate levels is small potatoes by now. Especially as Ben has long since accepted his condition.
    Ben will never entirely accept his condition. He has good days and bad days to quote a line from an earlier comic (I think by Waid). One writer might focus on the good days while another writer coming later will focus on the other aspects.

    Reed was still rash to push them into taking that trip and clearly he failed to anticipate that another society might perceive their exploration as a hostile move.
    This other society is painted and framed as evil, or led by an evil leader, and so not rational good-faith actors mistakenly thinking they are responding to a major threat (which at least puts the blame on Reed's actions as hubris), so it again excuses Reed.

    I mean Reed Richards was never an especially complex character but to the extent he was, the guilt over making Ben into a rock golem, was pretty interesting. Now even that's gone. Reed's guilt over Ben was a major part of Mark Waid's run, and Hickman's, his burden of wanting to "solve everything" and what that can cost.

  15. #1350
    Astonishing Member Abe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Ben will never entirely accept his condition. He has good days and bad days to quote a line from an earlier comic (I think by Waid). One writer might focus on the good days while another writer coming later will focus on the other aspects.



    This other society is painted and framed as evil, or led by an evil leader, and so not rational good-faith actors mistakenly thinking they are responding to a major threat (which at least puts the blame on Reed's actions as hubris), so it again excuses Reed.

    I mean Reed Richards was never an especially complex character but to the extent he was, the guilt over making Ben into a rock golem, was pretty interesting. Now even that's gone. Reed's guilt over Ben was a major part of Mark Waid's run, and Hickman's, his burden of wanting to "solve everything" and what that can cost.
    100% agree.
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