Ororo Munroe: Storm Appreciation 2019

[jwatson]

I don't really care if Storm dates a white guy or a black guy. So far the only men Storm has had long term relationships with were men of color so obviously she is all for loving her kind. That said i don't think black people should be together just because they are black people and that they should be put on or put themselves on a pedestal as representation for what a "couple" should be. In fact personally that mentality in a lot of cases is why young black women end up getting dogged out by our own brothers and then treated as though something is wrong with them when they go outside their race and are able to find happiness. If your only looking in one place your only going to find one kind of thing. I'm all here for it and i love when i see powerful black couples together but it's not an expectation or a demand on my part. I also don't really get the obession with Beyonce and Jay Z but i'll stan the hell out of barrack and Michelle.

[Ororo101]

Not sure what you are even getting at? There is nothing wrong or "sad" about building off of a character especially when the two characters have a realistic history with one another. More importantly I said Storm builds Black Panther WHICH SHE HAS! So again not sure what you're getting at?

Honestly I just didn’t like how it came across in your statement that Storm can either be a glorified “booty call” for Wolverine or she can be positively “boosted” by T’challa. The insinuation that whoever we want Storm to” be with” would determine her worth/value depending on how much she could gain as a character by being associated or “built up” by them. If I misunderstood you then fine but otherwise F that noise. This isn’t the Bachelor and Ororo shouldn’t be placed with any man/partner for clout. That’s what happened the first time around because in large part they were two high profile characters of similar background so why not bring them together especially with their shared past? Then you get 5 years of poorly written drivel with terrible characterization of Ororo being subservient and T’challa being a prideful egotist who can stand being assisted by his wife. Building up is done through great story-telling not setting up two popular characters so they can conjoin their high profiles together without any foresight or planning. As we’ve seen that just leads to mess.

Secondly, and less directed at you, I’m so tired of Storm being viewed through the perspective of the men in her life. BP fans calling her loose and disrespectful for doing what she wanted as a grown ass woman with Logan. Inferring she was just a “booty call” and was hit and quit and disregarded. X-men fans saying that instead it was BP who used her as a “booty call” during the end of the world incursion in Secret Wars, claiming he didn’t even care enough about her to tell her the world was ending. Dictating her actions through the perspective of the men she CHOOSES to interact with. None of these tired, antiquated ass viewpoints lend anything positive to Ororo and instead only serve to take away her voice and agency as a WOMAN. She slept with Logan because he was a dear friend with former romantic relations who could give her the companionship and intimacy SHE craved at the time. She slept with T’challa when he came to her because despite her inevitable feelings of bitterness towards what he did, she still loved him and WANTED to be with him. It’s an insult to Storm and the strong, assertive, powerful woman of agency that she is to let this slut-shaming flooded with misogynistic undertones persist.

[Devaishwarya]

Brava Ororo101, Brava!
And this (the above perfect post) is why I am all for Ororo being the representation of Black Female Power and Independence...if she has to be representational of something...instead of Black Love. (not that she can't be representational of more than one thing, but...in the greater scheme of fiction, the former is far more important than the latter, I believe.)
Interestingly enough...I don't see that sort of relationship/representation pressure being placed on T'Challa by his fans and fans of the relationship.

[ShepardOakenshieldPrime]

Honestly I just didn’t like how it came across in your statement that Storm can either be a glorified “booty call” for Wolverine or she can be positively “boosted” by T’challa. The insinuation that whoever we want Storm to” be with” would determine her worth/value depending on how much she could gain as a character by being associated or “built up” by them. If I misunderstood you then fine but otherwise F that noise. This isn’t the Bachelor and Ororo shouldn’t be placed with any man/partner for clout. That’s what happened the first time around because in large part they were two high profile characters of similar background so why not bring them together especially with their shared past? Then you get 5 years of poorly written drivel with terrible characterization of Ororo being subservient and T’challa being a prideful egotist who can stand being assisted by his wife. Building up is done through great story-telling not setting up two popular characters so they can conjoin their high profiles together without any foresight or planning. As we’ve seen that just leads to mess.

Secondly, and less directed at you, I’m so tired of Storm being viewed through the perspective of the men in her life. BP fans calling her loose and disrespectful for doing what she wanted as a grown ass woman with Logan. Inferring she was just a “booty call” and was hit and quit and disregarded. X-men fans saying that instead it was BP who used her as a “booty call” during the end of the world incursion in Secret Wars, claiming he didn’t even care enough about her to tell her the world was ending. Dictating her actions through the perspective of the men she CHOOSES to interact with. None of these tired, antiquated ass viewpoints lend anything positive to Ororo and instead only serve to take away her voice and agency as a WOMAN. She slept with Logan because he was a dear friend with former romantic relations who could give her the companionship and intimacy SHE craved at the time. She slept with T’challa when he came to her because despite her inevitable feelings of bitterness towards what he did, she still loved him and WANTED to be with him. It’s an insult to Storm and the strong, assertive, powerful woman of agency that she is to let this slut-shaming flooded with misogynistic undertones persist.

Amen

10char

[phoenixzero23]

Some people just like two characters and their interactions. I love Ororo and T'challa as characters first and as a couple second (but a lot too)
I don't think they are better or worst for being single or with other people.
I think some are thinking about this too much to be honest.

[Jalysia]

Honestly I just didn’t like how it came across in your statement that Storm can either be a glorified “booty call” for Wolverine or she can be positively “boosted” by T’challa. The insinuation that whoever we want Storm to” be with” would determine her worth/value depending on how much she could gain as a character by being associated or “built up” by them. If I misunderstood you then fine but otherwise F that noise. This isn’t the Bachelor and Ororo shouldn’t be placed with any man/partner for clout. That’s what happened the first time around because in large part they were two high profile characters of similar background so why not bring them together especially with their shared past? Then you get 5 years of poorly written drivel with terrible characterization of Ororo being subservient and T’challa being a prideful egotist who can stand being assisted by his wife. Building up is done through great story-telling not setting up two popular characters so they can conjoin their high profiles together without any foresight or planning. As we’ve seen that just leads to mess.

Secondly, and less directed at you, I’m so tired of Storm being viewed through the perspective of the men in her life. BP fans calling her loose and disrespectful for doing what she wanted as a grown ass woman with Logan. Inferring she was just a “booty call” and was hit and quit and disregarded. X-men fans saying that instead it was BP who used her as a “booty call” during the end of the world incursion in Secret Wars, claiming he didn’t even care enough about her to tell her the world was ending. Dictating her actions through the perspective of the men she CHOOSES to interact with. None of these tired, antiquated ass viewpoints lend anything positive to Ororo and instead only serve to take away her voice and agency as a WOMAN. She slept with Logan because he was a dear friend with former romantic relations who could give her the companionship and intimacy SHE craved at the time. She slept with T’challa when he came to her because despite her inevitable feelings of bitterness towards what he did, she still loved him and WANTED to be with him. It’s an insult to Storm and the strong, assertive, powerful woman of agency that she is to let this slut-shaming flooded with misogynistic undertones persist.

If I was wearing a wig, it would be snatched. A-Freaking-Men. You don't know how much that irks me with that kid of screwed up logic. This character has been around for damn near 50 years. If she bangs T'Challa or Logan, who gives a ****? Black Women, fictional or not, are held to this weird standard. Defining Ororo by who she's letting inside her puss is just hella weird and stinks of mysogynoir. The world at large, which include our own community, stay on our necks, and I'm speaking as a 36 year old black woman.

[Ororo101]

If I was wearing a wig, it would be snatched. A-Freaking-Men. You don't know how much that irks me with that kid of screwed up logic. This character has been around for damn near 50 years. If she bangs T'Challa or Logan, who gives a ****? Black Women, fictional or not, are held to this weird standard. Defining Ororo by who she's letting inside her puss is just hella weird and stinks of mysogynoir. The world at large, which include our own community, stay on our necks, and I'm speaking as a 36 year old black woman.

Lol! Amen, Love. Please repeat “includes our own community” louder for the people in the back. It’s amazing how many black men are unaware of their own internalized aversive misogynoir.

[Golden Guardian of Good]

Lol! Amen, Love. Please repeat “includes our own community” louder for the people in the back. It’s amazing how many black men are unaware of their own internalized aversive misogynoir.

Yeah, I'm leaving this conversation and possibly this thread for good. It was a good convo in the beginning.

[terrancejameson]

Honey Baby, I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed reading the last few posts. I just love the way the conversation is going. Ororo is deserving of the recognition she's gotten her entire career without a man vouching for her. That has never been my point of contention. It's easy to reduce the argument to that level tho.

I will reiterate that Ororo should be more than capable of maintaining a steady narrative that highlights the attributes that make HER a hero while placing less emphasis on who she chooses as a mate. She doesn't need any man or woman to boost her. That doesn't change the fact that Storm is with T'Challa currently and she has received a boost by being in his book. Coates was not the first BP writer to give her a boost in power. The previous BP writers that gave her power over earthquakes and gave us the first hint that she was a potential omega level mutant (Priest & Hudlin respectively) both wrote her from the vantage point as a love interest for T'Challa. Even knowing that HER voice and HER character weren't always treated with the proper love and care that I would have liked, there's no denying that in the power department she received additions to her power that were not there previously. That's a fact. In that context she has been given a boost based solely off of the man she's dealing with. She does not have her own solo and she isn't given the Carol Danvers treatment.

Next I'd like to touch on a point that's rarely illuminated. I could be wrong, but to my knowledge Storm has recieved most of her defining storylines while she was in a leadership position over the team. It's an assumption, but I'm fairly certain that it's a safe bet to make. I'm not saying that it's of the upmost importance that she leads a team. I'm just noting that most of her significant and defining storylines come from a point in time where she was leading and imposing her views on the outside world. Again, I could be wrong and someone will undoubtedly correct me. She could and should have an interesting perspective whether or not she's leading a team, but has she? When was the last time has had a voice or the impact that was unique to her in the X-books? And I mean one that couldn't be given to another mutant and the story wouldn't change a bit? I'd be greatly appreciative to anyone that could enlighten me.

This leads into my next point and it bears repeating because it goes to illustrate outback era Storm sleeping with Wolverine sends a different message than the post AvX relationship. Both scenes can be played as a comrades who confide in one another and bang occasionally. When Storm woke up in Wolvie's bomber jacket that was as his superior. She was giving orders. She was writing the checks and she was cashing them. Figuratively speaking, that is. The later instance where she joins Wolverine after ditching Cyclops is one where she leaves as a second in command to join Wolverine as his second in command. From there is where she starts to climb the ranks again and impose her will on the mutant world at large. Her jump from second in command to leader of her own faction once more is preceded by a scene of great significance. Everyone is quick to mention how ridiculously demeaning it is for T'Challa to even suggest that he has a say in who Ororo decides to share HER body with. I absolutely agree. How dare any man! BUT, on the same token, can anyone provide for another instance where T'Challa reduces their relationship down to their sexual connections? Anyone? To my knowledge there isnt another instance like that one. He's much smarter, much more calculating and much more emotionally mature than the man that showed up in the X-books that day. In a place where black men aren't written often, we get an instance of one of the 7 smartest men in the MU reduces he and his ex wife their sexual appetites. A few post above it's even mentioned how many young black girls are almost shamed into loving the young black men that do everything under the sun to prove their sexual prowess by slinging dick to every young hot piece then expecting those same young black women to wait around because "she should be with a black man". Black males today have been taught to believe that their penis is their ultimate power and their main goal is to spread dick to as many women as possible. That's the psychology of the world we live in and its messages the media bombards us with. *s/o to Paleo_Rage*

I am forced to ask myself why was this scene allowed to fly? First, T'Challa was used in a way that he was never used during their marriage to pressure Storm into a position that he would never place her in. Only to bring about the justification or induce the need for Ororo to reclaim her sexuality. What does that really mean though? How was her sexuality stifled to begin with? Then ask yourself, given all the power at Storm's disposal, if all that's there for her to reclaim is her sexuality, then what exactly did she gain? What was there for her in the X-books before she saw fit to reclaim her sexuality and what's been left for her after she accomplished that goal? With all the decisions she's made to get back to herself in the X-books, where has that left her now? What has she gained? These are all serious questions.

[Ororo101]

Yeah, I'm leaving this conversation and possibly this thread for good. It was a good convo in the beginning.

Well, I’m sorry to hear that. As a black man who’s witnessed said issue many times personally, I stand by what I said. Sometimes we have to do better, especially by our own. It’s a shame because this really is something we should talk about and not sweep under the rug. But to each their own.

[terrancejameson]

Yeah, I'm leaving this conversation and possibly this thread for good. It was a good convo in the beginning.

I don't think you should leave. There are black women in this thread speaking directly to black men like you and I. It's best that you listen. While I agree with the overall message you attempted to convey, your delivery was way off and Ororo101 checked you for it. Storm is NOT the booty call of Wolverine no matter if the white male writer who wrote the scene intended from Wolverine to get player credentials for sleeping with Storm. Apply the lesson you learned and do better. Your POV is still valuable here.

[Ororo101]

Honey Baby, I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed reading the last few posts. I just love the way the conversation is going. Ororo is deserving of the recognition she's gotten her entire career without a man vouching for her. That has never been my point of contention. It's easy to reduce the argument to that level tho.

I will reiterate that Ororo should be more than capable of maintaining a steady narrative that highlights the attributes that make HER a hero while placing less emphasis on who she chooses as a mate. She doesn't need any man or woman to boost her. That doesn't change the fact that Storm is with T'Challa currently and she has received a boost by being in his book. Coates was not the first BP writer to give her a boost in power. The previous BP writers that gave her power over earthquakes and gave us the first hint that she was a potential omega level mutant (Priest & Hudlin respectively) both wrote her from the vantage point as a love interest for T'Challa. Even knowing that HER voice and HER character weren't always treated with the proper love and care that I would have liked, there's no denying that in the power department she received additions to her power that were not there previously. That's a fact. In that context she has been given a boost based solely off of the man she's dealing with. She does not have her own solo and she isn't given the Carol Danvers treatment.

Next I'd like to touch on a point that's rarely illuminated. I could be wrong, but to my knowledge Storm has recieved most of her defining storylines while she was in a leadership position over the team. It's an assumption, but I'm fairly certain that it's a safe bet to make. I'm not saying that it's of the upmost importance that she leads a team. I'm just noting that most of her significant and defining storylines come from a point in time where she was leading and imposing her views on the outside world. Again, I could be wrong and someone will undoubtedly correct me. She could and should have an interesting perspective whether or not she's leading a team, but has she? When was the last time has had a voice or the impact that was unique to her in the X-books? And I mean one that couldn't be given to another mutant and the story wouldn't change a bit? I'd be greatly appreciative to anyone that could enlighten me.

This leads into my next point and it bears repeating because it goes to illustrate outback era Storm sleeping with Wolverine sends a different message than the post AvX relationship. Both scenes can be played as a comrades who confide in one another and bang occasionally. When Storm woke up in Wolvie's bomber jacket that was as his superior. She was giving orders. She was writing the checks and she was cashing them. Figuratively speaking, that is. The later instance where she joins Wolverine after ditching Cyclops is one where she leaves as a second in command to join Wolverine as his second in command. From there is where she starts to climb the ranks again and impose her will on the mutant world at large. Her jump from second in command to leader of her own faction once more is preceded by a scene of great significance. Everyone is quick to mention how ridiculously demeaning it is for T'Challa to even suggest that he has a say in who Ororo decides to share HER body with. I absolutely agree. How dare any man! BUT, on the same token, can anyone provide for another instance where T'Challa reduces their relationship down to their sexual connections? Anyone? To my knowledge there isnt another instance like that one. He's much smarter, much more calculating and much more emotionally mature than the man that showed up in the X-books that day. In a place where black men aren't written often, we get an instance of one of the 7 smartest men in the MU reduces he and his ex wife their sexual appetites. A few post above it's even mentioned how many young black girls are almost shamed into loving the young black men that do everything under the sun to prove their sexual prowess by slinging dick to every young hot piece then expecting those same young black women to wait around because "she should be with a black man". Black males today have been taught to believe that their penis is their ultimate power and their main goal is to spread dick to as many women as possible. That's the psychology of the world we live in and its messages the media bombards us with. *s/o to Paleo_Rage*

I am forced to ask myself why was this scene allowed to fly? First, T'Challa was used in a way that he was never used during their marriage to pressure Storm into a position that he would never place her in. Only to bring about the justification or induce the need for Ororo to reclaim her sexuality. What does that really mean though? How was her sexuality stifled to begin with? Then ask yourself, given all the power at Storm's disposal, if all that's there for her to reclaim is her sexuality, then what exactly did she gain? What was there for her in the X-books before she saw fit to reclaim her sexuality and what's been left for her after she accomplished that goal? With all the decisions she's made to get back to herself in the X-books, where has that left her now? What has she gained? These are all serious questions.

Hey TJ, please don’t mistake my post for any accusation against you for reducing your points of contention to her “needing” a man. It simply bothered me how continuously throughout these last few years, when it comes down to Logan or T’challa and whoever thinks she “deserves” one or the other, it’s boiled down to a lot of shade that inadvertently gets thrown at Ororo. Because people don’t like her relationship with one or the other, they take the situation and twist it to make her character out to be some victim of sexual exploitation or “being used” or “sleeping her way to the top” or “not respecting herself”. Honestly that happens way too often in real life with women in general but ESPECIALLY black women by men of all races. And I mean all. There’s a reason so many of my black, male friends and colleagues view black women as sexy, thicc, but “loud” and “high maintenance” while viewing being in a relationship with a “beautiful” white or light-skinned girl as “wifey” material or an elevation of some sort. These residual mentalities so deeply engrained in society from people we used to call Master, and the worst part is most of us don’t know/or acknowledge it for what it is. Colorism exists in every culture it’s true but it makes me especially sad and disheartened to see it displayed in young, black men and women. Everyone else already views us that way, that’s to be expected as shitty as it sounds. We just gotta do better for ourselves is all I mean. Seeing and appreciating our own value and self worth as beautiful brown people. Part of that is not falling into the same pitfalls set by older patriarchal societies of shaming black women for embracing, exploring, and being free with their sexuality and sexual agency/identity. We don’t need to refer to her as a “booty call” “slam piece” or whatever other messy nicknames people have for women who own their sexuality as fiercely and proudly as men do.

[fsger]

It’s amazing how many black men are unaware of their own internalized aversive misogynoir.

Freaking thank you for acknowledging it. Many act like that doesn't happen but it does

[ShepardOakenshieldPrime]

Can't wait to see this, I love when she utilises her powers on grand scales.

Attachment 86401

[Havok83]

Its always a delight to see her summoning a tornado and not reduce to Lightning Lass