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  1. #7861
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    Sorry, I thought you knew the story. Ramonda was kidnapped by a white South African when she visited her home country when Tchalla was little. She wasn't recovered until after he became Black Panther. Shuris' moment was in an issue of "Back to Africa". The difference is you expect that behavior from bad people. But Coates has it blanketed on men in general.

    This sounds like that episode of "Boy Meets World" were Cory stayed up all night and talked to a girl. It became a big thing an nothing happened.
    yea thats awful. was the white dude killed? and that is exactly what I think he is doing. the desires of men or some dont change because you are wakandan or not. that is what I liked about the storyline.

    Quote Originally Posted by GuiltyPleasure View Post
    That's very true and T'Challa would feel like shit and totally played. I'm unsure if that's the route Coates will take, and, if he does, then the split face image would be a total spoiler.
    omg... if tchalla found out he got played and still loved her now that would be some f'ed up ish. and though I wanna be right because I dont want ororos love story to end, I would hope they wouldnt put a spoiler like that on the cover. so we know when the issue is out?
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  2. #7862
    Astonishing Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    yea thats awful. was the white dude killed? and that is exactly what I think he is doing. the desires of men or some dont change because you are wakandan or not. that is what I liked about the storyline.



    omg... if tchalla found out he got played and still loved her now that would be some f'ed up ish. and though I wanna be right because I dont want ororos love story to end, I would hope they wouldnt put a spoiler like that on the cover. so we know when the issue is out?
    No, and that's what upsets me about the story. He got off with a punch to the face. Like Doomwar, it was a BS ending. And to make it worse, in a later story, McGregor implied that Ramonda took pleasure from it occasionally.

    At the bolded. I don't like this statement. It implies that every man is a pre programmed rapist. The "behavior" of men can be determined by how they're raised. And I don't feel Wakanda raises men to behave that way.

  3. #7863
    Incredible Member GuiltyPleasure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    omg... if tchalla found out he got played and still loved her now that would be some f'ed up ish. and though I wanna be right because I dont want ororos love story to end, I would hope they wouldnt put a spoiler like that on the cover. so we know when the issue is out?
    The image could also mean that Nakia comes face-to-face with the enemy; thereby, fulfilling Ororo's request for her to protect and help T'Challa when she isn't around to do it herself. Ugh, I hate to have even written that part. What the hell, Coates. I just can't countenance some of the stuff he wrote Ororo saying to Nakia, and this is one of them. Anyway, it may very well mean that as opposed to her being proven to be the spy. But, as you said, time will tell. I don't know what issue this is from. This is my first time seeing the image.

  4. #7864
    Storm Goddess Wind Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post






    xmen Monday did not change the idea that maurauders is xmen gold 2.0.
    These look interesting (though the coloring is weird/off in the 2nd panel), especially the first panel.

    And the addition of Callisto could be interesting. She has a sorted history with Kitty (including that horrific X-Men Gold prison story) but she & Storm were on decent terms per her solo. Though...I would LOVE IT if we got Octo-Cal back. She was such a badass in Excalibur & XXM vol.1.

  5. #7865
    Fantastic Member Jalysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormphoenix View Post
    That's all you can do is sit back and enjoy the ride and see how this progress.

    Again the book didn't even feel like it was all kitty based which is why it was a good issue #1. Just wish people did more homework on Gerry Duggan and actually read his work instead jumping to conclusion all the damn time.

    I agree with you here. Yes, Kitty was the central figure, but it didn't come across as both obnoxious and insulting like with X-Men Gold. That's the key difference people are missing.

  6. #7866
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    No, and that's what upsets me about the story. He got off with a punch to the face. Like Doomwar, it was a BS ending. And to make it worse, in a later story, McGregor implied that Ramonda took pleasure from it occasionally.

    At the bolded. I don't like this statement. It implies that every man is a pre programmed rapist. The "behavior" of men can be determined by how they're raised. And I don't feel Wakanda raises men to behave that way.
    1. It sounds similar to that of the Stockholm syndrome. that's very unfortunate. and dont get me started on doomwar. lol

    2. it's not to say all men are rapist innately but in all forms of society no matter how advanced you will find deviant or perverse behavior. this would be true even of a society as advanced as wakanda.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Rider View Post
    These look interesting (though the coloring is weird/off in the 2nd panel), especially the first panel.

    And the addition of Callisto could be interesting. She has a sorted history with Kitty (including that horrific X-Men Gold prison story) but she & Storm were on decent terms per her solo. Though...I would LOVE IT if we got Octo-Cal back. She was such a badass in Excalibur & XXM vol.1.
    I still havent gotten to xx but once I'm done with uncanny I think I will go to that title next. I'm hoping gold can be forgotten. I don't mind her being bad but the less reminders we have of gold the better.

    Quote Originally Posted by GuiltyPleasure View Post
    The image could also mean that Nakia comes face-to-face with the enemy; thereby, fulfilling Ororo's request for her to protect and help T'Challa when she isn't around to do it herself. Ugh, I hate to have even written that part. What the hell, Coates. I just can't countenance some of the stuff he wrote Ororo saying to Nakia, and this is one of them. Anyway, it may very well mean that as opposed to her being proven to be the spy. But, as you said, time will tell. I don't know what issue this is from. This is my first time seeing the image.
    I'm not sure where thst is from either. it's from an upcoming issue. oh how I wish we weren't going down this path but I have confidence in coates he has yet to let me down.

    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    I would argue Storm is the worst kind of helpless. A strong powerful woman who can't uplift others. Nothing weaker than that condition in my opinion. I was just so disappointed. Even her basic talk with Nakia could have been a simple thank you and her getting to know HER, the woman who built the army she claimed to be interested in. Storm isn't the type to talk someone up or down from second hand knowledge. The scene just didn't feel authentic for me and i know Coates is a smart man. The words used were so meticulous. it was a very well thought out conversation on the state of men and what to expect from relations with them from what i deem a very smart man and for what i am suppose to believe was an emotional Ororo.

    Your last line is EXACTLY it. Instead he sort of tells you it is what it is and accept it and i can't connect with that.
    this isnt the first time we saw ororo be "helpless" though or emotionally "weak":

    the first time we saw this is when ororo wanted to get forges approval after she "lost" her powers:



    and let's not forget how she literally rained on tchallas parade when he was looking for a new suitor:







    displaying characteristics that some would consider emotionally weak or helpless is not.something she is immune to. it makes her human, it makes her a woman. these are attributes we all have displayed one time or another, thus it shouldnt be something one is ashamed of imho.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  7. #7867
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    1. It sounds similar to that of the Stockholm syndrome. that's very unfortunate. and dont get me started on doomwar. lol

    2. it's not to say all men are rapist innately but in all forms of society no matter how advanced you will find deviant or perverse behavior. this would be true even of a society as advanced as wakanda.



    I still havent gotten to xx but once I'm done with uncanny I think I will go to that title next. I'm hoping gold can be forgotten. I don't mind her being bad but the less reminders we have of gold the better.



    I'm not sure where thst is from either. it's from an upcoming issue. oh how I wish we weren't going down this path but I have confidence in coates he has yet to let me down.



    this isnt the first time we saw ororo be "helpless" though or emotionally "weak":

    the first time we saw this is when ororo wanted to get forges approval after she "lost" her powers:



    and let's not forget how she literally rained on tchallas parade when he was looking for a new suitor:







    displaying characteristics that some would consider emotionally weak or helpless is not.something she is immune to. it makes her human, it makes her a woman. these are attributes we all have displayed one time or another, thus it shouldnt be something one is ashamed of imho.
    True but do you really see storm lumping all men into a category or all mutants or all black people or all white people. I don't. And I'm not interested in watching her be used as a vehicle for Coates to voice his displeasure with the status of men. Especially when it lacks balance. Please post one outright panel just one from his entire run where something positive is said about a man. I mean undisputably positive. Or how the male condition can be improved rather than just voiced upon. Those are the panels I want to see.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  8. #7868
    Storm Goddess Wind Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    I still havent gotten to xx but once I'm done with uncanny I think I will go to that title next. I'm hoping gold can be forgotten. I don't mind her being bad but the less reminders we have of gold the better.

    I'm not sure where thst is from either. it's from an upcoming issue. oh how I wish we weren't going down this path but I have confidence in coates he has yet to let me down.

    this isnt the first time we saw ororo be "helpless" though or emotionally "weak":

    the first time we saw this is when ororo wanted to get forges approval after she "lost" her powers:

    and let's not forget how she literally rained on tchallas parade when he was looking for a new suitor:


    displaying characteristics that some would consider emotionally weak or helpless is not.something she is immune to. it makes her human, it makes her a woman. these are attributes we all have displayed one time or another, thus it shouldnt be something one is ashamed of imho.
    Looking forward to reading your opinion on XXM. Hands down one of my fave runs of all time (not perfect but Claremont wrote the hell out of Storm and her team). His Excalibur vol.2 with Octo-Callisto was a good read as well. No Storm but well written for the cast he had. Lol on the AvX BP/Storm post break up scans. As much as I appreciated Aaron noting Storm’s martial combat and, escape artist and lock picking skills he should never get his hands on her again lol. She was hella petty (funny & friendly scene though...).

    I think Coates, specifically in this last issue, captured Storm’s emotional vulnerability and frustrations but also her strength. There is a lot of complicated history between Storm and the men she has loved over the years (BP most of all) so its interesting to read that scene and feel that there is a toll being taken on her.
    Last edited by Wind Rider; 11-05-2019 at 08:13 AM.

  9. #7869
    Extraordinary Member stormphoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jalysia View Post
    I agree with you here. Yes, Kitty was the central figure, but it didn't come across as both obnoxious and insulting like with X-Men Gold. That's the key difference people are missing.
    Yeah, thank you!!

    Also, did you hear Callisto might be joining the Marauders as well....
    Ororo Munroe(Bright Lady), Hadari Yao, The Cloud Runner, Goddess of the People.
    Goddess of the Storm.
    #StormsMootyPass
    #PlusUltra!!!
    #StormCaster
    The Piercing Light of AmunRa!!!!!
    MUTANT and PROUD
    #KRAKOA FOREVER

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  10. #7870
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Rider View Post
    Looking forward to reading your opinion on XXM. Hands down one of my fave runs of all time (not perfect but Claremont wrote the hell out of Storm and her team). His Excalibur vol.2 with Octo-Callisto was a good read as well. No Storm but well written for the cast he had. Lol on the AvX BP/Storm post break up scans. As much as I appreciated Aaron noting Storm’s martial combat and, escape artist and lock picking skills he should never get his hands on her again lol. She was hella petty (funny & friendly scene though...).

    I think Coates, specifically in this last issue, captured Storm’s emotional vulnerability and frustrations but also her strength. There is a lot of complicated history between Storm and the men she has loved over the years (BP most of all) so its interesting to read that scene and feel that there is a toll being taken on her.
    I felt this. I think this issue gave us his most beautiful Storm. I'm really digging how THIS is the first time she's willing to brag on herself. She still has not claimed the name Hadari Yao. We've yet to see her step into that and own it. Only now do we see her speak on their deeper intimacy. Here is where we see her claim the man and the lands that she loves. It's the extension of conversation that started during the council of twelve. I love that she and Nakia start out on shaky ground, but ultimately head into the war council on balanced footing. Every time I read it I love it more.

  11. #7871
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    True but do you really see storm lumping all men into a category or all mutants or all black people or all white people. I don't. And I'm not interested in watching her be used as a vehicle for Coates to voice his displeasure with the status of men. Especially when it lacks balance. Please post one outright panel just one from his entire run where something positive is said about a man. I mean undisputably positive. Or how the male condition can be improved rather than just voiced upon. Those are the panels I want to see.
    she actually lumped all men or specifically humans in one category in xmen 1 which was written by hickman:





    and certainly. ramonda commented on his happiness after she was nearly killed in a suicide bomb attack:



    he was free and happy to love as he chose. so the things you wish to see are there .
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  12. #7872
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    she actually lumped all men or specifically humans in one category in xmen 1 which was written by hickman:






    he was free and happy to love as he chose. so the things you wish to see are there .
    LMAO point proven. I don't know what a whole other book has to do with my question. And i don't see how wanting someone to be free and happy equates to they are a good man. Lol. So three volumes and the best one can come up with is "be happy." okay. And you choose to lump all men in Storm's statement i don't see it that way but in BP she was specifically talking about the condition of the male. Nice try though. I mean it's fine you like Coate's run, it's cool but i don't believe it when you all say your in it for more than how Storm is portrayed. That's just my opinion though and we can go around every corner in the world and reach like mr. fantastic but nothing anyone has provided in defense of Coates debunks how he views men. I'm just not one to like my cereal peed in and people trying to tell me it's milk.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  13. #7873
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Rider View Post
    These look interesting (though the coloring is weird/off in the 2nd panel), especially the first panel.

    And the addition of Callisto could be interesting. She has a sorted history with Kitty (including that horrific X-Men Gold prison story) but she & Storm were on decent terms per her solo. Though...I would LOVE IT if we got Octo-Cal back. She was such a badass in Excalibur & XXM vol.1.
    They could have her be able to shapeshift her Arms into tentacles with some Sinister tampering.

  14. #7874
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    LMAO point proven. I don't know what a whole other book has to do with my question. And i don't see how wanting someone to be free and happy equates to they are a good man. Lol. So three volumes and the best one can come up with is "be happy." okay. And you choose to lump all men in Storm's statement i don't see it that way but in BP she was specifically talking about the condition of the male. Nice try though. I mean it's fine you like Coate's run, it's cool but i don't believe it when you all say your in it for more than how Storm is portrayed. That's just my opinion though and we can go around every corner in the world and reach like mr. fantastic but nothing anyone has provided in defense of Coates debunks how he views men. I'm just not one to like my cereal peed in and people trying to tell me it's milk.
    your question was when has storm lumped all men or all black people or whatever into one category. I provided you objective evidence of her doing that very thing from a writer many have given much praise for his works. and how can you not see her as lumping all men or humans in one category? she explicitly states what man does in desperate conditions and how they should respond when beaten. that's a lumping together right there.

    secondly you asked for any instance throughout the entire run where there was something positive about man in Coates book. I provided you that which again contradicts your argument. now if you want to move the goal post after seeing my response we can do that but your initial request was addressed was it not?
    Last edited by butterflykyss; 11-05-2019 at 11:55 AM.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  15. #7875
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    your question was when has storm lumped all men or all black people or whatever into one category. I provided you objective evidence of her doing that very thing from a writer many have given much praise for his works. and how can you not see her as lumping all men or humans in one category? she explicitly states what man does in desperate conditions and how they should respond when beaten. that's a lumping together right there.

    secondly you asked for any instance throughout the entire run where there was something positive about man in Coates book. I provided you that which again contradicts your argument. now if you want to move the goal post after seeing my response we can do that but your initial request was addressed was it not?
    No i said do you see Storm as someone who lumps all men together? It was a question you didn't answer. IMO she was talking about the men she was going up against. But if you want to post a panel and take all the context away to fit your narrative that is cool. But i'm stamping that receipt revoked because it don't make sense.

    And i said say something postive about men, not notice an emotional state of a man in that second so i'm going to have to stamp that receipt as unreturnable too.

    I find it funny that in one breath you can talk about how horrible X-men Gold was for Storm and how kitty got all the shine, but yet you can do a figure 8 to somehow turn black panther into some great piece of work and not see where his fans are coming from. So no, none of my questions were answered.

    But then hey, if you think Storm meant ALL men in that panel i guess that in of itself informs me on what YOU think of Storm.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

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