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  1. #5581
    Astonishing Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    You kmow the double standards that mutants encounter and this is also a new nation; they have not been fully vested in the eyes of some so their motives are not relatively known.





    I think you hsve to remember krakoa would probably not have been recognized by the un as a nation if not for Emma manipulating these world leaders with her mind. moreover, wakanda has been an isolated nation. they look after their own above anyone else. them doing the same here shouldnt be a surprised.
    The only leader it was implied she manipulated was russia and they abstained and the russian ambassador was upset meaning emma proably had something on her but didn't mentally make her do anything . Are we suppose to believe tchala has never threatened anyone with information for the betterment of Wakanda? I am not surprised but what happens if the countries they are protecting are offered mutant protection and then decide to take the deal. The issue makes it clear negotiations are still ongoing with nations. Then Wakanda stands alone. Wakanda isn't protecting Kenya and them for nothing, they are getting something out of it which means they have something to lose.
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  2. #5582
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    The only leader it was implied she manipulated was russia and they abstained and the russian ambassador was upset meaning emma proably had something on her but didn't mentally make her do anything . Are we suppose to believe tchala has never threatened anyone with information for the betterment of Wakanda? I am not surprised but what happens if the countries they are protecting are offered mutant protection and then decide to take the deal. The issue makes it clear negotiations are still ongoing with nations. Then Wakanda stands alone. Wakanda isn't protecting Kenya and them for nothing, they are getting something out of it which means they have something to lose.
    Xavier mentioned that he thought the security council wouldnt be on board:




    Emma was working her mental magic to sway countries to the krakoan side.
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  3. #5583
    Astonishing Member stormphoenix's Avatar
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    OOOH look at her.

    SHE IS MAD!!!!
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  4. #5584
    Astonishing Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    Xavier mentioned that he thought the security council wouldnt be on board:




    Emma was working her mental magic to sway countries to the krakoan side.
    But if Emma is controlling her why is there no indication, and why would she look so pissed if she was being mind controlled to not say anything. Wouldn't she look blank or any other way put pissed and like she wants to snap emma's neck. Emma proably read her mind, has some dirt on Russia and threatened her with it so she abstained. I'm sure tchalls operatives have gotten info on people for him to use time and time again. Nothing in that page says Emma took control of the Russian ambassador and made her do something. But no ambassador wants all their secrets revealed at a U.N meeting.
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  5. #5585
    Astonishing Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormphoenix View Post
    OOOH look at her.

    SHE IS MAD!!!!
    Exactly. Why would she be so angry if she was being controlled and not blackmailed into keeping her mouth shut. She thinking about a million ways to kill Emma. lol Also why would the French Ambassador give Xavier the heads up if more people needed to be mind controlled. If one permanent member disagreed it would have all fallen apart. The only nation we know of that was going to vote no is Russia they abstained instead. And Xavier told her this AFTER it was already done so she could have just had her say yes, the french would have known something was up but Emma didn't know that at the time. So it looks more likely it was blackmail.
    Last edited by jwatson; 09-20-2019 at 03:59 PM.
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  6. #5586
    Astonishing Member stormphoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Exactly. Why would she be so angry if she was being controlled and not blackmailed into keeping her mouth shut. She thinking about a million ways to kill Emma. lol Also why would the French Ambassador give Xavier the heads up if more people needed to be mind controlled. If one permanent member disagreed it would have all fallen apart. The only nation we know of that was going to vote no is Russia they abstained instead. And Xavier told her this AFTER it was already done so she could have just had her say yes, the french would have known something was up but Emma didn't know that at the time. So it looks more likely it was blackmail.
    All I know is...that Lady is MAD AS HELL.

    Look at her she is staring a BIG Hole into Emma or Charles whichever one. That Woman is MAD
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  7. #5587
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    But if Emma is controlling her why is there no indication, and why would she look so pissed if she was being mind controlled to not say anything. Wouldn't she look blank or any other way put pissed and like she wants to snap emma's neck. Emma proably read her mind, has some dirt on Russia and threatened her with it so she abstained. I'm sure tchalls operatives have gotten info on people for him to use time and time again. Nothing in that page says Emma took control of the Russian ambassador and made her do something. But no ambassador wants all their secrets revealed at a U.N meeting.
    I think it's one of those things where you have to read between the lines. Xavier tells her he thought the UN SC was not going to go with recognizing Krakoa and Emma confirms they were not. I'm most certain they didnt change their minds due to her impeccable taste in style.

    By the way there are 15 countries on the security council:

    Five permanent members: China, France, Russian Federation, the United Kingdom,and the United States, and ten non-permanent members elected for two-year terms by the General Assembly (with end of term year):

    Belgium (2020)Côte d’Ivoire (2019)Dominican Republic (2020)Equatorial Guinea (2019)Germany (2020)Indonesia (2020)Kuwait (2019)Peru (2019)Poland (2019)South Africa (2020)

    Since these countries went it would make sense the other nations would follow. So seeing that these nations were not on board, why is it shocking that Wakanda wouldnt be?
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  8. #5588
    Astonishing Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    I think it's one of those things where you have to read between the lines. Xavier tells her he thought the UN SC was not going to go with recognizing Krakoa and Emma confirms they were not. I'm most certain they didnt change their minds due to her impeccable taste in style.

    By the way there are 15 countries on the security council:

    Five permanent members: China, France, Russian Federation, the United Kingdom,and the United States, and ten non-permanent members elected for two-year terms by the General Assembly (with end of term year):

    Belgium (2020)Côte d’Ivoire (2019)Dominican Republic (2020)Equatorial Guinea (2019)Germany (2020)Indonesia (2020)Kuwait (2019)Peru (2019)Poland (2019)South Africa (2020)

    Since these countries went it would make sense the other nations would follow. So seeing that these nations were not on board, why is it shocking that Wakanda wouldnt be?
    Then why is the woman mad? What's the point of that scene. Why isn't she screaming for all to hear she was mind controlled if she really doesn't want it to happen. It makes a lot more sense Emma has something on her to keep her quiet than mind controlling her and then just letting her sit there mad? What assurance did she have she wasn't going to speak up? IF she was suddenly killed there it would have been game over for the mutants.
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  9. #5589
    Astonishing Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Also you still need the resource to make something. Wakanda's primary resource is vibranium. The mutants primary resource is karoka seeds. One is finite and the other is not as far as we know, karoka can keep growing and as new buds bloom potentially new drugs can be made. What resource does Tchalla use that we are suppose to believe the likes of Val and Reed and no one else in the marvel universe can recreate what they offer in wakanda. Short of stealing a chunk of karoka and it's sentient so that may be hard, mutant drugs can't be reproduced by other countries. Leads me to believe it's military assistance that they are primarily offering.
    Vibranium isn't there primary resource, its just their most valuable. They didn't really start experimenting with Vb until Tchallas' mother came along. But they still were ahead of the rest of the world. Tchaka once told a group of businessmen who wanted to buy, Vb that most of the stuff WK has those nations could make themselves, but greed gets in the way of progress.

    Its just the past decade or so we've had unimaginative writers who think Vb is the be all end all of Wakanda.

    So if todays' real world is close to cures or vaccines add 25-50 years of progress without corporate interference and there is where WK is.

    The list says economic protectorate so I imagine they're providing low interest loans to build up their neighbors so they'd be less likely to be taken over by Hydra or A.I.M...., to prevent future incursions. While possibly helping if they are attacked by outside forces. I don't imagine they'd get involved in internal conflicts beyond diplomacy.

  10. #5590
    Astonishing Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    I think it's one of those things where you have to read between the lines. Xavier tells her he thought the UN SC was not going to go with recognizing Krakoa and Emma confirms they were not. I'm most certain they didnt change their minds due to her impeccable taste in style.

    By the way there are 15 countries on the security council:

    Five permanent members: China, France, Russian Federation, the United Kingdom,and the United States, and ten non-permanent members elected for two-year terms by the General Assembly (with end of term year):

    Belgium (2020)Côte d’Ivoire (2019)Dominican Republic (2020)Equatorial Guinea (2019)Germany (2020)Indonesia (2020)Kuwait (2019)Peru (2019)Poland (2019)South Africa (2020)

    Since these countries went it would make sense the other nations would follow. So seeing that these nations were not on board, why is it shocking that Wakanda wouldnt be?
    Also none of the nations you listed are on the list of countries that didn't take the deal. ONly wakanda is, Russia abstained. The rest aren't even mentioned anywhere so i'm not sure where you are gettiing your list. Four of the five permanent members went for it, ONLY Russia was forced to abstain. Russia did also not take the trade deal. So the ambassador had some level of self control to abstain on letting the UN take the measure but then say they want no part in the trade pact.

    politicalaffiliation.jpg
    Last edited by jwatson; 09-20-2019 at 04:26 PM.
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  11. #5591
    Astonishing Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    Vibranium isn't there primary resource, its just their most valuable. They didn't really start experimenting with Vb until Tchallas' mother came along. But they still were ahead of the rest of the world. Tchaka once told a group of businessmen who wanted to buy, Vb that most of the stuff WK has those nations could make themselves, but greed gets in the way of progress.

    Its just the past decade or so we've had unimaginative writers who think Vb is the be all end all of Wakanda.

    So if todays' real world is close to cures or vaccines add 25-50 years of progress without corporate interference and there is where WK is.

    The list says economic protectorate so I imagine they're providing low interest loans to build up their neighbors so they'd be less likely to be taken over by Hydra or A.I.M...., to prevent future incursions. While possibly helping if they are attacked by outside forces. I don't imagine they'd get involved in internal conflicts beyond diplomacy.
    Thanks for the info. I have only really read BP for maybe the last 7 years off on so its good info to have. And that falls in line with what i was thinking. It's probably mainly military support and Karoka was not offering that.
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  12. #5592
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Then why is the woman mad? What's the point of that scene. Why isn't she screaming for all to hear she was mind controlled if she really doesn't want it to happen. It makes a lot more sense Emma has something on her to keep her quiet than mind controlling her and then just letting her sit there mad? What assurance did she have she wasn't going to speak up? IF she was suddenly killed there it would have been game over for the mutants.
    I'm not sure what reason the woman has to be mad at her other than being upset the security council went the opposite way of what she expected would happen. I dont think Emma communicated she had dirt or anything as that I dint think would be relevant to the overall story.

    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Also none of the nations you listed are on the list of countries that didn't take the deal. ONly wakanda is, Russia abstained. The rest aren't even mentioned anywhere so i'm not sure where you are gettiing your list. Four of the five permanent members went for it, ONLY Russia was forced to abstain. Russia did also not take the trade deal. So the ambassador had some level of self control to abstain on letting the UN take the measure but then say they want no part in the trade pact.

    politicalaffiliation.jpg
    But none of the Security Council would be there. The Security Council changed their minds remember? Charles said they weren't not going to side with them and Emma confirmed that he was right. He then even alluded to her doing something and after her sassy response he thanked her for her sacrifice. The implications are there she put mental suggestions in the representatives on the SC to vote to recognize Krakoa.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  13. #5593
    Astonishing Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    I'm not sure what reason the woman has to be mad at her other than being upset the security council went the opposite way of what she expected would happen. I dont think Emma communicated she had dirt or anything as that I dint think would be relevant to the overall story.



    But none of the Security Council would be there. The Security Council changed their minds remember? Charles said they weren't not going to side with them and Emma confirmed that he was right. He then even alluded to her doing something and after her sassy response he thanked her for her sacrifice. The implications are there she put mental suggestions in the representatives on the SC to vote to recognize Krakoa.
    If the security council was going to ALL change their minds. Why did the french president only give the heads up on Russia. It sounds like Russia was the only problem. No one else was mentioned. Why would the French ambassador even have a conversation with charles and tell the worlds most powerful telepath about Russia if he was against it. For two reasons imo. To see if Charles would manipulate the Russians to say yes (they didn't, they abstained and then voted no on the trade) or because he wanted to help the mutants. We will just have to agree to disagree on this one though. It doesn't change anything else for me, Wakanda didn't know either way and they never follow behind other people so they made the choice on their own. He said permanent members and only mentioned Russia as only ONE needed to say no for them to fail.
    Last edited by jwatson; 09-20-2019 at 05:20 PM.
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  14. #5594
    Spectacular Member GuiltyPleasure's Avatar
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    Another way of looking at this is, there seems to be three responses from countries who didn't drink the Kool-Aid: 1) Political differences, 2) Ideological differences, 3) don't need drugs. So, Wakanda could've opted-out for ideological or political reasons, but they didn't. Saying no to drugs (ha, no pun intended) is actually the nicest way of bowing out. A greater potential conflict, IMO, would be the countries who opted-out for the first two reasons.

  15. #5595
    Astonishing Member stormphoenix's Avatar
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    What does that mean Political Reason or Ideological Reason???

    Are these countries trying to say that Mutants having their own country is not ethical or something??? I do enjoy Politics, but i'm not that knowledgeable about it. So hopefully someone can explain......
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