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  1. #3331
    Fantastic Member Jalysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STORM1977 View Post
    You’re kidding?! Lol that would’ve been so super F’d up! And Storm’s character fully assassinated. OK yeah I’m even more thankful we got XXM.
    Thank God, that didn't happen. Storm's character would've never recovered from that. Plus, you have the "Jezebel Stereotype" that black women are often saddled with, which would make the optics even more fucked up.

    I do remember people wondering if Storm and Cyke had sex in the Blackbird in X-Men Unlimited 1 (Rutdog's most hated issue) by the way the panels were set up. But I believe they were just resting. Plus, Xavier was right there--and that would've been ew. And most importantly, Storm was sick and was probably not in the right state of mind.

  2. #3332

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    Even Claremont himself toyed with the idea of pairing Scott and Ororo after the Dark Phoenix Saga; you can see it most clearly in God Loves Man Kills, but went the route of Maddie instead(to play out his original ending of DPS where Jean was just lobotomized instead, and she and Scott retired from the team). I am glad Morrison was stopped from his original plan, but Storm definitely did loose her place in the X-Lore to Emma as a result(for the decade or so that followed the New/X-Treme era). She really hasn't fully recovered to this day. If Hickman doesn't put Storm in a prominent role this run, Ororo will fade even further into the recesses of X-Lore(at least for the newest generations of fans).
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  3. #3333
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    I think Storm getting married to BP more than anything dropped her stock in the X-men than Emma.

  4. #3334
    Fantastic Member Jalysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    Even Claremont himself toyed with the idea of pairing Scott and Ororo after the Dark Phoenix Saga; you can see it most clearly in God Loves Man Kills, but went the route of Maddie instead(to play out his original ending of DPS where Jean was just lobotomized instead, and she and Scott retired from the team). I am glad Morrison was stopped from his original plan, but Storm definitely did loose her place in the X-Lore to Emma as a result(for the decade or so that followed the New/X-Treme era). She really hasn't fully recovered to this day. If Hickman doesn't put Storm in a prominent role this run, Ororo will fade even further into the recesses of X-Lore(at least for the newest generations of fans).
    There was also some vibes between them before the Brood Saga, when Scott found out about Corsair being his father--although that could be read more as friendship. But Claremont did mention in an interview that he and Byrne considered hooking them up together.

    Honestly, Ororo not being Scott's side chick and not getting her character assassinated was a better alternative. Yeah, she's supposedly not as prominent as before, but with the right writer, she can recover--whether it's now or years later. I'm not sure it will be Hickman, but someone else will come along.

  5. #3335

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    I think Storm getting married to BP more than anything dropped her stock in the X-men than Emma.
    It was a one-two punch. Missing the Morrison train was a huge loss already. She didn't get married to BP until after X-Treme/New. Honestly, though, Scott couldn't have been 'King of the Mutants' with a competent Storm on the X-Men, large and in-charge hot off her UN-sponsored XSE stint.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  6. #3336
    Fantastic Member Jalysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    I think Storm getting married to BP more than anything dropped her stock in the X-men than Emma.
    Oooh boy...

    lol You're not the only who said this because it's been argued up and down in prior Storm threads for years. I do think her being out of the X-Books for so long did hurt, but I blame the offices not working anything out right after the marriage. But I think Hudlin wanted to do something with X-Men and Storm, but was either shot down or he never got around to it.

  7. #3337
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    I think Storm getting married to BP more than anything dropped her stock in the X-men than Emma.
    It is poor usage in the era she was in charge that drop her stock. They didn't really have a plan for Storm. Xavier was peace existence with humans, Cyclops was mutant revolution, Storm was go hide in limbo. I mean heck Jean came back X-men Red and was pushing a Mutant Homeland. Storm didn't have proactive position for mutantkind/X-men so her run didn't produce anything of merit. It is not Storm fault but her stance could have say "X-men are heroes" and establish strong period of X-men doing superhero stuff. Imagine Storm and X-men walking Latervia smacking Dr Doom around. Imagine Storm and X-men stopping an Invasion from Annihilus. Imagine Storm and X-men saving New York from Ultron,etc.

    BP was high profile thing it really didn't hurt it actual expand Storm base of fans, X-men isn't the highlander so Emma being strong doesn't stop Storm from being strong at the same. Not being involved in big time stories from Morrison and Whedon yeah that hurt but not unrecoverable. Extraordinary x-men period when she had the Xavier(face/spokesperson of all mutants) and Cyclops(tactical leader of X-men) role and the writers did completely nothing with her and nothing is going to ever be used from that period that is the killer. Storm stock should have risen during that point, Storm should have classic stories during that point.

  8. #3338
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Emma nor Scott nor Wolverine nor Black Panther had anything to do with Ororo's lack of usage in the xverse. Was Wolverine being an xman keep him from being an avenger? No, truth of the matter is the xwriters simply didnt want to write her and hudlin served as a perfect scapegoat. After the marriage ended due to marvel not owning the xmen, the xoffices said they had big things planned for her. That included being Wolverine's sex toy and ultimately leading the xmen to a war with the inhumans where many regarded her as incompetent.
    Last edited by butterflykyss; 07-15-2019 at 12:23 AM.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  9. #3339

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    Yeah, I tend to wash the IvX stuff from memory, but that definitely did not help either. I just can't accept it. Storm, mistress of the elements, letting her people die from a cloud? It was soooo bad. But the franchise had already fallen far by that time, in general. Morrison's run set the tone for the last 15 years, and Storm only showed up to talk about green tea. Then Storm was absent for the whole Decimation thing, which has also set the tone since. IvX was a disaster, but it is still lower on the list.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  10. #3340
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    Yeah, I tend to wash the IvX stuff from memory, but that definitely did not help either. I just can't accept it. Storm, mistress of the elements, letting her people die from a cloud? It was soooo bad. But the franchise had already fallen far by that time, in general. Morrison's run set the tone for the last 15 years, and Storm only showed up to talk about green tea. Then Storm was absent for the whole Decimation thing, which has also set the tone since. IvX was a disaster, but it is still lower on the list.
    I havent read Morrison's run. from what I'm gathering she was non-existent. I tend to be in the camp who truly believes ororo will get better treatment in the xbooks when the offices become more diverse. and I honestly dont think this will change with Hickman. the offices are vanilla and so are the characters.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  11. #3341

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    Count me as another person who is glad Storm was spared from Morrison. I know that run has its fans, but that wasn't X-Men to me. He had some good ideas, but he twisted a lot of characters, had nonsensical ideas, and had little regard for continuity. Storm was WAY better off in XXM, with a writer who actually LIKES her and knows her value and strength as a character.

    In fact, in hindsight, it was the best consistent development the character has had since. Like butterkyss said, her not being in that run isn't what derailed her and limited her status in X-Men. It was the writers and editors not giving two sh**ts about the character. You always hear stories from writers and editors about what "fans" they are of the character, but 90% of the time, I personally think it's just hot air cause the results are just flat out awful. This has been a bad 15-16 years or so for Storm.

  12. #3342
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    I havent read Morrison's run. from what I'm gathering she was non-existent. I tend to be in the camp who truly believes ororo will get better treatment in the xbooks when the offices become more diverse. and I honestly dont think this will change with Hickman. the offices are vanilla and so are the characters.
    Morrison got to write her in New X-men 132


  13. #3343
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    It was a combination. The writer who built up Storm also destroyed her. It was Claremont who wanted to be so far removed from the x-verse. He built this X-treme X-Men and took it no where.

    Combined with the fact that he wanted his pet character with him effectively removing her from the main writers grasp.

    He them got locked in a room where they fed him gruel once a year and he writes a book. They then made him give the character to Hudlin. Which was a low point but she's recovered some what. When she got the main spotlight in Gold and IvX she got sidelined for Kitty.

    Claremont did the same with Tessa and Betsy. Fraction was able to rescue Psylocke. But Pak wasn't able to fully rescue Sage.

  14. #3344
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Tessa/Sage isnt quite the same as that character failed to take off despite Claremont trying to make her happen. She was an F list character that he tried to push hard but ultimately was irrelevant

  15. #3345

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    Claremont saved Storm during that time. Morrison would not have written Storm well over the long term. You only need read his manifesto to see some of the dumb ideas he had for a lot of the characters he didn't get. The only other option at the time was Austen, and we all know he would have done a crap job with her, too. Storm's make or break point was definitely in the mid 2000's and her being shipped off to BP was what effectively killed her status in the X-Men, so Claremont was not responsible for keeping her from any main writer's grasp.

    Even if he were, none of her subsequent writers have done anything substantial with the character anyway. Fraction didn't do anything with her. Too obsessed with Cyclops and Emma. Gillen was alright, but again nothing special there. Ellis did good though, but it was all over pretty quick. Woods started out ok then went off the rails with her. The less said about Gold and IvX the better. I think the source of a lot of problems with Storm is TPTB thinking she's so passive and pacifist. It's really hurt the character. Also having the franchise revolve around Cyke was a huge mistake that really damaged a lot of characters. As was using Wolverine in what was clearly a Storm role during Schism, even if I would have found that tiring.
    Last edited by Saturius; 07-15-2019 at 07:49 AM.

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