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  1. #9106
    Fantastic Member GuiltyPleasure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrancejameson View Post
    Baaaaabbbbyyyyyyy.... your take is one that I greatly appreciate and regularly look forward to. Our interpretation of the text isnt always in line with one another's, but for some reason I always end up nodding in agreement. I even cackled a few times.

    I totally loved Storm's side eye at T'Challa. It felt very "you're the most intelligent man I know, do not insult us both by playing stupid." Their relationship shines like never before because of the depths of theirs souls are explored and laid bare to one another. Ororo is again elevating her man, the most strategic and intelligent man that she's ever known, to a place of legend. He was forced to fight to keep the name his mother gave him and he took it upon himself to fight for the name of Wakanda that he loves, not the Wakanda that grew into a perverted idea of its former glory. No one should expect a man of his stature to sit idly by as Wakanda becomes exactly what MCU Killmonger wanted to turn the country into.

    I remain in awe of the ways in which T'Challa and Ororo continue to love one another through their disagreements. Just as I predicted Coates has found a way to mimic the narrative of Storm as the one true Hadari Yao through T'Challa's elevation as the legend who put the blade where it belonged. I honestly believe this issue brought them even closer. T'Challa understands Ororo's reluctance of accepting the name Hadari Yao. He had to literally fight to reclaim his memories and his name. He fought to claim his true sense of self. He had to reject the the beliefs, the myth, the legend that only served to keep him in chains. That's no different than what Storm has done with the myth and legend of the Hadari Yao. She's going to choose her own path. The way she connects the dots for him this issue is like issue #172 all over again, but in reverse.

    There's just so much for me to love here! Storm has her signature cat irises she's supposed to. I really enjoy their banter here. Storm's not a telepath, but she reads T'Challa's mind like a book. It's clear they accept one another, flaws and all.

    Yes, this and so much more. Yes, the side eye was like "don't play dumb. You know what in the hell is on my mind." LOL. That's classic sista girl stuff there, and T'Challa's one word "Right," acknowledges he did indeed know why she had been quiet that evening and what she was thinking about. T'Challa and Ororo are both honest, but I think Coates depicts their honesty in different ways. Ororo's honesty is deeply reflective, where she examines self but doesn't end with her self-flagellating the way T'Challa does. His honesty is about facts and feelings but not always a true understanding of the why. He has blinders, the way all people do, but his "luxury" in life, as Ororo accurately described it prevents him from seeing much. And there was no judgment of him having grown up in luxury while she grew up experiencing poverty. Their experiences are lens through which they view themselves, each other, and the world.


    And, can we talk about Coates little dig about the false comparison between the plight of mutants and that of African Americans. Too many people assume they understand the history and legacy of enslavement and oppression of Africans in America, including immigrants to America. I loved that Storm acknowledged her own erroneous assumptions about her understanding of African American racial oppression simply because she was a mutant and had also experienced discrimination. I could go on, but I'm sure I've written tons of spoilers in my response.

  2. #9107
    Casual Comics Reader/Fan Londo Bellian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    Storm's sprite from X-Men vs. Street Fighter (1996).
    Source: http://rebloggy.com/post/gif-gaming-...er/43116884727
    More respect for Capcom's Marvel games, even if it's only the earlier once since they started with X-Men.
    Genkai nante nai (No limits), Zettai nante nai (No absolutes)

    The Current Hill that I Risk Dying On: #KrakoaNEVERMYXMEN
    "I promise, I'll definitely save you. With my tenth and final life, I WILL PROTECT YOU, MUTANDOKA!" ~HoMoira Kinross Akemi

  3. #9108
    Fantastic Member GuiltyPleasure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrancejameson View Post
    Baaaaabbbbyyyyyyy.... your take is one that I greatly appreciate and regularly look forward to. Our interpretation of the text isnt always in line with one another's, but for some reason I always end up nodding in agreement. I even cackled a few times.

    I totally loved Storm's side eye at T'Challa. It felt very "you're the most intelligent man I know, do not insult us both by playing stupid." Their relationship shines like never before because of the depths of theirs souls are explored and laid bare to one another. Ororo is again elevating her man, the most strategic and intelligent man that she's ever known, to a place of legend. He was forced to fight to keep the name his mother gave him and he took it upon himself to fight for the name of Wakanda that he loves, not the Wakanda that grew into a perverted idea of its former glory. No one should expect a man of his stature to sit idly by as Wakanda becomes exactly what MCU Killmonger wanted to turn the country into.

    I remain in awe of the ways in which T'Challa and Ororo continue to love one another through their disagreements. Just as I predicted Coates has found a way to mimic the narrative of Storm as the one true Hadari Yao through T'Challa's elevation as the legend who put the blade where it belonged. I honestly believe this issue brought them even closer. T'Challa understands Ororo's reluctance of accepting the name Hadari Yao. He had to literally fight to reclaim his memories and his name. He fought to claim his true sense of self. He had to reject the the beliefs, the myth, the legend that only served to keep him in chains. That's no different than what Storm has done with the myth and legend of the Hadari Yao. She's going to choose her own path. The way she connects the dots for him this issue is like issue #172 all over again, but in reverse.

    There's just so much for me to love here! Storm has her signature cat irises she's supposed to. I really enjoy their banter here. Storm's not a telepath, but she reads T'Challa's mind like a book. It's clear they accept one another, flaws and all.
    Oh, and let's not forget "ribald bantering." LOL. T'Challa's servants are making sexual comments about the likelihood that T'Challa and Ororo are having sex. LOL. And, damn, I didn't know T'Challa's hearing was that good. His servants obviously don't know either if they are talking about their king's sex life.

  4. #9109
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuiltyPleasure View Post
    Oh, and let's not forget "ribald bantering." LOL. T'Challa's servants are making sexual comments about the likelihood that T'Challa and Ororo are having sex. LOL. And, damn, I didn't know T'Challa's hearing was that good. His servants obviously don't know either if they are talking about their king's sex life.
    Who knew we needed the Wakandan Downton Abbey?

  5. #9110
    Extraordinary Member stormphoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuiltyPleasure View Post
    Black Panther (2018) #19

    It's too early to get into a thorough discussion of this issue, so I'll wait until some of you have had a chance to read the issue. A couple of light spoilers ahead.




    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____

    I did enjoy this issue. The conversation is between T'Challa and Ororo and it is AFTER their reunion and conversation about T'Challa's relationship with Nakia. Coates gets into some of how Ororo feels about T'Challa's confession, as well as the man who returned after being away from her for so long. He also addresses the long held comparison between discrimination of mutants and the systematic oppression of African Americans. Love this part. He has a very definite opinion on this, which he has Ororo express, as well as her take on what it means to be privileged, like T'Challa. And, of course, there is the part about the future Wakandan empire and T'Challa's reaction to what he saw, as well as what he "couldn't" or "wouldn't" see.

    I think the conversation between T'Challa and Ororo, especially Ororo's response to T'Challa's concern about not seeing the empire for what it was, can be viewed as an example of what she meant when she told Nakia no woman can offer T'Challa what she can. Ororo's perspective, including her hurt, anger, jealousy, but also her love and support for T'Challa was done so well, IMO.

    And yes, T'Challa does know about Krakoa.

    Okay, I'm going to leave it at that for now. But there was one sista girl moment in the issue where Ororo cut her eye at T'Challa that was priceless. Okay, I'm really letting this go now until others have read the issue.
    As to the other stuff mmm that's good she made her voice known. And since T'Challa knows about Krakoa i'm interested in his stance about it.

    To the Bold:
    I hope it makes sense, because that is an interesting and touchy topic. Thank You for your input. It sounds very interesting.

    The Website that I read comics on has not even posted it yet, only the DOX books which i'm thankful for. But they are slacking.........
    Ororo Munroe(Bright Lady), Hadari Yao, The Cloud Runner, Goddess of the People.
    Goddess of the Storm.
    #StormsMootyPass
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  6. #9111
    Fantastic Member GuiltyPleasure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Quiet Councilor View Post
    Who knew we needed the Wakandan Downton Abbey?

    Well, I think it's unsurprising that his staff would talk. Hell, in real life we talk about celebrities' and politicians sex lives. If you don't think White House staffers don't talk about whichever presidential couple is living there then ... Hell yes they do. So, I wouldn't expect Wakandan royal staff to be any different.

    It was also meant to break up the seriousness with a bit of levity. Ororo's response was great: "And what are they saying?" See, that right there is priceless because T'Challa was being super serious and kind of missing the point and being more "kingly" than a normal man. Coates has a great way of having Ororo remind him that he is one but also the other.
    Last edited by GuiltyPleasure; 11-27-2019 at 04:01 PM.

  7. #9112
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Well well well. this issue was absolutely spectacular just as guilty pleasure mentioned.

    Coates ability to craft comicbook story beats around real life scenarios is one that he perfectly executes. Not only does their conversation read authentic and healthy in a manner one would expect between close lovers but their dialogue pertaining to tchalla's inability to see the lies of his empire and the parallel this to the lies of America I found to be very powerful. Coates usage of Ororo's experience to connect his blindness to the atrocities of the wakandan galaxy empire to her own in America was perhaps the highlight of the issue to me. Moreover, we get insight to why Tchallas demeanor. He was most certainly happy and proud of his accomplishments before being a slave; however, to see his quest for more minerals led to so much suffering how could he feign happiness? Tchalla recognizes though he didnt directly spread war in this new empire it doesnt mean he can dissolve himself from it completely. This is something I thought draws parallels to the discussion of reparations and how some opponents state they were not alive during that period so why should they suffer because of it. Contrary to their ignorance, coates shows tchalla in the opposite light and fully aware of his duty to correct the injustice of the wakandan society by saying the empire must fall. It was just so much goodness.


    Aside from this, it seems coates IS NOT trying to break these two apart and he is fully aware of Krakoa and still LOVES Ororo. She obviously still loves him despite their two nations not being on the same page. So I thought overall it was another slam dunk of an issue and I'm ready to see where it goes next.
    Last edited by butterflykyss; 11-27-2019 at 09:33 PM.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  8. #9113
    Fantastic Member GuiltyPleasure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    Well well well. this issue was absolutely spectacular just as guilty pleasure mentioned.

    Coates ability to craft comicbook story beats around real life scenarios is one that he perfectly executes. Not only does their conversation read authentic and healthy in a manner one would expect between close lovers but their dialogue pertaining to tchalla's inability to see the lies of his empire and the parallel this to the lies of America I found to be very powerful. Coates usage of Ororo's experience to connect his blindness to the atrocities of the wakandan galaxy empire to her own in America was perhaps the highlight of the issue to me. Moreover, we get insight to why Tchallas demeanor. He was most certainly happy and proud of his accomplishments before being a slave; however, to see his quest for more minerals led to so much suffering how could he feign happiness? Tchalla recognizes though he didnt directly spread war in this new empire it doesnt mean he can dissolve himself from it completely. This is something I thought draws parallels to the discussion of reparations and how some opponents state they were not alive during that period so why should they suffer because of it. Contrary to their ignorance, coates shows tchalla in the opposite light and fully aware of his duty to correct the injustice of the wakandan society by saying the empire must fall. It was just so much goodness.


    Aside from this, it seems coates IS NOT trying to break these two apart and he is fully aware of Krakoa and still LOVES Ororo. She obviously still loves him despite their two nations not being on the same page. So I thought overall it was another slam dunk of an issue and I'm ready to see where it goes next.
    I've reread this issue several times for the conversation between Ororo and T'Challa. Coates does such a great job with Ororo's character. He gives them both such depth, combining what makes them special with what makes them utterly human. Despite how hurt, angry, and jealous Ororo is about what transpired between T'Challa and Nakia, she not only knows and admits that some of those feelings are unfair to T'Challa, she can also not deny how much she loves and still wants to be with him. For T'Challa, he is truly apologetic (he's obviously apologized more than once to Ororo) about a relationship that, considering the circumstances and his memory loss, made sense.

    It's a twist on cheating. Did he really cheat, considering he had memory loss? Many people, probably most, would say he didn't. But, for Ororo, it probably feels as if he did, even though she understands that the T'Challa she knows would never do such a thing. His honesty/morality is clearly revealed by the fact that he confessed all when he could've remained silent. But, it's also more than that for Ororo because T'Challa has returned different than the man who left. So, she has to wrap her mind around the fact that, for him, it's been years, and she knows next to nothing about those years he spent away from her. He's lived an entire life without her--that is deeper than anything that happened with Nakia.

    For T'Challa, with his memories returned, he probably feels a fair amount of guilt--even if he isn't technically guilty of doing anything more than seeking happiness and normalcy under harsh conditions. So now, he has two sets of memories and experiences. He's returned home and a relationship and a woman he is only now remembering. Do they pick up where they left off? Can they do so, considering everything that has happened and who he now is based on his experiences?

    Honestly, I'm still unsure of the extent of his and Nakia's relationship. I didn't think they really had one--although there were feelings between them. I did't think Coates showed them as being in a true relationship or having sexual relations. But now it's as if it was this big thing between them. Perhaps someone who read all of the spacefaring issues could explain.
    Last edited by GuiltyPleasure; 11-28-2019 at 08:51 AM.

  9. #9114
    Extraordinary Member stormphoenix's Avatar
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    Wow, those are really long responses. Anyway,

    Haven’t read it yet, but since nobody is really talking about it. I’m going to assume the story as a whole wasn’t that interesting. Some of the BP fans got information that Coates is going to do a relaunch. And that BP comic sales aren’t doing good. Well, I hope Coates gets his stuff together and talk about Storms Godhood before he gets the Boot.

    Last edited by stormphoenix; 11-28-2019 at 03:26 PM.
    Ororo Munroe(Bright Lady), Hadari Yao, The Cloud Runner, Goddess of the People.
    Goddess of the Storm.
    #StormsMootyPass
    #PlusUltra!!!
    #StormCaster
    The Piercing Light of AmunRa!!!!!
    MUTANT and PROUD
    #KRAKOA FOREVER

    #catchmutanthands

  10. #9115
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuiltyPleasure View Post
    I've reread this issue several times for the conversation between Ororo and T'Challa. Coates does such a great job with Ororo's character. He gives them both such depth, combining what makes them special with what makes them utterly human. Despite how hurt, angry, and jealous Ororo is about what transpired between T'Challa and Nakia, she not only knows and admits that some of those feelings are unfair to T'Challa, she can also not deny how much she loves and still wants to be with him. For T'Challa, he is truly apologetic (he's obviously apologized more than once to Ororo) about a relationship that, considering the circumstances and his memory loss, made sense.

    It's a twist on cheating. Did he really cheat, considering he had memory loss? Many people, probably most, would say he didn't. But, for Ororo, it probably feels as if he did, even though she understands that the T'Challa she knows would never do such a thing. His honesty/morality is clearly revealed by the fact that he confessed all when he could've remained silent. But, it's also more than that for Ororo because T'Challa has returned different than the man who left. So, she has to wrap her mind around the fact that, for him, it's been years, and she knows next to nothing about those years he spent away from her. He's lived an entire life without her--that is deeper than anything that happened with Nakia.

    For T'Challa, with his memories returned, he probably feels a fair amount of guilt--even if he isn't technically guilty of doing anything more than seeking happiness and normalcy under harsh conditions. So now, he has two sets of memories and experiences. He's returned home and a relationship and a woman he is only now remembering. Do they pick up where they left off? Can they do so, considering everything that has happened and who he now is based on his experiences?

    Honestly, I'm still unsure of the extent of his and Nakia's relationship. I didn't think they really had one--although there were feelings between them. I did't think Coates showed them as being in a true relationship or having sexual relations. But now it's as if it was this big thing between them. Perhaps someone who read all of the spacefaring issues could explain.
    1. yes they both seem to be fully aware of each other's feelings in regard to nakia and they still love each other. his sadness has nothing to do with his feelings for nakia but is due to his guilt in the role he played in the creation of the galactic empire.

    2. did tchalla cheat? of course not and ororo is completely aware of this even considering her anger and jealousy, which she acknowledges. her primary concern is fully understanding what occurred to him that cause him to change.

    3. from my interpretation of the events within the story their love hasnt ended and it seems they are moving forward with the understanding of his experiences in galatic wakanda. remember ororo tries to help he look at the situation in the context if the lies America told for over 400 years.

    4. nakia, based upon the story and her words, mentioned that they had an affinity for each other but they couldnt explore those feelings because of the "ghost" which was ororo embedded in tchallas mind. I think this issue makes clear he heart and mind are totally devoted to ororo
    Last edited by butterflykyss; 11-28-2019 at 09:09 PM.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  11. #9116
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormphoenix View Post
    Wow, those are really long responses. Anyway,

    Haven’t read it yet, but since nobody is really talking about it. I’m going to assume the story as a whole wasn’t that interesting. Some of the BP fans got information that Coates is going to do a relaunch. And that BP comic sales aren’t doing good. Well, I hope Coates gets his stuff together and talk about Storms Godhood before he gets the Boot.

    Yeah you're right, those responses are way too long for me to read. I usually keep scrolling. I don't have the energy for it lol

  12. #9117
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormphoenix View Post
    Wow, those are really long responses. Anyway,

    Haven’t read it yet, but since nobody is really talking about it. I’m going to assume the story as a whole wasn’t that interesting. Some of the BP fans got information that Coates is going to do a relaunch. And that BP comic sales aren’t doing good. Well, I hope Coates gets his stuff together and talk about Storms Godhood before he gets the Boot.

    people arent responding because there was nothing for the usual suspects to complain about. tchalla was shown favorably and so was the supporting cast. coates didnt give any of his distractors anything to work with this issue.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  13. #9118
    Fantastic Member GuiltyPleasure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    people arent responding because there was nothing for the usual suspects to complain about. tchalla was shown favorably and so was the supporting cast. coates didnt give any of his distractors anything to work with this issue.
    Very true, and people read what they want to read. There, a short post.

  14. #9119
    Fantastic Member GuiltyPleasure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    1. yes they both seem to be fully aware of each other's feelings in regard to nakia and they still live each other. his sadness has nothing to do with his feelings for nakia but his guilt in his role in the creation of the galactic empire.

    2. did tchalla cheat? of course not and ororo is completely aware of this even considering her anger and jealousy, which she acknowledges. her primary concern is fully understanding what occurred to him that cause him to change.

    3. from my interpretation of the events within the story their love hasnt ended and it seems they are moving forward with the understanding of his experiences in galatic wakanda.

    4. nakia based upon the story and her words is that they had an affinity for each other but they couldnt explore those feelings because of the "ghost" which was ororo embedded in tchallas mind.

    I agree with your four points here. This was a solid issue, IMO. I'm glad there are people here who actually read the issue and enjoyed it.

  15. #9120
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuiltyPleasure View Post
    Very true, and people read what they want to read. There, a short post.
    i enjoy your posts. dont change anything about it ok!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by GuiltyPleasure View Post
    I agree with your four points here. This was a solid issue, IMO. I'm glad there are people here who actually read the issue and enjoyed it.
    oh yes Coates can do no wrong in my eyes. there were some who tried to cast doubt with what he was doing with nakia but I'm so happy this issue put to bed a lot of the criticism he had received.

    coates is treating ororo like a sex object I didnt like the issue.
    coates is giving storm more development in his own book I didnt like the issue.
    coates is making black panther sad and he is never happy. I didnt like the issue
    coates wrote storm being ok with nakia sleeping with tchalla..

    blah blah blah blah blah....

    well as I mentioned there wasnt much anyone could really complain about with issue considering how well written it was. it's like coates has been reading this forum and knocked down every criticism with a stroke of his pen in this issue. so I'm ready to see where and how this all ends.
    Last edited by butterflykyss; 11-28-2019 at 09:11 PM.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

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