Ororo Munroe: Storm Appreciation 2019

[Havok83]

I loved Lobdell. He was great for the franchise in the 90s

[powerpax]

As I said, it's JMO. The treatment of the books after '91 drove me away for a long time. I'd pick up stuff here and there were some decent stories or runs on other books but I felt the X-Men were largely terrible for the rest of the decade.

[Stormrocks]

Hmm, I don't know if I agree with your assessment. Off the bat, I admit I will ALWAYS appreciate Scott Lobdell because he created Generation X. That's probably the most favorite thing he did. I also enjoyed the Legion-Quest and the Age of Apocalypse which was his brainchildren too.

That said, his time on the book ran from Uncanny X-Men #286-350. We had some pretty iconic story lines during his reign. Most were these massive X-book crossovers.

1992’s “X-Cutioner’s Song” (Stryfe attacks Xavier, cripples Apocalypse, kidnaps Cyclops and Jean Grey and claims they’re his parents)
1993’s “Fatal Attractions” (Magneto founds Avalon, convinces Colossus to join the Acolytes during his sister’s funeral)
1994’s “Phalanx Covenant” (introduces Generation X)
1995’s “Age of Apocalypse” (creates an alternate reality ruled by En Sabah Nur)
1996’s “Onslaught” (shunts the Avengers and Fantastic Four into a pocket universe)
1997’s “Operation: Zero Tolerance” (human-sentinel hybrids imprison mutants)

We got some great Storm-centric stories during the crossovers:

- The creation of Gene Nation culminating in Uncanny X-Men 325 where Storm beat the breaks off of Marrow and ripped her heart out. I know a lot of people didn't like that issue because they thought Marrow was a kid, but Storm did what needed to be done and I still re-read that issue to this day.
- Phalanx Covenant story line has issues with Storm, Gambit and Yukio going up against the techo-organic villain are also really good.
- I enjoyed AOA Storm and her relationship with that Quicksilver.

I am not sure he really set Storm back. I would say Jim Lee hurt her more. She wasn't on the "cool" blue team when he split the X-Men into two teams.

[butterflykyss]

Scott Lobdell was one of the worst and most ruinous writers the X-franchise has ever had IMO and that's all I'll say about it, bc the last time I spoke on him I got banned for a week lol. He (and an overextended Fabian Nicieza, who had no place on the main books) deconstructed virtually every character Claremont worked on and made them merch-friendly two-dimensional shells of themselves. Suited for the X-Men obsessed 90s, but what they gained in market value they lost in creativity and competent writing for almost a decade.

ha! last year sometime I decided to read all the uncanny xmen issues from beginning to end. I started with stan Lee O5, which read how books of that time were written, then when Claremont came along it was soooooo good. it was so hard at times to even put the book down, and then 90s book came along and it seriously became so hard to read. I had heard there was some type of mandate to reset the characters but never understood why. I would agree with your description though. the stories were very hard to read.

as a storm fan it felt like there was big push to drastically reduce the power and strength of the character. when he wrote her not being immune to weather and saying she wasnt as blessed as Jean to have tk I nearly loss my lunch. a lot of that, as you said, at the tone for how she would be written for years to follow and not in a good way.

I detailed some of it above. I thought he presided over what was at that time the most mediocre to bad, editorially-driven run in the history of the franchise (obviously we've seen worse since) and I think its effects led to serious character downgrades and poor choices for years to come. They were selling toys and cartoons and foil covers for the speculator market but the books were largely awful AFAIC. It started with Storm, Psylocke, Jean, etc. and worked its way down. Everyone become a cutout standee for an action figure, via a company that was putting everything into X-Men quantity-wise but not quality, while letting the rest of the Marvel Universe wither on the vine and then eventually going bankrupt. But that's JMO.

no I would agree here. the quality of the books definitely went down.

[Havok83]

Hmm, I don't know if I agree with your assessment. Off the bat, I admit I will ALWAYS appreciate Scott Lobdell because he created Generation X. That's probably the most favorite thing he did. I also enjoyed the Legion-Quest and the Age of Apocalypse which was his brainchildren too.

That said, his time on the book ran from Uncanny X-Men #286-350. We had some pretty iconic story lines during his reign. Most were these massive X-book crossovers.

1992’s “X-Cutioner’s Song” (Stryfe attacks Xavier, cripples Apocalypse, kidnaps Cyclops and Jean Grey and claims they’re his parents)
1993’s “Fatal Attractions” (Magneto founds Avalon, convinces Colossus to join the Acolytes during his sister’s funeral)
1994’s “Phalanx Covenant” (introduces Generation X)
1995’s “Age of Apocalypse” (creates an alternate reality ruled by En Sabah Nur)
1996’s “Onslaught” (shunts the Avengers and Fantastic Four into a pocket universe)
1997’s “Operation: Zero Tolerance” (human-sentinel hybrids imprison mutants)

We got some great Storm-centric stories during the crossovers:

- The creation of Gene Nation culminating in Uncanny X-Men 325 where Storm beat the breaks off of Marrow and ripped her heart out. I know a lot of people didn't like that issue because they thought Marrow was a kid, but Storm did what needed to be done and I still re-read that issue to this day.
- Phalanx Covenant story line has issues with Storm, Gambit and Yukio going up against the techo-organic villain are also really good.
- I enjoyed AOA Storm and her relationship with that Quicksilver.

I am not sure he really set Storm back. I would say Jim Lee hurt her more. She wasn't on the "cool" blue team when he split the X-Men into two teams.

Thank you and I totally agree. I felt that the books started to go downhill once he left them. I loved Kelly/Seagle and thought they could have been amazing but they never had a chance with editorial. I thought the X-men were left in good hands once Nicieza and Lobdell took over and found their groove

[butterflykyss]

Hmm, I don't know if I agree with your assessment. Off the bat, I admit I will ALWAYS appreciate Scott Lobdell because he created Generation X. That's probably the most favorite thing he did. I also enjoyed the Legion-Quest and the Age of Apocalypse which was his brainchildren too.

That said, his time on the book ran from Uncanny X-Men #286-350. We had some pretty iconic story lines during his reign. Most were these massive X-book crossovers.

1992’s “X-Cutioner’s Song” (Stryfe attacks Xavier, cripples Apocalypse, kidnaps Cyclops and Jean Grey and claims they’re his parents)
1993’s “Fatal Attractions” (Magneto founds Avalon, convinces Colossus to join the Acolytes during his sister’s funeral)
1994’s “Phalanx Covenant” (introduces Generation X)
1995’s “Age of Apocalypse” (creates an alternate reality ruled by En Sabah Nur)
1996’s “Onslaught” (shunts the Avengers and Fantastic Four into a pocket universe)
1997’s “Operation: Zero Tolerance” (human-sentinel hybrids imprison mutants)

We got some great Storm-centric stories during the crossovers:

- The creation of Gene Nation culminating in Uncanny X-Men 325 where Storm beat the breaks off of Marrow and ripped her heart out. I know a lot of people didn't like that issue because they thought Marrow was a kid, but Storm did what needed to be done and I still re-read that issue to this day.
- Phalanx Covenant story line has issues with Storm, Gambit and Yukio going up against the techo-organic villain are also really good.
- I enjoyed AOA Storm and her relationship with that Quicksilver.

I am not sure he really set Storm back. I would say Jim Lee hurt her more. She wasn't on the "cool" blue team when he split the X-Men into two teams.

Scott lobdell was FORCED to write Ororo ripping out Marrows heart. He didnt want to write the story because he felt it was OOC for her to do:

"Lobdell also revealed that he re-wrote Uncanny X-Men #325 from 1995 “six times completely from scratch because I couldn’t bring myself to follow through on the (editorial) edict, which was to have Storm kill Marrow. It was only (on) the sixth time that I came up with the version that I was morally okay with, and even to this day I feel badly having written the story.”

http://secretsbehindthexmen.blogspot...tions.html?m=1

I think my only issue with him is he effort to contradict a lot of what Claremont established about ororos characterization and power. she would kill when necessary, she was immune to the elements.

[powerpax]

A lot of those iconic storylines also just weren't very good, AFAIC. The only ones I think hold up are AoA and some of Fatal Attractions. Others have some good aspects or characters, or are fun nostalgia reads with the benefit of distance and time and better characterizations and stories since. But they were mostly big, flashy and stupid for me personally.

I have a lot of fondness for the silly, OTT 90s X-Men era, and other comic book stuff like it, after the fact. There are runs on some of the other X-books of the era I love, like Ellis Excalibur, or others I enjoy like some of Waid's run, post-Liefeld X-Force or PAD X-Factor. But at the time, as a kid and then teen, watching the X-Men get buried in endless foil covers, gimmicks, crossovers and 2-D characterization killed me. Storm is stoic and preachy. Rogue and Gambit can't touch and whine and talk in thick accents. Scott and Jean are Ronald and Nancy Reagan. Psylocke is a thong. Etc.

[WTHIOTina]

Speaking of Storm costumes....

https://www.facebook.com/TheM6P/posts/10156889243459541

The M6P does a countdown of the Top 10 Storm costumes and you can vote in their poll of your favorite!

[Havok83]

Scott lobdell was FORCED to write Ororo ripping out Marrows heart. He didnt want to write the story because he felt it was OOC for her to do:

"Lobdell also revealed that he re-wrote Uncanny X-Men #325 from 1995 “six times completely from scratch because I couldn’t bring myself to follow through on the (editorial) edict, which was to have Storm kill Marrow. It was only (on) the sixth time that I came up with the version that I was morally okay with, and even to this day I feel badly having written the story.”

http://secretsbehindthexmen.blogspot...tions.html?m=1

I think my only issue with him is he effort to contradict a lot of what Claremont established about ororos characterization and power. she would kill when necessary, she was immune to the elements.

I didnt know that but agree with him. The thing was too over the top and there was no consequence to hr killing a child. It didnt really get brought back up until they retconned Marrow's death. The death made no sense as Storm didnt have a weapon so how could she pierce Marrow's skin with her hands and rip the heart from her chest?She'd have been better off stabbing her like she did Callisto as that would have been more believable

[butterflykyss]

A lot of those iconic storylines also just weren't very good, AFAIC. The only ones I think hold up are AoA and some of Fatal Attractions. Others have some good aspects or characters, or are fun nostalgia reads with the benefit of distance and time and better characterizations and stories since. But they were mostly big, flashy and stupid for me personally.

I have a lot of fondness for the silly, OTT 90s X-Men era, and other comic book stuff like it, after the fact. There are runs on some of the other X-books of the era I love, like Ellis Excalibur, or others I enjoy like some of Waid's run, post-Liefeld X-Force or PAD X-Factor. But at the time, as a kid and then teen, watching the X-Men get buried in endless foil covers, gimmicks, crossovers and 2-D characterization killed me. Storm is stoic and preachy. Rogue and Gambit can't touch and whine and talk in thick accents. Scott and Jean are Ronald and Nancy Reagan. Psylocke is a thong. Etc.

omg yes to the bold. I mean Claremont Ororo could come off like that too and definitely before the brood sage but after losing her powers and finding yukio she greatly loosened up and enjoyed life. She became "human" and all that she learned from her tragedies and having to humble herself was all but loss.

[butterflykyss]

Speaking of Storm costumes....

https://www.facebook.com/TheM6P/posts/10156889243459541

The M6P does a countdown of the Top 10 Storm costumes and you can vote in their poll of your favorite!

thanks for sharing beloved I will vote .

I didnt know that but agree with him. The thing was too over the top and there was no consequence to hr killing a child. It didnt really get brought back up until they retconned Marrow's death. The death made no sense as Storm didnt have a weapon so how could she pierce Marrow's skin with her hands and rip the heart from her chest?She'd have been better off stabbing her like she did Callisto as that would have been more believable

well from what he said he changed it 6x to something he could live with so who knows what the original story was supposed to be. it's just a further testament to what was already said. I cant really speak to his entire run as I have not finished it but from what I've read of his storm I can say with confidence that his depiction wasnt nowhere near as good as Claremont storm.

this wouldnt even be an issue if the later books were written with Claremont version of her but I believe that Lobdells version really set the standard for which the subsequent versions would be written.

[Havok83]

well from what he said he changed it 6x to something he could live with so who knows what the original story was supposed to be. it's just a further testament to what was already said. I cant really speak to his entire run as I have not finished it but from what I've read of his storm I can say with confidence that his depiction wasnt nowhere near as good as Claremont storm.

To be fair, no one's is. His take on her was the last time she ever felt right in an X-book and that was well over a decade ago at this point

[jwatson]

is it because his ancestors were brought here as slaves? the only reason why I would be opposed to this is that canon states her maternal line goes back to the dawn of humanity, which would be easier to explain in terms of her godhood. but there's a 50% chance it is her father right? lol.



I don't ever want to.see that mohawk again. lol

I didn't really think about it as slavery as not every black person that migrated arrived at the location as a slave but it was more the idea. It doesn't change anything Storm inheretted from her mother but imo adds a beauty on her fathers side. He contained divine blood and never materialize being raised in a place where no one knew his story and here is daughter has brought that forward. Would be a nice connection.

[butterflykyss]

To be fair, no one's is. His take on her was the last time she ever felt right in an X-book and that was well over a decade ago at this point

I think some Polaris fans may take issue with this post lolol. I do agree with you about Storm though I'm hopeful Hickman does her justice. After this last issue I'm really excited for what he has in store for her.

I didn't really think about it as slavery as not every black person that migrated arrived at the location as a slave but it was more the idea. It doesn't change anything Storm inheretted from her mother but imo adds a beauty on her fathers side. He contained divine blood and never materialize being raised in a place where no one knew his story and here is daughter has brought that forward. Would be a nice connection.

It is an interesting concept I will admit and I wouldnt necessarily be opposed to it. This would require some major storytelling as nothing as of yet would suggest that such a power would extend from her paternal line.

[Stormrocks]

Scott lobdell was FORCED to write Ororo ripping out Marrows heart. He didnt want to write the story because he felt it was OOC for her to do:

"Lobdell also revealed that he re-wrote Uncanny X-Men #325 from 1995 “six times completely from scratch because I couldn’t bring myself to follow through on the (editorial) edict, which was to have Storm kill Marrow. It was only (on) the sixth time that I came up with the version that I was morally okay with, and even to this day I feel badly having written the story.”

http://secretsbehindthexmen.blogspot...tions.html?m=1

I think my only issue with him is he effort to contradict a lot of what Claremont established about ororos characterization and power. she would kill when necessary, she was immune to the elements.

I guess I am not sure why you are holding it against him that he was forced to write Storm killing Marrow. His original story must have had an alternative ending where Storm stopped her without killing, not that Storm allow people to be killed because she couldn't "pull the trigger", so to speak. Why is that a bad thing? You admit Storm will kill when necessary - if his original story made killing unnecessary, why is that a mark against him?