Ororo Munroe: Storm Appreciation 2019

[butterflykyss]

I forgot about this scan. Still it would be lovely to see Marvel give their repaired relationship even half the push that they gave it back when it first premiered.

well it's funny. even when they were married it was seldom that the xoffices really put emphasis on them being together. when Ororo beemgged Emma to join the xmen( simply repulsive) she told ororo the married life was boring this isnt really atypical behavior of the xoffices.

[terrancejameson]

It's not cynical or conspiratorial its true to form for how media(TV, Film, Comic books, literature) operates in western countries. Part of the problem is that you want a smoking gun where a writer is overtly racist, sexist etc. It doesn't just work like that. Implicit bias is always at work. It is the invisible racist, sexist, homophobic practices which maintains white supremacy and normative logics. Implicit Bias dictates how the writers ( mostly white, mostly male) make stories, who they make as characters, the voice of the characters, how the characters react to things, the lack of Black characters, and the killing of Black male and other men of color characters for no reason.

Why is it that no one has ever said to the fans that ship Jott, that they only want Cyclops and Jean Grey together because they are white. This never happens to white couples in any fandom at anytime. However, anytime people suggest two black characters or in the case of Moonstar and Warpath, two indigenous characters, the very act of them being together in a romantic relationship is pandering. How can it be that only white people can love each other with out it being an issue of pandering?

I don’t think I could’ve said it any better myself. I just have to say that Storm isn’t shown to be with a black man in the X-men. She’s not. She doesn’t have to be. It doesn’t matter to show it, because it already isn’t happening. There’s two options. One would be to ignore it, play like it isn’t there. Continue the same formula of ignoring black males altogether and their relation to Storm in the X-men. The second option would be to address it and do something about it.

Implicit Bias dictates how the writers ( mostly white, mostly male) make stories, who they make as characters, the voice of the characters, how the characters react to things, the lack of Black characters, and the killing of Black male and other men of color characters for no reason.

So...just to be clear, (because that's a very blanket statement...you (and others) are accusing ALL X-Men writers from Stan Lee/Kirby to Hickman of the above. Okies.
Then, I have to ask, why do you (and others) continue to read/support the X-Men?
Because if I strongly suspected/believed that that's exactly what goes on 'behind the scenes' then I sure as bloody hell won't be spending my hard-earned money on their products.

That’s a great question. I know of a few black males that stopped reading. I know of a few that a still currently reading. All of whom will acknowledge that they’re still attracted to the message of inclusion even if it really isn’t being used in practice. You realize that there’s a thread specifically dedicated to black males needing more exposure? Even with clear proof that black male mutants need more representation, the people willing to call it what it is still find other characters that aren’t necessarily black male mutants to latch on to. Storm is one of those characters. She attracts a lot of gay male followers, but gay black males flock to her in droves. She is our form of representation. At least she is for me. What she represents as an X-men member matters more imo. I purchase the comics that I feel utilizes her and/or her power interestingly and competently. The others I leave where they are.

One last point and then I’m going to move on from the subject because it appears that you’ve already closed yourself off. I think you should re-read your option #3 “Just not interested in telling those stories”. Not only does that quite clearly align with Paleo_Rage’s sentiment “Implicit Bias dictates how the writers ( mostly white, mostly male) make stories, who they make as characters, the voice of the characters, how the characters react to things, the lack of Black characters, and the killing of Black male and other men of color characters for no reason.”. The implicit bias that has left black males on the lowest rungs of mutant society has been an overarching message for many years. At which point of never addressing the issue is it wise to deduce that the issue will never be properly addressed?

[butterflykyss]

I don’t think I could’ve said it any better myself. I just have to say that Storm isn’t shown to be with a black man in the X-men. She’s not. She doesn’t have to be. It doesn’t matter to show it, because it already isn’t happening. There’s two options. One would be to ignore it, play like it isn’t there. Continue the same formula of ignoring black males altogether and their relation to Storm in the X-men. The second option would be to address it and do something about it.

That’s a great question. I know of a few black males that stopped reading. I know of a few that a still currently reading. All of whom will acknowledge that they’re still attracted to the message of inclusion even if it really isn’t being used in practice. You realize that there’s a thread specifically dedicated to black males needing more exposure? Even with clear proof that black male mutants need more representation, the people willing to call it what it is still find other characters that aren’t necessarily black male mutants to latch on to. Storm is one of those characters. She attracts a lot of gay male followers, but gay black males flock to her in droves. She is our form of representation. At least she is for me. What she represents as an X-men member matters more imo. I purchase the comics that I feel utilizes her and/or her power interestingly and competently. The others I leave where they are.

One last point and then I’m going to move on from the subject because it appears that you’ve already closed yourself off. I think you should re-read your option #3 “Just not interested in telling those stories”. Not only does that quite clearly align with Paleo_Rage’s sentiment “Implicit Bias dictates how the writers ( mostly white, mostly male) make stories, who they make as characters, the voice of the characters, how the characters react to things, the lack of Black characters, and the killing of Black male and other men of color characters for no reason.”. The implicit bias that has left black males on the lowest rungs of mutant society has been an overarching message for many years. At which point of never addressing the issue is it wise to deduce that the issue will never be properly addressed?

It's not cynical or conspiratorial its true to form for how media(TV, Film, Comic books, literature) operates in western countries. Part of the problem is that you want a smoking gun where a writer is overtly racist, sexist etc. It doesn't just work like that. Implicit bias is always at work. It is the invisible racist, sexist, homophobic practices which maintains white supremacy and normative logics. Implicit Bias dictates how the writers ( mostly white, mostly male) make stories, who they make as characters, the voice of the characters, how the characters react to things, the lack of Black characters, and the killing of Black male and other men of color characters for no reason.

Why is it that no one has ever said to the fans that ship Jott, that they only want Cyclops and Jean Grey together because they are white. This never happens to white couples in any fandom at anytime. However, anytime people suggest two black characters or in the case of Moonstar and Warpath, two indigenous characters, the very act of them being together in a romantic relationship is pandering. How can it be that only white people can love each other with out it being an issue of pandering?

thank you both for your thoughtful analysis on this topic. the solution to what plagues storm and ultimately the xmen is the lack of diversity on the creative side. once this changes I expect we will see better representation and characterizations of Ororo, as well black mutants in general. unfortunately, Hickman seems to be taking things back to the basics so I dont see this happening anytime soon.

[Golden Guardian of Good]

‪Thiiiiis is also why a lot of BP fans see Storm fans as bandwagon opportunists though tbh. If they are going to be together then I would rather it be because hey actually work well in stories together and have a well-written connection. I’d rather not have Storm become a trophy piece in the BP menagerie simply because of his popularity, if it won’t actually benefit her as a character. Just give me good, emotionally mature writing God-damnit. ‬

lol. Who said anything about "trophy piece." Either way much better than her being a booty call to Wolverine. As for good writing have you not read Coates writing of them? As for the bolded most Black Panther fans outside of this forum don't really care and never minded them together until Avengers vs X-men.

Fact is Storm and Black Panther are the biggest Black characters in Marvel and are associated with Marvel's Black couple to laymen and it is almost certain that Storm will appear in the next Black Panther film. Black Panther and Storm only build off each other. Who do YOU want Storm to be with? Who do you think can build Storm and develop her character. Storm got a huge character development in Coates' Black Panther didn't see the same for her in the X-books. Wolverine? Nothing has changed.

[Golden Guardian of Good]

I get the more popular characters are can reach to a wider audience but I also don’t think it matters much. I don’t see why it has to be BP and Storms job to represent black love.

Because it has to. Many lay people including people like Coogler associate them with Black love in Marvel. That's a fact. Also name me male character who can realistically build Storm? Name me a female character who can realistically build Black Panther?

Bringing up Blue Marvel and Monica is useless. Monica hasn't been popular since the 80s and hardly anyone knows about her. She is only now slowly returning to people's attention in comics. Blue Marvel? Blue Marvel at best is an E-lister and hasn't been seen since the Ultimates. Hell, we don't even know if Monica/Adam's relationship is even going to last long.

[Havok83]

On a side note, where the hell did Storm go to get her hair braided? Jean Grey did a better job half way across the world with her TK

the panel where rogue ask are they back together even if it's a secret and ororo says it's not secret isnt confirmation? why not?




yes the xoffices are not as explicit. they did something similar in hunt for wolverine when ororo looked longingly at a panther trinket and referred to "family." In shuri she was warping the weather due to sadness because her "love" was in soace:

Agreed. They dont need to hit us over the head with it. Its clear enough where they stand. Them needing to declare tha they are official boyfriend/girlfriend seems so archaic especially since they were married. They are currently a couple; thats not ambiguous

[Triniking1234]

I swear Shuri released when the Red costume was mainstream.

[Ororo101]

lol. Who said anything about "trophy piece." Either way much better than her being a booty call to Wolverine. As for good writing have you not read Coates writing of them? As for the bolded most Black Panther fans outside of this forum don't really care and never minded them together until Avengers vs X-men.

Fact is Storm and Black Panther are the biggest Black characters in Marvel and are associated with Marvel's Black couple to laymen and it is almost certain that Storm will appear in the next Black Panther film. Black Panther and Storm only build off each other. Who do YOU want Storm to be with? Who do you think can build Storm and develop her character. Storm got a huge character development in Coates' Black Panther didn't see the same for her in the X-books. Wolverine? Nothing has changed.

The fact that some of y’all can’t functionally view Ororo and HER actions outside of the confines of what man they can be attributed to and which man she can get the biggest boost from being tied to romantically is... lol quite sad to say the least.

[Ororo101]

On a side note, where the hell did Storm go to get her hair braided? Jean Grey did a better job half way across the world with her TK



Agreed. They dont need to hit us over the head with it. Its clear enough where they stand. Them needing to declare tha they are official boyfriend/girlfriend seems so archaic especially since they were married. They are currently a couple; thats not ambiguous

Exactly. Ororo and T’challa are like the Bey and Jay of the 616. Everybody in the world knows who they are and their public profile could not be any bigger on the international stage, but they are both individually very private people. I don’t see either of them shopping around interviews, being seen out in casual places despite public attention, or being quoted anywhere publicly discussing their relationship. They’re honestly above all of that drama/notoriety so I can see many people, even close friends and family having to directly ask about their relationship if they had any questions about it.

[Havok83]

I swear Shuri released when the Red costume was mainstream.

It got dirty. She had several copies of the Gold suit still in Wakanda

[loke13]

Exactly. Ororo and T’challa are like the Bey and Jay of the 616. Everybody in the world knows who they are and their public profile could not be any bigger on the international stage, but they are both individually very private people. I don’t see either of them shopping around interviews, being seen out in casual places despite public attention, or being quoted anywhere publicly discussing their relationship. They’re honestly above all of that drama/notoriety so I can see many people, even close friends and family having to directly ask about their relationship if they had any questions about it.

Beyonce shops at Target

[Golden Guardian of Good]

Exactly. Ororo and T’challa are like the Bey and Jay of the 616. Everybody in the world knows who they are and their public profile could not be any bigger on the international stage, but they are both individually very private people. I don’t see either of them shopping around interviews, being seen out in casual places despite public attention, or being quoted anywhere publicly discussing their relationship. They’re honestly above all of that drama/notoriety so I can see many people, even close friends and family having to directly ask about their relationship if they had any questions about it.

That's an even bigger reason why they should be together especially when pinned under a good writer that writes there relationship how its suppose to be written. Instead of like Hudlin or the past X-writers.

[Golden Guardian of Good]

The fact that some of y’all can’t functionally view Ororo and HER actions outside of the confines of what man they can be attributed to and which man she can get the biggest boost from being tied to romantically is... lol quite sad to say the least.

Not sure what you are even getting at? There is nothing wrong or "sad" about building off of a character especially when the two characters have a realistic history with one another. More importantly I said Storm builds Black Panther WHICH SHE HAS! So again not sure what you're getting at?

[LordAllMIghty]

I need to quit work. it took all my willpower not to chime in today lol

Sometimes, i sneak and read the thread at work. Then get mad cause I can't reply....lol

So, what you think your Too Cool for School!!!

Come here Boy so I can beat box that A%#. Get yo butt in school.

Mama is that you?!? lol

[Ororo101]

I'm actually excited Ororo will be featured in X-Men 1. I wonder if we will get a heart-to-heart between her and Scott. Then again, Hickman might use this book as a more action oriented story.



@the bold. Yeah, that scene between T'Challa and Nakia did not seem final to me, at all. There's something more, but we won't truly know until next issue or later--assuming Nakia doesn't get killed off. Also, I think Coates is emphasizing there being a shift within T'Challa. He's experiences in space has made him a different person, and we might see that going forward. Or maybe not.

Also, the sex didn't bother me. They are two grown people who smashed, so who gives a flying flip. But I do feel there is something missing--or should I say--off about their whole reunion--T'Challa came across as somewhat distant and reserve...maybe I needed to reread again. But you're right, T'Challa is being pulled between two worlds.

This is very similar to how I felt about the situation. I like them together, Coates has written some great stuff with them as a couple and I’m still on board to see more but this interaction for all of its build up just seemed... off. Stoic. Tame. Restricted. If it really is a “primal embrace where words aren’t good enough” then show that. Show them look at each other, pause, and then crash together. Even with no words you would’ve understood the passion, the tension, the desperate need to be close after being so far apart for so long. It’s been FIVE YEARS for him. Instead we got “hehe not your sis so let’s- cut to Ororo sleeping as T’challa thinks about other things. You guys gotta see how anti-climatic/ not romantically fulfilling that is right? I get he’s a stoic guy but Jesus, have some life and passion to you when you see your love for the first time in literal years.

1. I think Coates decided to be as heavy with the Nakia/Tchalla thing because he is trying to create another internal conflict for Tchalla, as well as show that the 5 years he has spent in space has had a tremendous impact on him. I dont see it in anyway disregarding what he and Ororo had especially considering he never truly explored what they could have been because of the memories of Ororo that remained within his mind even after being mindwiped.

Also, I dont really see there first interaction being one that is loving and let me tell you how much I love you. I see them locking in an intense fashion and getting right to business:




Their feelings were primal and intense. They needed each other and I think that was just to show how intensely they desired one another.

3. To your last point, I will agree I cant stand Logan and ororo as a couple. I highly despise it but the way you characterize their interaction and my reasons for it is not a fair one. When Logan and Ororo got together sexually, it was to spite Tchalla. Ororo very much so took control of that situation but it was clear that for Logan she was something to do as Ororo's feelings became more attached. He even left her to pursue another woman though she didn't necessarily wont him to leave. The same is not true of her interactions with Tchalla. He has always with put her first before any other woman so to compare the two interactions as the same isnt a fair one. Also we must keep in mind these characters dont write themselves. I don't think it's a coincidence that the times she has been in relationships with black men in healthy interactions have been because of black writers. I also dont think it is a coincidence she was handled as she was by Aaron. presentation is the key and how they were presented was starkly different in regard to Logan and tchalla.

1. I feel you and understand what you’re saying, Kyss but it’s those very implications that worry me. I mean I know it may make for a more nuanced story but forgive me for not wanting T’challa to feel any conflict about his feelings for Ororo. The man just got done apologizing for his past shittery, owning his mistakes as a man, a husband, and a king, and saying how much he believes in her, in them, and in his ability to treat her like the woman, not “the queen” that she is. So much progress now for him to be conflicted? Over Space-Nakia??? Call me a downer but I’m really not feelin that. He has not room for conflict and Ororo should have 0 patience for any more of his Tom-foolery. He’s either in or out this time, time to be a man and commit to your love.

child my wig is officially snatched!!!! I had to stop what I was doing to log back in just to say that. you sir are a motherf#cking star!!!

and can I say where is she being shown as a sex symbol below?? I thought she was just a hit it ans quit it booty call?? baby please help me understand?




vs. this:

I don’t really see a valid comparison between these two relationships at all. Ororo and Logan are long term best friends, confidantes, partners, and occasionally over the years, lovers. Don’t forget your Lord Claremont himself had them romantically interested and dating during his Uncanny run in the early 2000’s. Their on-panel interactions amount to almost a lifetime of shared experiences together that have bonded them beyond any doubt or question forever. No matter if they disagree at times on things, they will always, ALWAYS be friends. That’s exactly what’s reflected in their relationship to me at least. Storm knows he’s not the love of her life. Logan knows she’s not his. But they do have a love for each other that has superseded a platonic nature at times when one or both of them needed a friend/companion to comfort them. Their time “together” was for the most part a super take on close-fiends-with benefits. Emphasis on close because despite their physicality, everything else about them stayed the same as it always was. They still had each other’s back no matter what, that’s always been he nature of their relationship. I don’t know if you’re familiar with how fwb relationships feel when you have that connection with someone you also deeply care about but it can make your bond to that person deeper in a beautiful “you’re a person I trust and can be vulnerable with who also gave me the gift of comfort and intimacy when I needed it most” kind of way, which is totally different from a “soulmates with destiny” kind of love that her and T’challa have. You say she got with Logan “to spite” T’challa because he had the audacity to request she not be close to Logan after discarding her like yesterday’s hot trash. No sir lol he can take several seats. The only reason he was insecure enough to ask that of her was because he already knew how close they were before and was shaking at what their closeness would develop. So what you see as spite, I see as her rightfully ignoring what her self-imposed EX husband told her not to do, and doing what she wanted to anyway. What brought her comfort and intimacy from a close, trusted friend after having her heart stepped on by the man she truly loves. That makes perfect sense to me and I don’t she why she is being slut-shamed for it by so many people(not you specifically Kyss, but by others). That always pissed me off because that was her choice, not the product or cause of something to do with a man. It’s what she wanted/needed at the time for herself. Period.

Her and T’challa are destiny though. Literally brought together in their youth by chance(fate) and having a bond from that first nascent taste of love that will hopefully last forever. They are soulmates. They are true love that can be knocked down and destroyed and tarnished and tainted and still, still will find their way back to each other in the end because they are two parts of the same heart. They have both done things THAT hurt each other but not TO hurt each other. And they forgive and find love together again, because it is inevitable. They are inevitable. The Watcher didn’t attend their wedding for shits and giggles lol. T’challa and Ororo are a unit. The foundation of a dynasty of the most powerful and noble black Kings and Queens that this world has ever seen. A living bridge between humanity and mutantkind. A powerful symbol of the future and eternal love. So much more in many ways then her and Logan could ever be. So that’s why I don’t understand these comparisons? It’s liken to a pet and a child comparison to me. Your pet can be your best friend, companion, and friend when you need one. A pet provides unconditional love and affection when you may be depressed or grieving. Scientifically they are proven to release endorphins and being immense comfort to people. So much so that people choose to have pets in lieu of children because they can be loved so much it can seem akin. But a child is your life-force given form. A child is within you, in your bones. They are your legacy, your future, and your whole heart alive and running around outside your body. They love you and live alongside you for the majority of your life and are your stewards who ease and comfort you at the end of your life. A pet and a child both serve as important sources of love for some people and both are valid. But in the end, there is no comparison. That’s how I’ve always seen this T’challa vs Logan debate. Just doesn’t make any sense because they are both entirely different kinds of love.