Ororo Munroe: Storm Appreciation 2019

[GuiltyPleasure]

I understand what this article was trying to convey, but I disagree with a few points. I've seen it referenced by a few posters and now this article also calls her High Priestess of Krakoa. I've yet to read it for myself in actual comic unless I missed it. What does that title mean anyway? If she's simply a "minister" of mutant ideology then they can throw it all away.

Nothing about Storm's characterization across Black Panther or Fearless reads as a mutant supremacist. Yes, her loyalties are divided, but Hickman at least writes her as a woman that's willing and able to rise to the occasion. She may have referred to humans as "man" in X-Men, but she did exactly the same thing with T'Challa under Coates. Hickman even left a little nod that Storm is overworking herself. Cyclops noticed she's a bit tired. I choose to look at it as confirmation that our girl is handling business all over the globe. What's even more beautiful is Coates just had Ororo admit to her own ignorance where her understanding of the African American condition was sorely lacking. It took time, but even she came to look deeper in search of a more balanced and nuanced interpretation of whast it means to be both mutant and black. She's now acutely aware of all the communities that look to her in admiration. The mutant supremacist schtick just doesn't fit. It stifles everything she is.

What I love most about this current climate is that what we're witnessing with her inclusion in X-Men/X-Force/Marauders, Fearless and Black Panther is precisely where Yost left her at the end of WAP. I believe Coates has woven a wicked web that ties all of HER mythos together. BECAUSE this Ororo knows the importance of dedicating herself to a thriving mutant, what sense for this same woman to condemn a nation of that took up arms and closed their borders to world that sought to pillage and plunder them like every other country in Africa? If you think about it, it makes her a huge fucking hypocrite. If we're going with the "high priestess" angle (the talking head that regurgitates white mutant supremacy) as her true direction under the new X-regime, then her conflict with T'Challa does seem inevitable and even more so uninspired.

If she's really the self aware, black, female, mutant, goddess with agency then her narrative within the X-Men demands that she acts as the bridge between these two nations. She's the one mutant that understands why both these nations must exist. She's in all of these places that demand her attention because of the different ties they have on her heart. She understands what's at stake for both. She's capable of weighing the pros and cons of both, and she's already committed herself Wakanda and Krakoa. Her mission should not be about picking sides, it should be about her showing everyone a better way.

So much truth here. I, pretty much, ignored the interpretation of this author. You've captured all of my sticking points with the article. The author has put Ororo in so many boxes, as well as labeled her in ways, as you pointed, that haven't been established in the comics. Until it's written that she is High Priestess of Krakoa, then she isn't. Until she is written as being a militant anti-human mutant supremacist, then she isn't. If she is eventually written that way, it would be a gross mischaracterization that would make me sick to my stomach.

There is so much to the Ororo character that could make for a great series, mini or otherwise, that has nothing to do with T'Challa and Wakanda. At the same time, I don't see any reason why that aspect of her life wouldn't be showcased in a solo. But her relationship with T'Challa is only one aspect of her life, just as her being a mutant, a woman, goddess, etc, are all aspects of who she is and could be explored in a solo. I really do think Coates would've done a great job with a Storm solo. Slow pacing (LOL) but still a great job. I do think he "gets" her as a character and has put in the work to read her backstories.

[Jalysia]

Attachment 90716


I wonder what's going on here.

[terrancejameson]

So much truth here. I, pretty much, ignored the interpretation of this author. You've captured all of my sticking points with the article. The author has put Ororo in so many boxes, as well as labeled her in ways, as you pointed, that haven't been established in the comics. Until it's written that she is High Priestess of Krakoa, then she isn't. Until she is written as being a militant anti-human mutant supremacist, then she isn't. If she is eventually written that way, it would be a gross mischaracterization that would make me sick to my stomach.

There is so much to the Ororo character that could make for a great series, mini or otherwise, that has nothing to do with T'Challa and Wakanda. At the same time, I don't see any reason why that aspect of her life wouldn't be showcased in a solo. But her relationship with T'Challa is only one aspect of her life, just as her being a mutant, a woman, goddess, etc, are all aspects of who she is and could be explored in a solo. I really do think Coates would've done a great job with a Storm solo. Slow pacing (LOL) but still a great job. I do think he "gets" her as a character and has put in the work to read her backstories.

I totally felt the author of that article wanted to thrust her into one box instead of letting her labels mesh naturally. I can honestly see why they made the connections they did. I dunno. I just choose to interpret her actions the best way that would appease me as a fan. I personally feel Hickman is trying with Storm. I'm going to give him credit because I personally like the voice and demeanor he sets for her. He's given her awesome feats for me to gloat about from waterbending, floor disintegrating lightning and regulating the power of two unstable mutants. She's flexed like an omega level mutant. But more importantly her voice Carrie's weight. She speaks and people listen. She has a seat at the table. And when Nightcrawler suggested that mutants only lie with mutants, Ororo spoke and made her position clear. That means something to me. I choose to see that as Hickman extending the olive branch while acknowledging her life as a woman of the world, including but not limited to Wakanda. I want to see more, but that's a helluva start to me.

It's very easy for me to associate my understanding Hickman's Storm with the lovely and gracious Hadari Yao as written by Coates. Coates' Storm just revealed a very complex worldview in her conversation with T'Challa. THAT Ororo would absolutely understand the importance of mutant solidarity on Krakoa. I believe she wants the best for mutants. I believe she also wants to see the best in them. Her stance on the quiet council kinda mirror her stance on T'Challa's council as well. Ororo puts the bullshit to the side in order to get down to crucial business with Nakia and the quiet council. There's a lot for me to be excited about. Her unique position between Wakanda and Krakoa could be the launching pad for WAP vol. #2. It's the perfect time.

Hold the phone, we can't stop there. Fearless has reintroduced us to Greg Pak's Storm that ran a foul of Davis Harmon and a US senator. Fearless has given us glimpses of a Storm that stands for sacred lands against government/corporate greed. This is her fucking lands and NO ONE does it like she does. There's so much potential for good stories with her but she really needs a solo or an mini. I still believe the X-books could mention more of her works away from the team. Maybe have Beast mention how she invaded enemy airspace to transport humans and mutants to safety, or stopped a tsunami, or stopped a band or poachers or destroyed chain of human trafficking hubs.

There's so much for her to do to in the MU without even the slight hint of T'Challa. The point is why does it make sense to leave that connection out? It only widens her pool of narrative drawing points. I don't see why Ororo couldn't have gadgets from Beast, Forge and T'Challa. They could all offer up a different dynamic for which to interpret our girl as the goddess she is.

[GuiltyPleasure]

I totally felt the author of that article wanted to thrust her into one box instead of letting her labels mesh naturally. I can honestly see why they made the connections they did. I dunno. I just choose to interpret her actions the best way that would appease me as a fan. I personally feel Hickman is trying with Storm. I'm going to give him credit because I personally like the voice and demeanor he sets for her. He's given her awesome feats for me to gloat about from waterbending, floor disintegrating lightning and regulating the power of two unstable mutants. She's flexed like an omega level mutant. But more importantly her voice Carrie's weight. She speaks and people listen. She has a seat at the table. And when Nightcrawler suggested that mutants only lie with mutants, Ororo spoke and made her position clear. That means something to me. I choose to see that as Hickman extending the olive branch while acknowledging her life as a woman of the world, including but not limited to Wakanda. I want to see more, but that's a helluva start to me.

It's very easy for me to associate my understanding Hickman's Storm with the lovely and gracious Hadari Yao as written by Coates. Coates' Storm just revealed a very complex worldview in her conversation with T'Challa. THAT Ororo would absolutely understand the importance of mutant solidarity on Krakoa. I believe she wants the best for mutants. I believe she also wants to see the best in them. Her stance on the quiet council kinda mirror her stance on T'Challa's council as well. Ororo puts the bullshit to the side in order to get down to crucial business with Nakia and the quiet council. There's a lot for me to be excited about. Her unique position between Wakanda and Krakoa could be the launching pad for WAP vol. #2. It's the perfect time.

Hold the phone, we can't stop there. Fearless has reintroduced us to Greg Pak's Storm that ran a foul of Davis Harmon and a US senator. Fearless has given us glimpses of a Storm that stands for sacred lands against government/corporate greed. This is her fucking lands and NO ONE does it like she does. There's so much potential for good stories with her but she really needs a solo or an mini. I still believe the X-books could mention more of her works away from the team. Maybe have Beast mention how she invaded enemy airspace to transport humans and mutants to safety, or stopped a tsunami, or stopped a band or poachers or destroyed chain of human trafficking hubs.

There's so much for her to do to in the MU without even the slight hint of T'Challa. The point is why does it make sense to leave that connection out? It only widens her pool of narrative drawing points. I don't see why Ororo couldn't have gadgets from Beast, Forge and T'Challa. They could all offer up a different dynamic for which to interpret our girl as the goddess she is.

Again, so much truth.

Attachment 90728

[Wind Rider]

Attachment 90716


I wonder what's going on here.

THis looks interesting. I always loved his work too. A new issue of X-Men? Its weird to not see Logan and Ororo interacting....like at all....since the new X-book launch, despite being extremely close.

[chief12d]

You raise some good points. IMO a greater examination of Storm's connection to the rulers of both nations serves to enhance her narrative.

Coates has it well established that Ororo is quick enough to deduce when T'Challa is lying to her. On that front she's capable of keeping up with the most intelligent man she's ever known. What Coates has also revealed is that T'Challa KNOWS that Xavier lied to Ororo. Her godhead is proof of this. I'm also inclined to believe that T'Challa knows about Magneto threatening ambassadors, Cyclops' ominously mentioning Franklin to his parents, and Xavier sanctioning mutant murderers and terrorists free reign over Krakoa.

Not only does it make very little sense for T'Challa to blindly follow Xavier or his council considering a Wakandan empire grew out of control right under T'Challa's nose. It makes even less sense when one reads Priest's versions of T'Challa and Ororo where she scolds him for walking a path that she sees him becoming like Magneto. Coates has more than covered his bases and left T'Challa with the moral high ground. It's even funnier because under Coates T'Challa has given in to the desire of his people to have a ruling council. Lolololol Shuri may have a stance that Wakanda needs its king. She certainly wasnt the only one to say so. The story shows us that there's still a democratic council in Wakanda, but they're so abysmally out of their depth. Nevertheless, T'Challa cannot be blamed for ignoring a treaty with Krakoa while there's a ruling council. I know many will ignore that to lay problems at his feet tho.

Coates' use of Nakia is also a brilliant move IMO. T'Challa has a Wakandan love interest and he isn't solely pin9ng after Ororo as a puppy dog. I doubt that Storm's mutant love interest would up her usability factor. Did her fling with Wolverine teach us nothing? I know what you meant by offering up a love interest that the X-office has full control over, but doesn't that sound like a boost in popularity and credibility due to her romantic relationship? That's what happened after AvX on through IvX, but most disagree, as is their right. The point is this already happened and we saw what sort of stories were made available to her. Lolololol she was bullied by Medusa, betrayed and belittled by Emma, all while Storm cowered in the corner from cloud.

I disagree that T'Challa and Wakanda are Storm's only way to advance her mythos, but I can't deny that it IS viewed as baggage that her character was saddled with. It doesn't make sense to run from it. The X-writers didn't run from Cyclops as the "terrorist", they didn't run from Emma as the "batshit crazy scorned woman". No, they took the bull by the horns and changed their narrative for the better. I love that Emma is still a business woman all about bankrolling mutant causes. I think its badass that Xavier became the world's richest man surpassing T'Challa pretty much overnight. Ororo needs to be shown making moves on the world stage as well. Fearless hit the right story beats with her without even a mention of Wakanda. The X-books need to match then surpass that bar.

I think you're missing my point though lol. What's in it for T'Challa and the Black Panther mythos to be tied to a woman who kisses Gambit in the midst of their reconciliation in his own book? Where's the benefit and positive optics of a black man of his stature forced into a contrived love triangle, where one 3rd of the dynamic is from a line of comics as volatile and disconnected from his own narrative as the X-books? You yourself have explained that he of course isn't gonna follow the Krakoa status quo, so outside of giving Storm some more connections outside the X-books, there's no real reason for the Black Panther books to associate itself with whatever stories or characters are told by Hickman and company.

Especially given the tendency for X-writers (and their fans) to mischaracterize and cast aspersions on the title character and/or his entire nation. You astutely pointed out that there are those who are gonna blame T'Challa for whatever comes out of the Wakanda-Krakoa relationship, so why would a Black Panther fan wish to integrate him into that narrative on any level, with the primary connecting point being the 1 women he's been romantically involved with in over a decade (with Nakia only coming onto the scene in 2018)? It's a bag of worms the character simply doesn't need to deal with as at the end of the day he's an Avenger and a leading character in the Avengers line of comics. Every panel given to developing his relationship with a character that can be broken up with him at the drop of hat (like AvX), concepts or rogues too closely associated with the X-Men, and commenting on his relationship to Krakoa is wasted because it's superfluous and only opens the character up to attack and mischaracterization.

I maintain my belief that the relationship has run its course and has nothing to offer his character, while Storm's connections are only passively and vaguely mentioned in her primary books, thus not helping her much either. It's unneeded baggage for both characters that limits the potential of one (T'Challa in both a romantic and storytelling sense) and inevitably pigeonholes the other (Storm's lack of meaningful development in the new status quo). If Storm were to ever get another shot at a solo I'd be perfectly fine with the writer focusing almost exclusively on her activities within the new Krakoan status quo and even outside the MU without having to refer to the increasingly stale relationship she has to T'Challa and Wakanda. Hell, he's already in the midst of getting a new (and imo superior) love interest so really all a future writer has to do is erase the goddess stuff and the two have no reason to interact all that often.

[metalclouds]

I love how much we love Storm but y'all with these long ass paragraphs. It hurts my eyes even attempting to read them so I just scan a few sentences and gather what I can from there lol

[stormphoenix]

I love how much we love Storm but y'all with these long ass paragraphs. It hurts my eyes even attempting to read them so I just scan a few sentences and gather what I can from there lol

I just don’t read them.

[butterflykyss]

I understand what this article was trying to convey, but I disagree with a few points. I've seen it referenced by a few posters and now this article also calls her High Priestess of Krakoa. I've yet to read it for myself in actual comic unless I missed it. What does that title mean anyway? If she's simply a "minister" of mutant ideology then they can throw it all away.

Nothing about Storm's characterization across Black Panther or Fearless reads as a mutant supremacist. Yes, her loyalties are divided, but Hickman at least writes her as a woman that's willing and able to rise to the occasion. She may have referred to humans as "man" in X-Men, but she did exactly the same thing with T'Challa under Coates. Hickman even left a little nod that Storm is overworking herself. Cyclops noticed she's a bit tired. I choose to look at it as confirmation that our girl is handling business all over the globe. What's even more beautiful is Coates just had Ororo admit to her own ignorance where her understanding of the African American condition was sorely lacking. It took time, but even she came to look deeper in search of a more balanced and nuanced interpretation of whast it means to be both mutant and black. She's now acutely aware of all the communities that look to her in admiration. The mutant supremacist schtick just doesn't fit. It stifles everything she is.

What I love most about this current climate is that what we're witnessing with her inclusion in X-Men/X-Force/Marauders, Fearless and Black Panther is precisely where Yost left her at the end of WAP. I believe Coates has woven a wicked web that ties all of HER mythos together. BECAUSE this Ororo knows the importance of dedicating herself to a thriving mutant, what sense for this same woman to condemn a nation of that took up arms and closed their borders to world that sought to pillage and plunder them like every other country in Africa? If you think about it, it makes her a huge fucking hypocrite. If we're going with the "high priestess" angle (the talking head that regurgitates white mutant supremacy) as her true direction under the new X-regime, then her conflict with T'Challa does seem inevitable and even more so uninspired.

If she's really the self aware, black, female, mutant, goddess with agency then her narrative within the X-Men demands that she acts as the bridge between these two nations. She's the one mutant that understands why both these nations must exist. She's in all of these places that demand her attention because of the different ties they have on her heart. She understands what's at stake for both. She's capable of weighing the pros and cons of both, and she's already committed herself Wakanda and Krakoa. Her mission should not be about picking sides, it should be about her showing everyone a better way.

1. Yes I have never recall any issue where she was entitled as the official "high priestess" of Krakoa. If high priestess involves what we have seen in mauraders I would pass on that title.

2. I completely agree with all your points in paragraph two.

3. I also agree here. In WAP Ororo declared she can be both xmen and a queen as she has no limits. Her being a high priestess promoting a society of only mutants would go against everything she has ever been. as much as the stories in the 90s looked to make her just a mutant she has always been much more. her fighting for all humanity, both mutant and human alike, is what I hope she continues to do.

4. Yassss bish yasssss to everything here especially that last line!! She most certainly should be showing everyone a better way!!!

[butterflykyss]

As a black man it sucks to see Storm fall so low and be a footnote in the narrative development of the X-books. There are writers and fans who love Storm to be present, but not actually heard or driving the direction of the franchise in the compelling, layered manner that her white counterparts like Cyclops and Wolverine do. She’s a token and that’s probably the role she’ll continue to play until the MCU forces editorial to be more substantial like it did with BP himself.

But as a Black Panther fan I don’t give a damn because it’s not the responsibility of books outside the X-office to elevate or position her as a prominent player within the comics. From now until the end of time Storm will be an X-Man first so it falls to writers and fans invested in that mythos to push the character in such a way that she can be central within the books where she predominantly appears in. No amount of flowery praises by Coates, restructuring of the Wakandan pantheon, or references in comics like AoW can do that.

I completely agree that since her return to the X-office she’s been done dirty and been given empty leadership positions with bare bones characterization. I fully expect that continue within Marauders (which I’m on the verge of dropping anyway). But I fail to see how Storm’s languishing position within the X-Men line intersects with T’Challa as a leading Avenger who frankly doesn’t need her as a love interest.

Comics aren’t charities and outside this dubious “power couple” thing Marvel is trying to push them as, on basically every metric it’s better for BP as a character to have a love interest (or several like his white counterparts) from his own mythos. In terms of increasing his accessibility to new readers, making him a better power fantasy, etc. there’s absolutely no benefit in 2019 to T’Challa being singularly focused on a played out relationship from the early 2000s. It may be great for Storm fans as it gives them some hope she can rise from the X-ghetto but it hurts the long term success of the BP franchise. If Marvel truly wanted both characters to ascend they’d break them up and build both characters independent of one another.

1. agreed with everything here. how kitty has a larger stake in the direction of mutantkind makes zero sense unless you take into account the point you made. she is a token and this is why I domt understand her fans who give coates so a hard time. she has had a couple of cute moments in the post Hickman xmen lore but lets not ignore the facts. scott, emma, Xavier, magneto, kitty, and logan/Psylocke (to a degree) are driving the stories of mutantkind and they are all white.

2. I dont entirely agree with your points here. stories like fearless and even what has occurred on black panther demonstrate she can have a life beyond being just an xman. what is however a hurdle is ensuring that stories outside of the xworld that give her more development beyond being a token actually isnt ignored by the xoffices. the xoffices certainly come across like thise children who dont care about a discarded toy until they see another child playing with it. Moreover, fans have pushed for her to have more of a presence in the xmen but that yielded her being headmistress who placed the school in limbo, a woman afraid to go to war to save her people and a weather manipulator who was ineffective against a cloud.

3. I dont think Tchalla needs ororo as a love interest but there are a lot of fans who want to see this work. It's why fans hope Ororo make an appearance in BP2. It is why fans were happy when Coates put them back together. Nevertheless, I agree that Mauraders will continue to be "bare bone characterization" that is the perfect description. Nothing I've read from that book would indicate we will get anything other than that.

4. I,think this point you have made looks at their interaction from lens of the past versus ones that look,to move forward. Once mutants are integrated into the MCU I most certainly see there being more synergy across both offices. For fans of solely his mythos I thin you have a point but there are many who are a fan of both who would like to see them work as couple. If BP2 does introduce her I expect this desire to only intensify.

[BlkGldBlu]

I just don’t read them.

Depending om the convo i read ' but yeah mostly skim through.

If my post is going to end up lengthy i try to break it up in post or blocks
Easier on the eyes

[butterflykyss]

Yeah I would agree. Ranking her against X-Men TAS and Evo (hell even anime) I would rank WatX Storm the lowest. She had a few cool moments but lacked in the agency, power (though she had a few cool power moments) and presence.



She is gorgeous! It has been a few years since I went to St Michaels and St Phillips to see my family.





Agreed. I liked that we got some good focus on Bishop, Polaris & Marrow but Storm & Cyclops were sacrificed to push Wolverine - which was an epic fail. I like Logan but he is Storm or Cyclops when it comes to leadership, agency or vision.


I think this is interesting and I agree with these options for solos (or at least a 12 issue mini each). These story concepts are well thought out. With respect to Storm I love the idea of her being the High Priestess of Krakoa, and taking on the role of in an inspirational spiritual leader to guide the emotional and spiritual healing of mutants, and setting the moral and ethical standards for how they should engage with the world. I can see how her unique position can present multiple conflicts from within and outside of Krakoa, specifically Wakanda and the hero community in general that holds her in high esteem. I don’t see her trying to overthrow Wakanda (or any nation for that matter) to push Krakoa’s agenda. I’d only see her something like that against nations who oppress their people (human or mutant).



100% agreed.



Agreed. Percy was wielding Storm like a blade in X-Force. Nice strategic cuts with a scalpel with just a few lines. Part of me would love her to join that cast (all of Summer house) and that be her primary book.

yes I dont see that either. also as cool as being high priestess sounds seeing that excalibur is that magic book i highly doubt ororo holds such a title considering when isnt innrge book. apocakysoe seems more like the high priest of krakoa than ororo honestly.

So much truth here. I, pretty much, ignored the interpretation of this author. You've captured all of my sticking points with the article. The author has put Ororo in so many boxes, as well as labeled her in ways, as you pointed, that haven't been established in the comics. Until it's written that she is High Priestess of Krakoa, then she isn't. Until she is written as being a militant anti-human mutant supremacist, then she isn't. If she is eventually written that way, it would be a gross mischaracterization that would make me sick to my stomach.

There is so much to the Ororo character that could make for a great series, mini or otherwise, that has nothing to do with T'Challa and Wakanda. At the same time, I don't see any reason why that aspect of her life wouldn't be showcased in a solo. But her relationship with T'Challa is only one aspect of her life, just as her being a mutant, a woman, goddess, etc, are all aspects of who she is and could be explored in a solo. I really do think Coates would've done a great job with a Storm solo. Slow pacing (LOL) but still a great job. I do think he "gets" her as a character and has put in the work to read her backstories.

agreed to all of this. mu only complaint with Coates is that I wish he would be a bit more creativevwuth her use of powers. outside goddess storm let's see her manipulate radiation or manipulate pressure to crush ships.

Attachment 90716


I wonder what's going on here.

thanks for sharing. what book is thisvsupposee to be, xmen?

I totally felt the author of that article wanted to thrust her into one box instead of letting her labels mesh naturally. I can honestly see why they made the connections they did. I dunno. I just choose to interpret her actions the best way that would appease me as a fan. I personally feel Hickman is trying with Storm. I'm going to give him credit because I personally like the voice and demeanor he sets for her. He's given her awesome feats for me to gloat about from waterbending, floor disintegrating lightning and regulating the power of two unstable mutants. She's flexed like an omega level mutant. But more importantly her voice Carrie's weight. She speaks and people listen. She has a seat at the table. And when Nightcrawler suggested that mutants only lie with mutants, Ororo spoke and made her position clear. That means something to me. I choose to see that as Hickman extending the olive branch while acknowledging her life as a woman of the world, including but not limited to Wakanda. I want to see more, but that's a helluva start to me.

It's very easy for me to associate my understanding Hickman's Storm with the lovely and gracious Hadari Yao as written by Coates. Coates' Storm just revealed a very complex worldview in her conversation with T'Challa. THAT Ororo would absolutely understand the importance of mutant solidarity on Krakoa. I believe she wants the best for mutants. I believe she also wants to see the best in them. Her stance on the quiet council kinda mirror her stance on T'Challa's council as well. Ororo puts the bullshit to the side in order to get down to crucial business with Nakia and the quiet council. There's a lot for me to be excited about. Her unique position between Wakanda and Krakoa could be the launching pad for WAP vol. #2. It's the perfect time.

Hold the phone, we can't stop there. Fearless has reintroduced us to Greg Pak's Storm that ran a foul of Davis Harmon and a US senator. Fearless has given us glimpses of a Storm that stands for sacred lands against government/corporate greed. This is her fucking lands and NO ONE does it like she does. There's so much potential for good stories with her but she really needs a solo or an mini. I still believe the X-books could mention more of her works away from the team. Maybe have Beast mention how she invaded enemy airspace to transport humans and mutants to safety, or stopped a tsunami, or stopped a band or poachers or destroyed chain of human trafficking hubs.

There's so much for her to do to in the MU without even the slight hint of T'Challa. The point is why does it make sense to leave that connection out? It only widens her pool of narrative drawing points. I don't see why Ororo couldn't have gadgets from Beast, Forge and T'Challa. They could all offer up a different dynamic for which to interpret our girl as the goddess she is.

this post is why I freaking love you so much!@ 100% truth!

THis looks interesting. I always loved his work too. A new issue of X-Men? Its weird to not see Logan and Ororo interacting....like at all....since the new X-book launch, despite being extremely close.

yea that is odd. but I cant say I'm surprised. you know her entire priority is currently running errands for kitty.

[butterflykyss]

so this thread will likely be closing with the new year . it didnt seem likely at first but this thread closing the most popular xthread most certainly is treat. that said, what was the highlight of this year for you as it relates to ororo?

[Londo Bellian]

Possibly "Fearless." My gratitude to the forum regular who lambasted me for whining about Krakoa being a staging ground for the final mutant-human war that will end with the extinction of sapiens, then recommended I read the mini which "proves" that mutants and humans are (still) not (yet) in final genocide mode. Good dynamics with Sue and Carol (more for the former than the latter), and very understanding to the still un-powered Melody Guthrie.

[terrancejameson]

I think you're missing my point though lol. What's in it for T'Challa and the Black Panther mythos to be tied to a woman who kisses Gambit in the midst of their reconciliation in his own book? Where's the benefit and positive optics of a black man of his stature forced into a contrived love triangle, where one 3rd of the dynamic is from a line of comics as volatile and disconnected from his own narrative as the X-books? You yourself have explained that he of course isn't gonna follow the Krakoa status quo, so outside of giving Storm some more connections outside the X-books, there's no real reason for the Black Panther books to associate itself with whatever stories or characters are told by Hickman and company.

Especially given the tendency for X-writers (and their fans) to mischaracterize and cast aspersions on the title character and/or his entire nation. You astutely pointed out that there are those who are gonna blame T'Challa for whatever comes out of the Wakanda-Krakoa relationship, so why would a Black Panther fan wish to integrate him into that narrative on any level, with the primary connecting point being the 1 women he's been romantically involved with in over a decade (with Nakia only coming onto the scene in 2018)? It's a bag of worms the character simply doesn't need to deal with as at the end of the day he's an Avenger and a leading character in the Avengers line of comics. Every panel given to developing his relationship with a character that can be broken up with him at the drop of hat (like AvX), concepts or rogues too closely associated with the X-Men, and commenting on his relationship to Krakoa is wasted because it's superfluous and only opens the character up to attack and mischaracterization.

I maintain my belief that the relationship has run its course and has nothing to offer his character, while Storm's connections are only passively and vaguely mentioned in her primary books, thus not helping her much either. It's unneeded baggage for both characters that limits the potential of one (T'Challa in both a romantic and storytelling sense) and inevitably pigeonholes the other (Storm's lack of meaningful development in the new status quo). If Storm were to ever get another shot at a solo I'd be perfectly fine with the writer focusing almost exclusively on her activities within the new Krakoan status quo and even outside the MU without having to refer to the increasingly stale relationship she has to T'Challa and Wakanda. Hell, he's already in the midst of getting a new (and imo superior) love interest so really all a future writer has to do is erase the goddess stuff and the two have no reason to interact all that often.

I think you misinterpreted the tone of my post. I am fully aware that you're against them as a couple or even associates. That's precisely why I responded the way I did. I disagree with literally every single detractor and excuse raised as proof of why T'Challa and Ororo shouldn't or couldn't be shown in a respectful and loving manner. I disagree and pushback.

As it stands Coates has left T'Challa on the more informed side of this new equation regarding Krakoa and the future of mutantkind. He's winning. I could run you down a whole list, but let's start with some of the things you already admitted, shall we?

What about "given the fact that Wakanda is for all intents and purposes the strongest human nation in the MU. Their gods returned after being missing since ANAD, they’re in the process of claiming an intergalactic mirror of itself with control of 5 galaxies, T’Challa is leading the Avengers, they control the world’s premier intelligence network/superhuman response team in the AoW (replacing SHIELD)" isn't all of this true? Have we been reading the same solo? T'Challa gave everyone what they wanted and manipulated his way back into power. Think I'm lying? He gave into the desires of his people and gave them a democracy. The council is in place and the world knows Wakanda is nothing without its king. He gave the Dora's what they wanted and now they're loyal to the throne like nothing happened. He even gave into Storm. And look at where you just place his standing within the MU. Sounds like a BLACK MAN with fucking swag.

T'Challa is ahead of the wave in more ways than one. Hickman has breathed new life in the X-books by turning Krakoa into mutant Wakanda and you don't even see it. People are actually elevated over a new angle to bring mutants into the MCU. They haven't been shy about adopting all of Hickman's ideas in anticipation. Hickman's Krakoa is Coogler's Wakanda for mutants as Black Panther comes to a close. Mutants have drugs instead of vibranium. Even on the front of mutant worshipping cult like factions isn't even new. It was introduced by Coates in a major way. Hadari Yao as a narrative is exactly at play without touching on it. T'Challa doesn't have to prove he's down for mutant rights. He has a BLACK mutant man as his right hand and a BLACK mutant goddess as his right. There's no way he's losing ground to a smear campaign to portray him as harboring anti mutant sentiment. His bases are covered. T'Challa is winning by a mile.

I'm well aware that people will disagree. I know that many gripes will be aired about both their trajectories being stifled because of their shared history. Some claim the marriage did her a disservice then, and some will say the current relationship does neither of them any favors now. I disagree because it all sounds like a barrel of trash truck juice.

Coates has also left enough wiggle room to give X-writers an Avenue to use her with her admission that she claims both countries as her own. She's a mutant dignitary of sorts with a seat on the quiet council. She's a goddess with a meager following of faithfuls. And she's in a unique position discuss politics with the head of the most advanced human nation on earth. Ororo is holding a stacked deck of playable cards. She's winning all on her own. Coates is not the only writer building her up. She's on the cusp of everything monumental in the X-books right now and most don't even recognize it because they don't want see it. There are tons of parallels to be drawn between Wakanda and Krakoa and there simply isn't any other mutant worthy of highlighting those similarities.

As a last question: would you as an ardent supporter of T'Challa and Wakanda, would you really have been ok with Wakanda taking Krakoan relief pharmaceuticals as a handout? I could take that question over to his thread if that's better for you.