Ororo Munroe: Storm Appreciation 2019

[PhoenixStudies]

As much as I love Jean, some of the creators have written her as being quite problematic on a few occasions. Jean saw Ororo as a slave when she was the Black Queen and being manipulated by Mastermind. In the issue where they reveal Jean and Misty Knight are roommates, Jean mimics Misty's African American dialect while they are talking to each other. Even in that backup story with the dolphins, Jean kind of talks down to Misty. One of the worst offenses is when Jean turned Frenzy into a minstrel show of sorts in Eve of Destruction.

[GuiltyPleasure]

I agree with you here my friend. You bring up a very interesting point about the Alkamite people. One, I think this demonstrates that even though there are certain regions who revere her as a goddess it doesnt equate to all of wakanda. Also, I would love to know where the Alkamite region lies in proximity to Kenya. Perhaps this specific region has heard old stories of the Walker of the Clouds due to it being relatively close to Kenya and began to worship deities not indigenous to Wakanda.

Lastly, all of what you said in your last paragraph is why Ororo aligning with Krakoa prior to today's issue was very concerning to me. She is very much a hero for the WORLD and not just mutants. I guess now for me is how will the Xoffices handle her interaction with Tchalla. Will it be shown in the same loving manner it has been displayed in Coates' BP? I'm not encouraged it will.

Hmm. yes. Your last points goes back to our previous conversation about X-writers connecting their stories, even if only in a small way, to what happens with Ororo in BP. Collaboration is the key. Also, a conscientious editor would take care to make sure some links are made between and among comics. And, of those links, making sure writers aren't subverting what Coates has going on with BP/Wakanda and Ororo.

[butterflykyss]

As much as I love Jean, some of the creators have written her as being quite problematic on a few occasions. Jean saw Ororo as a slave when she was the Black Queen and being manipulated by Mastermind. In the issue where they reveal Jean and Misty Knight are roommates, Jean mimics Misty's African American dialect while they are talking to each other. Even in that backup story with the dolphins, Jean kind of talks down to Misty. One of the worst offenses is when Jean turned Frenzy into a minstrel show of sorts in Eve of Destruction.

Hey boo!! And are you serious in regards to misty and frenzy??? I'm fully aware of Ororo but what issues did the latter two occur? That actually is very disconcerting to read. This definitely supports gulity's point about the need of having true diversity in these comics. when you get a chance please let me know the issue number or please post scans here (^_^)

See, that's what happens when there is a lack of diversity of writers and editors in comics and other businesses. Their privilege comes through in **** like this. She was the X-Men's "exotic" team member from Kenya who had to be "civilized" as you guys already noted. Their was a great episode of Static Shock when he went to Africa (I have no idea if they actually stated a particular country). Anyway, he noted how different and good it felt to not be looked at like the "black guy" and treated differently because of it. Now, don't get me wrong, there are so many ways to discriminate against people, even within the same cultural group. But oppression is different than mere discrimination.

no you're absolutely right. this is why I was so upset that bp&c didnt last long. it reinforces the ideas about minority writers. and I'm not surprised about ss. sometimes people within the same race can be as ignorant as racist people outside their race. but to your last point oppression is quite different than discrimination. I hope coates can have a longer presence in the world of marvel because we need more diverse minds that challenge the status quo.

[Stormrocks]

I'll take a chance and read the issue. The Bishop thing intrigues me.

I will make my thoughts known in this very thread.

The Bishop's position makes Kitty leading even more weird. Bishop should be in charge.

[Diammandis]

The Bishop's position makes Kitty leading even more weird. Bishop should be in charge.

The only reason Kate is in charge seems to just be because she's apart of the HFC now, but I think Bishop is probably going to take reigns when they are in situations when combat is probably needed

[GuiltyPleasure]

Hey boo!! And are you serious in regards to misty and frenzy??? I'm fully aware of Ororo but what issues did the latter two occur? That actually is very disconcerting to read. This definitely supports gulity's point about the need of having true diversity in these comics. when you get a chance please let me know the issue number or please post scans here (^_^)



no you're absolutely right. this is why I was so upset that bp&c didnt last long. it reinforces the ideas about minority writers. and I'm not surprised about ss. sometimes people within the same race can be as ignorant as racist people outside their race. but to your last point oppression is quite different than discrimination. I hope coates can have a longer presence in the world of marvel because we need more diverse minds that challenge the status quo.

BP and the Crew was on point. I loved the dynamics Coates was building with the characters. The first two issues with Ororo and Misty were great and then the little awkward moments between T'Challa and Ororo were adorable. Coates did a nice job showing they still cared for each other, both regretting not just how their marriage ended but that it ended period. There were two adorable scenes between Ororo and T'Challa. One was when she caught him singing and he was embarrassed. Then she reminded him that he'd sang for her a time or two in the past. The other was when he had donned his Luke Charles alias and he commented on her not commenting on his clothing, noting Ororo "always had an eye for style." LOL. Talking about fishing for compliments and conversation with the ex. Girl, you gonna have me going back and re-reading those issues. These issues were Coates' early days in his efforts to slowly bring them together as a couple again. Actually, I think he did a pretty good job--taking the slow route, as well as having them address some of the issues that ruined their marriage.

[GuiltyPleasure]

do you really think the hadari yao is finally going to make her presence known for all mutantkind to know?


I would also like to see aspects of her blackness explored more a bit more by the xoffices. it doesn't have to be things controversial such as police brutality but we see Kamala embrace her Islamic culture, and miss America celebrate her culture and iceman embrace the LGBTQ issues. where is the same for ororo within the xbooks showing love for her culture and being African american?

Good question. Honestly, I don't think so, although it would be so cool. I mean, every time an X-writer makes her a god, they soon revoke that title. How many times will she be given Thor's hammer, for example, only to lose it? Honestly, I rather her not have her godhood linked to a non-African culture. Ideally, it would be great if it was linked to her mother's homeland. In a way, it is, considering that's the side of the family where she tracks her mutant lineage. Short of her godhood coming from Kenya, Wakanda is the next best option for me. Also, I just don't think X-writers are willing to deal with what it means to have an actual goddess in a team book.

[terrancejameson]

See, that's what happens when there is a lack of diversity of writers and editors in comics and other businesses. Their privilege comes through in **** like this. She was the X-Men's "exotic" team member from Kenya who had to be "civilized" as you guys already noted. Their was a great episode of Static Shock when he went to Africa (I have no idea if they actually stated a particular country). Anyway, he noted how different and good it felt to not be looked at like the "black guy" and treated differently because of it. Now, don't get me wrong, there are so many ways to discriminate against people, even within the same cultural group. But oppression is different than mere discrimination.

Yooooooo... can't tell you how it doesn't compute for me that Storm wouldn't understand american born racism white supremacy. She knows what a weave is. Storm has certainly hear the words black, mutant and bitch in some way. I honestly can't see where this idea come from where she wouldn't recognize good ole american homegrown racism. Especially not when Kitty Pryde can run around calling black males niggers.

As much as I love Jean, some of the creators have written her as being quite problematic on a few occasions. Jean saw Ororo as a slave when she was the Black Queen and being manipulated by Mastermind. In the issue where they reveal Jean and Misty Knight are roommates, Jean mimics Misty's African American dialect while they are talking to each other. Even in that backup story with the dolphins, Jean kind of talks down to Misty. One of the worst offenses is when Jean turned Frenzy into a minstrel show of sorts in Eve of Destruction.

Not the church in here delivering a sermon of epic proportions!!!!!!!!

[Stormultt Divine]

I wonder if Storm hooks up with Exodus at some point on krakoa.

[Stormrocks]

I wonder if Storm hooks up with Exodus at some point on krakoa.

For some reason, I had the same thought! I wonder why that is...

[Stormrocks]

The only reason Kate is in charge seems to just be because she's apart of the HFC now, but I think Bishop is probably going to take reigns when they are in situations when combat is probably needed

I guess we'll see. I was really hoping this issue would give us more insight and set up the first wave of books.

[PhoenixStudies]

Hey boo!! And are you serious in regards to misty and frenzy??? I'm fully aware of Ororo but what issues did the latter two occur? That actually is very disconcerting to read. This definitely supports gulity's point about the need of having true diversity in these comics. when you get a chance please let me know the issue number or please post scans here (^_^)

Ok, so Jean's interaction with Misty wasn't as bad as I remembered. It was Jean using "dig" in a conversation with Misty in Iron Fist #11. It surprised me because it seemed like they had Jean use that slang specifically because she was talking to Misty Knight. In Uncanny X-Men #110, Jean thinks about how Misty refers to her as her "kozmic roomie".





In Classic #13, Jean just scolds Misty for referring to the dolphins as fish instead of mammals.

What Jean did to Frenzy in Eve of Destruction (X-Men 112 and 113 and Uncanny 192 and 193) was way worse. Jean took away Frenzy's free will and changed her personality to be silly and dimwitted. She even mind controls her at times.

[PhoenixStudies]

[PhoenixStudies]

[butterflykyss]

BP and the Crew was on point. I loved the dynamics Coates was building with the characters. The first two issues with Ororo and Misty were great and then the little awkward moments between T'Challa and Ororo were adorable. Coates did a nice job showing they still cared for each other, both regretting not just how their marriage ended but that it ended period. There were two adorable scenes between Ororo and T'Challa. One was when she caught him singing and he was embarrassed. Then she reminded him that he'd sang for her a time or two in the past. The other was when he had donned his Luke Charles alias and he commented on her not commenting on his clothing, noting Ororo "always had an eye for style." LOL. Talking about fishing for compliments and conversation with the ex. Girl, you gonna have me going back and re-reading those issues. These issues were Coates' early days in his efforts to slowly bring them together as a couple again. Actually, I think he did a pretty good job--taking the slow route, as well as having them address some of the issues that ruined their marriage.

this post is giving me all my life. I must say this is making me want to go back and reread it myself. why am I smiling as you tall about tchalla singing to ororo?? this is why I love coates writing these two. he is able to let his guard down in the most intimate way that you would never imagine him doing when he is around ororo. he makes this untouchable king human and the same goes for tchalla. its black love magic and I love it all. And the slow route was 100% the right way to go. if he had just put them back together hurriedly the distractors would have said it was rushed. with his story there was no way they could say such a thing.

Good question. Honestly, I don't think so, although it would be so cool. I mean, every time an X-writer makes her a god, they soon revoke that title. How many times will she be given Thor's hammer, for example, only to lose it? Honestly, I rather her not have her godhood linked to a non-African culture. Ideally, it would be great if it was linked to her mother's homeland. In a way, it is, considering that's the side of the family where she tracks her mutant lineage. Short of her godhood coming from Kenya, Wakanda is the next best option for me. Also, I just don't think X-writers are willing to deal with what it means to have an actual goddess in a team book.

so I think originally when Claremont wrote stormcaster being destroyed that was intended by Claremont to be the last of it.




however, the subsequent two times the hammer made its reappearance was by way of the same writer. The first though canonically not consistent to the last time it was shown was inoffensive. it was destroyed again at the end of this story again. the second time he brought it back, I believe, was to directly contradict coates goddess story:





the story beats in Coates hadari Yao storyline hinged upon the idea of faith and prayer to achieve divinity, which aligns to marvel canonically. Guggenheim not only looked to once again ignore canon to make his point to disregard coates work, but he also demonstrated that ororo wasnt a goddess unless she had a white Norse God tool in her possession to make her one. so I see the hammer, at least in its last incarnation, as a tool to troll coates efforts and affirming the xoffices belief she is not a God. but I do agree that unless something miraculous happens we want see it mentioned by the xoffices.

Yooooooo... can't tell you how it doesn't compute for me that Storm wouldn't understand american born racism white supremacy. She knows what a weave is. Storm has certainly hear the words black, mutant and bitch in some way. I honestly can't see where this idea come from where she wouldn't recognize good ole american homegrown racism. Especially not when Kitty Pryde can run around calling black males niggers.


Not the church in here delivering a sermon of epic proportions!!!!!!!!

nothing but truth boo as usual.

Ok, so Jean's interaction with Misty wasn't as bad as I remembered. It was Jean using "dig" in a conversation with Misty in Iron Fist #11. It surprised me because it seemed like they had Jean use that slang specifically because she was talking to Misty Knight. In Uncanny X-Men #110, Jean thinks about how Misty refers to her as her "kozmic roomie".


In Classic #13, Jean just scolds Misty for referring to the dolphins as fish instead of mammals.

What Jean did to Frenzy in Eve of Destruction (X-Men 112 and 113 and Uncanny 192 and 193) was way worse. Jean took away Frenzy's free will and changed her personality to be silly and dimwitted. She even mind controls her at times.
]

do you as a fan think there are some innate qualities about Jean that may indicate she is racist?

and thank you for these scans. they are not as bad as I thought but still not a good look.