Ororo Munroe: Storm Appreciation 2019

[butterflykyss]

Apocalypse was originally portrayed to be black, not white. Any changes to his appearance has more to do with Marvel's rampant whitewashing of people of color

how does this depict him as black when he describes himself as native American and Indian (unless we are referring to any poc as black)?

I'm going to see if I can find that recent story about apocalypse where he was depicted as white. I get back in the day why whitewashing would occur but why it happens in 2019 I just dont get.

[butterflykyss]

I'm someone who wasn't impressed with the diversity of his Avengers but I'm willing to say he made an effort. And the fact that characters like Storm, Bishop, and Sunspot seem to be getting positions of importance in-universe is promising. But titles are one thing, what matters much more is story arcs and relationships so we'll have to see what happens going forward.

agreed! how many times have the xoffices stated they have big plans for ororo only for her to be depicted in inconsequential ways? I believe that is why some are not too invested with the new maurauders title. from NYCC the creative team says it's going to be a lot of Emma and then the previews shows what appear to be ororo and iceman cowering in fear as kitty saves the day. why would any storm fan be excited for this?

[Havok83]

how does this depict him as black when he describes himself as native American and Indian (unless we are referring to any poc as black)?

I'm going to see if I can find that recent story about apocalypse where he was depicted as white. I get back in the day why whitewashing would occur but why it happens in 2019 I just dont get.

I posted the scan for his skin color. The text is about his backstory in how he was worshipped as a god in different religions/civilizations. More recent renditions of Apocalypse erase the brown skin and have him blue or something much lighter

[Strong Girl Daken]

so going off this idea how does Ororo work around this or do you think she can? with the exception of her all the other mutants of krakoa are white. by continuing to work with mutants does she perpetuate the agenda of said people?

I think Storm would know that her friends and colleagues that she trusts who are white would never consciously act racist and would practice anti-oppression in their everyday lives while making an effort to inform themselves of the experiences of black and mutant folks in order to account for whatever bias might have been constructed unconsciously. Jean of the DPS fit the former (would not consciously act racist) but probably never did the latter (anti-oppression and anti-bias training), hence her disturbing fantasy.

It's 2019 now and contexts have changed in many ways, like the increasing knowledge that white folks should do the work of informing themselves (like I imagine Jean and other white X-men would have done, off-panel of course because writers don't want to write that). Another way is that race never gets talked about in these stories (so-called "colour-blindness" that we know is a fantasy). Claremont at least went there, and it was sometimes an important ugliness (like that DPS scene).

Of course, more people of colour in decision making positions in Krakoa would be something Storm would care about. We are talking about the foundations of a nation and we don't want to repeat America's white "founding fathers" myths and all the nastyness associated. It's obviously great that Bishop is a captain and Storm is respected, but the Krakoa council really needs more. I wish Dani was on the council too. What's Frenzy's status quo these days?

[Strong Girl Daken]

The fact that she:
Has been a highly respected leader of the X-Men, of long standing.
Jean's best friend and "sister".
Actually has presence and a voice at the council table.
Is actually respected as a hero of the Mutant Cause by Xavier and Magneto and her White peers.
So...I don't see the whole 'white people are inherently racist' being applicable to the X-Men as envisioned by Len Wein and Dave Cockrum, when all evidence points to the opposite, as seen in Giant-sized X-Men No.1, and followed through to the present.
There is nothing for her to "navigate around".

Giant-sized X-men No.1 where Xavier called Storm delusional for participating in a ceremonial role of her people and telling her she needs to grow up and help people in America? I mean, if that doesn't exemplify a white person who doesn't think they're racist being racist then I don't know what does.

And I never said "all white people," but certainly white people in a white supremacist society in which white people benefit materially and representationally, like in America where many white folks have ancestors that enslaved people a handful of generations ago.

[Devaishwarya]

Yes, context has changed in many ways and the writers are certainly more aware of their roles in perpetuating and exemplifying that change but...The X-Men, specifically, has always stood for minority inclusivity (in a broad sense). So it's just a matter of 'updating' their motto for today's world.
I don't necessarily see a need for additional POC on the council itself...as, by reputation, Ororo is more than capable of speaking for/representing Krakoa's entire mutant community.
Besides, who else is there, with her standing and experience?

[Strong Girl Daken]

Yes, context has changed in many ways and the writers are certainly more aware of their roles in perpetuating and exemplifying that change but...The X-Men, specifically, has always stood for minority inclusivity (in a broad sense). So it's just a matter of 'updating' their motto for today's world.
I don't necessarily see a need for additional POC on the council itself...as, by reputation, Ororo is more than capable of speaking for/representing Krakoa's entire mutant community.
Besides, who else is there, with her standing and experience?

Well the fact that Ororo seems to be the only one speaks to the job that the X-men have done elevating people of colour. But like I said, Dani Moonstar brings a ton of experience and I'm not sure how prominent she'll be in New Mutants. Frenzy too since she's walked the full villain-hero spectrum and also because she remembers Age of X. Sunspot too but I'm happy to see him have an interesting role in New Mutants.

[Devaishwarya]

Giant-sized X-men No.1 where Xavier called Storm delusional for participating in a ceremonial role of her people and telling her she needs to grow up and help people in America? I mean, if that doesn't exemplify a white person who doesn't think they're racist being racist then I don't know what does.

And I never said "all white people," but certainly white people in a white supremacist society in which white people benefit materially and representationally, like in America where many white folks have ancestors that enslaved people a handful of generations ago.

With respect to that scene where Xavier recruits Storm in G-SXM 01...it's certainly up for interpretation, and yours, is just one. I surely didn't read that scene as calling out Storm in any such disrespecting manner...but like you said...this is a different time/modern-day context.
Perhaps, there needs to be a separation of reality from fiction. Because very little you've posited can be ascribed to the X-Men and Storm, specifically...as they have been written throughout the decades.
You cannot retroactively go back in time and review everything that's been drawn and written decades ago and recontextualise using today's social sensibility...You can, but what would be the point? To what end?
Can't it be chalked up to: A simpler time? A less PC time when socio-political issues weren't such a hotbed of contention? And hope that today's writers are more in tuned with the public sensibilities of today?

[Devaishwarya]

Well the fact that Ororo seems to be the only one speaks to the job that the X-men have done elevating people of colour. But like I said, Dani Moonstar brings a ton of experience and I'm not sure how prominent she'll be in New Mutants. Frenzy too since she's walked the full villain-hero spectrum and also because she remembers Age of X. Sunspot too but I'm happy to see him have an interesting role in New Mutants.

but...how well are they respected and trusted by ALL...and by the other members of the Council?
Sure, by today's standards, it would be nice to have more POC representation at the Council but with Storm there, I would say we are very well represented and more isn't needed.

[Strong Girl Daken]

With respect to that scene where Xavier recruits Storm in G-SXM 01...it's certainly up for interpretation, and yours, is just one. I surely didn't read that scene as calling out Storm in any such disrespecting manner...but like you said...this is a different time/modern-day context.
Perhaps, there needs to be a separation of reality from fiction. Because very little you've posited can be ascribed to the X-Men and Storm, specifically...as they have been written throughout the decades.
You cannot retroactively go back in time and review everything that's been drawn and written decades ago and recontextualise using today's social sensibility...You can, but what would be the point? To what end?

I never recontextualized a single thing. I've been reading these examples within the contexts of the 70s and 80s, where Xavier's disregard for Storm's role and responsibility to her people wasn't questioned and where someone like Jean could live without meaningfully examining her unconscious and internalized biases. I mean, I still love Claremont's iconic run but it should be read in context.

but...how well are they respected and trusted by ALL...and by the other members of the Council?
Sure, by today's standards, it would be nice to have more POC representation at the Council but with Storm there, I would say we are very well represented and more isn't needed.

Well I disagree if you think one non-super villain person of colour out of 13 is representational enough or that one person of colour represents all people of colour in something as important as that council.

[Devaishwarya]

Your interpretation of that scene is not the Only and Truest reading of that scene...it's just Your interpretation/understanding. While valid to you, is certainly not valid to me.

For the purpose of this story? It most certainly is enough...Given who is representing.
Otherwise...you would have a Council of 25 and more, if you want every mutant minority represented...and that's not including the LGBTQ mutants.

Thank the Hadari Yao, you are not the writer of these stories.

[Strong Girl Daken]

For the purpose of this story? It most certainly is enough...Given who is representing.
Otherwise...you would have a Council of 25 and more, if you want every mutant minority represented...and that's not including the LGBTQ mutants.

Thank the Hadari Yao, you are not the writer of these stories.

Yeah, thank Hadari Yao for continuing to be a token.

[Devaishwarya]

Storm is by no means, has never been, will be...a "token" anything.
Again...just because that's how You read it...does not make it so.

[Stormrocks]

how does this depict him as black when he describes himself as native American and Indian (unless we are referring to any poc as black)?

I'm going to see if I can find that recent story about apocalypse where he was depicted as white. I get back in the day why whitewashing would occur but why it happens in 2019 I just dont get.

The last story I can think of where they (incorrectly) made him white the 12 story line. When Jean give him a dose of telekinesis form the inside out, it turned out to be an old white man inside the celestial armor. There may be a more recent one but that the one I can think of.

[Strong Girl Daken]

Again...just because that's how You read it...does not make it so.

Interpretations have evidence. You've said both that the X-men stand for minority inclusion and that Storm is the only person of colour with enough experience in 60 years of publishing history to be on a council of 13 members. That's a contradiction.