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  1. #9526
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Rider View Post
    Yep. Guggan’s responses just felt “safely canned”. I can understand the essential need for these writers to be in the same page to (finally) achieve and maintain some consistency for characters appearing in other titles but I don’t see that as a basis to diminish her significance or prominence in the X-Verse.

    Plus, I also enjoyed this last issue of BP. A good conversation that showed them as being relatable as a couple. Coates has proven he knows how to write them together in a way that doesn’t diminish them individually, which is well beyond Hudlin.



    I hear you. Not to rain on your positive support of the book you like but....While her decision to join made sense Storm shouldn’t be Kitty support. She was a shaper of the X-Verse that a string of white X-writers (from Fraction to Guggenheim) just don’t know what to do with/simply couldn’t relate to. Cyclops isn’t Magneto or Xavier support. He’s picking a rotating roster to address Krakoan threats. That’s more the prominent type of roles that spring to mind when I think of Storm when it comes to X-roles.

    If they opted the HFTC route with her that could be interesting but she shouldn’t be below Emma or Kitty. Storm isn’t infamous and has an extensive relationship with many heroes outside of the X-verse/prior government work/connections. Why it is that she’s always some secondary plan that takes a back seat to every popular white X-verse character/plans that we don’t see actually happen?

    This Marvel’s arguably most popular female heroine, most premier/well known black female character and one of their most popular black characters period and she’s....in “works for some alleged big plan”. We’ve heard this so many times to our disappointment.

    But hey...at least she is there vs other characters who aren’t at all.....? OK.



    Agreed. And we’ve already seen Storm change Water to gas and ice to liquid. I would hope, if Guggan allegedly knows Storm like he claimed in his interview, recognizes that.

    Or simply have them be omega level mutants with great team synergy but keep the regressive power combinations out. They can just be omega level elemental nightmares who can Collaborate in a highly decimating way. Here is where he really needs to show some creativity that could separate him from the previous writers who think that her bringing in moisture (and hopefully not while over the ocean) for Iceman to freeze :-/...
    1. safely canned is a perfect expression lol. wouldnt it be amazing to have cohesive stories across all of marvel books? as much as it has been long overdue to have such cohesion, i dont believe this to be the reason storm doesnt have a prominent role. she may a story here or there but this book will orbit around Emma shaw and pryde.

    I'm so happy you finally got to read the issue and enjoyed it. I thought both characters were edited suth respect to the other.

    2. you hydrogen bombed me with this post! epic and true in every way. why is she always secondary within a vision other characters have for mutantkind? do you think the xoffices would ever have cyclops support kitty in her pirating adventure? why do we storm fans accepts scraps and call it a delicacy?

    3 what synergy attack do u think the two could perform?
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  2. #9527
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlkGldBlu View Post
    I over look your pettiness to ask... What has she done?
    these are the hard questions that need to be answered. but I will try: absolutely nothing lolol

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Rider View Post
    Well said. I think one of the aspects I’ve always admired about Storm when I was first introduced to her in comics was how wise beyond her years (both intellectual and emotional intelligence). And I found the Storm/BP discussion to supportive and show a depth to their intimacy.
    agreed beloved. as I mentioned previously I would hate if we didnt have coates because the xbooks ain't doing it for me relative to storm.

    hey loves please vote:

    https://www.adventuresinpoortaste.co...-x-men-survey/
    Last edited by butterflykyss; 12-10-2019 at 08:49 PM.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  3. #9528
    Extraordinary Member stormphoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Rider View Post


    I hear you. Not to rain on your positive support of the book you like but....While her decision to join made sense Storm shouldn’t be Kitty support. She was a shaper of the X-Verse that a string of white X-writers (from Fraction to Guggenheim) just don’t know what to do with/simply couldn’t relate to. Cyclops isn’t Magneto or Xavier support. He’s picking a rotating roster to address Krakoan threats. That’s more the prominent type of roles that spring to mind when I think of Storm when it comes to X-roles.

    If they opted the HFTC route with her that could be interesting but she shouldn’t be below Emma or Kitty. Storm isn’t infamous and has an extensive relationship with many heroes outside of the X-verse/prior government work/connections. Why it is that she’s always some secondary plan that takes a back seat to every popular white X-verse character/plans that we don’t see actually happen?

    This Marvel’s arguably most popular female heroine, most premier/well known black female character and one of their most popular black characters period and she’s....in “works for some alleged big plan”. We’ve heard this so many times to our disappointment.

    But hey...at least she is there vs other characters who aren’t at all.....? OK.

    ..
    For the most part your right. But the way I see as of now, it’s not that big of a problem. I don’t think Storm is below Emma or Kitty. If that’s how ya feel I get it. But imo I don’t feel that way honestly. This book isn’t necessarily even about Kitty. Now, I understand that you expect Storm to have this big role to play in DoX because as you said she helped shaped the X-Verse. And your right. She should she is arguable Marvels most popular female and black female hero. With as much connections she has to others outside of the X-Men you’d think she’d have something. But, the reality is she wont be any of that cool stuff until we have the right writer or push.

    What I won’t do is sit around and complain about why it’s not fair Kitty should be leader(even though Kitty has been groomed for this since she become an X-Man by Storm herself.) , but be happy for what Storm is actually apart of and being used for. You say helped shaped the X-Verse look at her she’s a member of the Council each person on that council has helped shape the X-Verse. Not only that Storm is actually out in the field fighting and helping mutants get to Krakoa. That’s a hell of a lot better than waiting around to be the next mutant to show up on Hickmans Rotating roster shiiit.

    Your not raining on my support of the book you can’t. The book is good it’s funny, dramatic and action packed. I like both Duggans and Coates portrayal of Storm. I’m getting best of both worlds. Granted I have my own little issue with Coates, but I’m happy. Sorry for anyone else who isn’t.
    Last edited by stormphoenix; 12-10-2019 at 09:26 PM.
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  4. #9529
    Spectacular Member STORM1977's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormphoenix View Post
    For the most part your right. But the way I see as of now, it’s not that big of a problem. I don’t think Storm is below Emma or Kitty. If that’s how ya feel I get it. But imo I don’t feel that way honestly. This book isn’t necessarily even about Kitty. Now, I understand that you expect Storm to have this big role to play in DoX because as you said she helped shaped the X-Verse. And your right. She should she is arguable Marvels most popular female and black female hero. With as much connections she has to others outside of the X-Men you’d think she’d have something. But, the reality is she wont be any of that cool stuff until we have the right writer or push.

    What I won’t do is sit around and complain about why it’s not fair Kitty should be leader(even though Kitty has been groomed for this since she become an X-Man by Storm herself.) , but be happy for what Storm is actually apart of and being used for. You say helped shaped the X-Verse look at her she’s a member of the Council each person on that council has helped shape the X-Verse. Not only that Storm is actually out in the field fighting and helping mutants get to Krakoa. That’s a hell of a lot better than waiting around to be the next mutant to show up on Hickmans Rotating roster shiiit.

    Your not raining on my support of the book you can’t. The book is good it’s funny, dramatic and action packed. I like both Duggans and Coates portrayal of Storm. I’m getting best of both worlds. Granted I have my own little issue with Coates, but I’m happy. Sorry for anyone else who isn’t.
    Good chat with you and Wind. I am agreeing with you SP. I really think it’s too early to tell how Storm will be handled by Duggan to condemn every perceived slight or error in the X-Men relaunch. I’m giving it at least 6 months before I judge it.

    Wind - Always like the knowledge and thought through posts but I have to disagree with you on some of your points. I do like Storm’s role in BP’s book. I can see your points about the unfairness and the culmination of Storm’s handling over the years - Fraction/Gillens Uncanny, Extrarodinary, Gold, WatX, Uncanny X-Force, and Wood’s runs were not good results for Storm and it sucked to see her reign as a leader go through an endless walk on hot coals to a resounding self demotion and assassination of her time as an accomplished prominent X-figure. To a degree same can be said for Scott and Emma, except I agree with your point about how they continue to be immediately prominent in pretty much all relaunches. But I think you’re condemning Duggan for what has been a pretty good set-up so far, is premature and you’re not giving him a fair shake. Give the run a chance and read it. I think your feelings will change. Also I think Hickman has a plan for Storm.

    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    Thanks for posting. I voted.

  5. #9530
    Storm Goddess Wind Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    1. safely canned is a perfect expression lol. wouldnt it be amazing to have cohesive stories across all of marvel books? as much as it has been long overdue to have such cohesion, i dont believe this to be the reason storm doesnt have a prominent role. she may a story here or there but this book will orbit around Emma shaw and pryde.

    I'm so happy you finally got to read the issue and enjoyed it. I thought both characters were edited suth respect to the other.

    2. you hydrogen bombed me with this post! epic and true in every way. why is she always secondary within a vision other characters have for mutantkind? do you think the xoffices would ever have cyclops support kitty in her pirating adventure? why do we storm fans accepts scraps and call it a delicacy?

    3 what synergy attack do u think the two could perform?
    Agreed. And nah Cyclops nor Emma would not be placed a secondary to Kitty.

    I honestly wouldnít have them ďsynergizeĒ in the way some are suggesting because I think it would be regressive to both characters. These are both omega level mutants. Show us what that means. Bobby can manipulate massive amounts of water, achieve absolute zero, create golems, manipulate heat exchange, etc. If Duggan goes this route I would hope he highlights how their powers differ vs overlap. Like have Bobby dive into ocean become a massive ice golem or become a massive freezing tidal wave while Storm manipulates the water to create a massive whirlpool to pound a fleet and then flash-freeze the pool with ice spikes coming out that stabs through the hulls and strands the fleet in place. Or Storm super heats the water and air to bathe targets in scalding steam.Or have Bobby turn into mist and just beats the shit out of a bunch a goons with ice fists popping out of the mist randomly (his conciousness and fine control being every where at the same time). I think there is a lot they can do with just their temperature and water manipulation alone, and I think letting them attack in their own way simultaneously as omega elemental bad asses but in their own/non-typical way is the better way to go.
    Last edited by Wind Rider; 12-10-2019 at 10:50 PM.

  6. #9531
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    I don't that was the main issue.
    Storm suffers from the same issue Cyborg does at DC.
    Over her 40+ years- what stories would be considered the essential Storm centric stories? As a LEAD not the support of co-lead.
    Those stories where you say "YES I am proud to be a Storm fan because of this story right HERE!" Like Cyborg-she does not have that many especially in the late 90s-NOW.

    Now if her book came out the same time as she got married and was a companion book to Panther-like we saw with Tim Drake's Robin while he was in Batman. Panther shows her as a wife and queen and the solo shows her as a mutant/black woman.

    That is your bridge between franchises. There is a HUGE consequence to not fully developing a character especially one of color in team books.

    Also remember there are stores that take issue with SOME black female lead books.

    Some for legit business reasons (they don't sell-an issue that is HUGE with oversea stores)
    Some for racist reasons- Image's Motor Crush says HI.

    So remember that hurts sales. It's starting to change but we have a LONG way to go.
    I don't think her blackness is the main issue either. Since you made the comparison to Cyborg (I enjoyed him in Teen Titans) I'm inclined to roll with that. I agree that she doesn't have many stories centered on her solely. Most of her development came alongside her teammates. She's exactly like Cyborg when you frame it that way.

    Most of us here only have her glory days to fall back on. She isnt a leader anymore. That part of her character doesn't get shine. And she apparently has no vision for mutantdom other than what Xavier gives her as the father she never had. Both Jean and Nightcrawler have that angle covered under the new Krakoa regime. What Avenue is available to her that feels fresh and isn't taken by any of the other mutants prominent mutants? I can think of a few, but the big obvious one has to do her ties as a black woman. I say that because Greg Pak touched on her most personal storylines in her solo. To many people it read as her greatest hits. I felt the same when I first read it. It took me some time to greater value in his depiction of her. Initially I was put off with his treatment of her goddess phase.

    Pak used her ties to Yukio, Forge, Callisto, Beast and Wolverine. Those really are the most meaningful ties she has outside There aren't any other mutants with those specific connections. I understand why Pak used them to try and create new and exciting stories for HER mythos. How much sense does it make to take the opportunity for unique stories away from her?

    IMO both WAP and her solo set the stage for her to have more stories that speak directly to her character and her unique position as a bridge between X-Men and Wakanda. I would say Gentle fits that position much more believably, but he's nonexistent. They're both now stuck in the rut as minority team members that get no further development outside of being the noticeably different one on a predominantly white mutant team. Its sad that she can be used in advertising as proof of their commitment to diversity, but none of the stories actually reflect what it means for her.

  7. #9532
    Storm Goddess Wind Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STORM1977 View Post
    Good chat with you and Wind. I am agreeing with you SP. I really think itís too early to tell how Storm will be handled by Duggan to condemn every perceived slight or error in the X-Men relaunch. Iím giving it at least 6 months before I judge it.

    Wind - Always like the knowledge and thought through posts but I have to disagree with you on some of your points. I do like Stormís role in BPís book. I can see your points about the unfairness and the culmination of Stormís handling over the years - Fraction/Gillens Uncanny, Extrarodinary, Gold, WatX, Uncanny X-Force, and Woodís runs were not good results for Storm and it sucked to see her reign as a leader go through an endless walk on hot coals to a resounding self demotion and assassination of her time as an accomplished prominent X-figure. To a degree same can be said for Scott and Emma, except I agree with your point about how they continue to be immediately prominent in pretty much all relaunches. But I think youíre condemning Duggan for what has been a pretty good set-up so far, is premature and youíre not giving him a fair shake. Give the run a chance and read it. I think your feelings will change. Also I think Hickman has a plan for Storm.



    Thanks for posting. I voted.
    Fair enough. I get that his approach is setting up the series but Iím still not getting the book until I actually see that Storm has a role in it, will be written competently (all the series you named speaks volumes on that component) and will get development.
    Be the change you wish to see in the world.

  8. #9533
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Okay, I want to call bullsh!t on a few things here. Blaming Hudlin, Coates(yes, I'm one of his biggest detractors I know) or any other writer for the X-offices failure to use Storm or give her a greater role in leading not just the X-Men but mutants in general is just a load of crap. It's the responsibility of the X-editors/writers to use these characters in meaningful ways. To say you can't do anything with Storm because she's in Black Panther is just a cop out and not living up to your "profession" as a writer.

    During Schism, the X-office had the perfect opportunity to use Storm as the opposing view to Scott's world view? Nope, they used Logan instead. Of all of Xaviers' students, Storm was the one who preached his ideals the most but they chose to go another direction, no problem. Storm wasn't married at the time so that's no excuse.

    Coates has used Storm during his BP run and that's great. How he has used her is the issue. He's fleshed out some aspects but will any of his developments carry over into a book that he's not writing? That remains to be seen and given the track record of the X-office, I'm skeptical.

  9. #9534
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Pretty much, Marvell2100.
    The writers during the Utopia-Schism era were just not interested in writing/using her in a meaningful manner. That's all. It's not that they couldn't...they chose not to, for whatever reasons.

    I also think that Duggan's recent interview has been horribly misconstrued where it comes to Storm and her current stint in BP.
    They obviously wanted her to be a part of HoX/PoX/DoX and they did place her in-story but in a capacity that didn't impact on or couldn't be impacted by what was taking place in BP, at the time of their writers' retreat. If nothing else, they seemed to be respectful of what Coates was doing with respect to how important she was to his Wakanda Space War story. (which was Not At All imo but...not the time nor the place)

    That's not to say they couldn't have just gone ahead and have Storm be "large and in charge" so to speak, but they decided on a path that didn't step on any editorial/writers' toes...at. the. time. Again...at. the. time...when they were discussing the paths forward and characters for the DoX books.
    Duggan stated that he wanted Storm to be a part of Marauders. He just wasn't certain in what capacity he could have/use her. (And Keep in mind...HiX-Man did pointedly include her as a member of the Quiet Council, prior to DoX).

    Things might have changed since then.
    Because really...I don't think Storm's physical presence in BP is integral to how that story unfolds...at least not from what I've gleaned from the reviews. She seems to be woefully tertiary and somewhat "forced" to the plot resolution (but that's most likely my Coates-hate speaking, I freely admit).
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa, FOREVER!!!

  10. #9535
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    The only time the X-office had an excuse was during the marriage, when Storm was forcibly removed from their control and they were given limited access to her.

    Otherwise, they’ve just chosen to de-prioritize her and allow writers to treat her as ineffectual so characters like Cyclops, Logan, and Kitty can shine. I do appreciate that they now seem genuinely interested in giving Coates space to do his thing, but they shouldn’t let that stop them from making her central to Krakoa.

  11. #9536
    Storm Goddess Wind Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Quiet Councilor View Post
    The only time the X-office had an excuse was during the marriage, when Storm was forcibly removed from their control and they were given limited access to her.

    Otherwise, they’ve just chosen to de-prioritize her and allow writers to treat her as ineffectual so characters like Cyclops, Logan, and Kitty can shine. I do appreciate that they now seem genuinely interested in giving Coates space to do his thing, but they shouldn’t let that stop them from making her central to Krakoa.
    Quoted for truth!

  12. #9537
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    I had a storyline awhile back where Storm revived Genosha and turned it into a nation where all races, mutants, humans, Inhumans, etc., who were willing to work together could live.

    She would have worked out treaties with friendly nations. Conflict would come from each of those same races who did not want to work together(each group would have their own terrorists groups)) and from big corporations who made huge profits off the war between the various races.

    I think it could have become an X-title in the end. X-Nation or something.

  13. #9538
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    I had a storyline awhile back where Storm revived Genosha and turned it into a nation where all races, mutants, humans, Inhumans, etc., who were willing to work together could live.

    She would have worked out treaties with friendly nations. Conflict would come from each of those same races who did not want to work together(each group would have their own terrorists groups)) and from big corporations who made huge profits off the war between the various races.

    I think it could have become an X-title in the end. X-Nation or something.
    Sounds amazing. A Storm with her own agenda/vision/manifesto is long overdue. Writers seen stuck in the loop of Storm getting the shit dumped in her lap when the other leaders are off the board. It’s always a reactive take. I’m ready for a proactive Storm who tells these old white dudes to get onboard or go fuck themselves.

  14. #9539
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Okay, I want to call bullsh!t on a few things here. Blaming Hudlin, Coates(yes, I'm one of his biggest detractors I know) or any other writer for the X-offices failure to use Storm or give her a greater role in leading not just the X-Men but mutants in general is just a load of crap. It's the responsibility of the X-editors/writers to use these characters in meaningful ways. To say you can't do anything with Storm because she's in Black Panther is just a cop out and not living up to your "profession" as a writer.

    During Schism, the X-office had the perfect opportunity to use Storm as the opposing view to Scott's world view? Nope, they used Logan instead. Of all of Xaviers' students, Storm was the one who preached his ideals the most but they chose to go another direction, no problem. Storm wasn't married at the time so that's no excuse.

    Coates has used Storm during his BP run and that's great. How he has used her is the issue. He's fleshed out some aspects but will any of his developments carry over into a book that he's not writing? That remains to be seen and given the track record of the X-office, I'm skeptical.
    We don't agree on everything, but I appreciate your ability to shoot straight from the hip. AvX til now the ball has been completely in the hands of the X-writers. She's been on multiple teams. We've read multiple interviews. They don't want to tell stories with her on top. I wish Fearless was an ongoing. I wonder if that would hold them back from doing something imaginative with her as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    I had a storyline awhile back where Storm revived Genosha and turned it into a nation where all races, mutants, humans, Inhumans, etc., who were willing to work together could live.

    She would have worked out treaties with friendly nations. Conflict would come from each of those same races who did not want to work together(each group would have their own terrorists groups)) and from big corporations who made huge profits off the war between the various races.

    I think it could have become an X-title in the end. X-Nation or something.
    This is amazing. Why wouldn't she do something along these lines? Goddess of balance indeed!

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