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  1. #511
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Things Fall Apart View Post
    You realize they can update and power up characters right?
    Hell, or just give the villain a niche.

    They can both have death related powers with different niches.
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  2. #512
    Genesis of A Nemesis KOSLOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Hell, or just give the villain a niche.

    They can both have death related powers with different niches.
    Just have it so that T'challa rules the spirits, but Macabre reanimates the flesh.

    I'd also give Macabre King Cadaver's powers. I don't really need to see him return.
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  3. #513
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Things Fall Apart View Post
    Just have it so that T'challa rules the spirits, but Macabre reanimates the flesh.

    I'd also give Macabre King Cadaver's powers. I don't really need to see him return.
    Yeah, but even if Macabre reanimates the flesh, the point being both Shuri (in Wakanda at least) and T'Challa can control zombies. So they have the ability to counter the one thing Macabre can do. So to make him a credible threat against T'Challa now, they're going to have to do a lot more.

    Unless of course they take away Shuri's powers, and T'Challa magically lost the ability to control zombies like he did in Secret Wars. You can strip the good guys of their abilities to make the villains more credible threats. But it's still easier to just upgrade the villain more.,

  4. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    So a couple of stuff

    - I don't get the weird fear of using major properties with Black Panther. He is prime time player his rogue gallery is a reflection of that means Baron Zemo, Dr Doom, Red Skull,Norman Osborn, Magneto,Thanos,Galactus and even Namor are in play along with his regular group and being that his regular group is weak. It is good he can lean on the shared universe.

    - After seeing what they with Killmonger and Mbaku there is no doubt in my mind that Tetu,Achebe, King Cadaver or whoever they use will be elevated to major villain BUT Dr Doom is probably the best villain(top 5 certainly) in all of comics no you are not making a villain as impressive as Dr Doom.

    - After what has happened to Dr Doom in the last two FF films, I think we can pass on Dr Doom having to be introduced in the FF they need to rely on the parts of their gallery.Keeping it real Dr Doom has been a better Iron Man or Black Panther villain than FF villian at times. Dr Doom and Namor make really good antagonist for Black Panther because of the contrast them being leaders of countries and kingdom plus both have a really good story versus Black Panther. Basically they have become extended members of BP rogue's gallery.

    I don't get it a Superman film would use Darkseid who is New Gods villains with no issue. Black Panther using Dr Doom is some sort of case on Black Panther not being able stand on his own feet? It doesn't make any sense if they have chance to use Dr Doom and tell a version of Doomwar then yeah do it. Because it would be a good movie for sure. They don't have tweak and build up some villain they approach BP2 as the biggest spectacle it can possible be which is good approach imo. It is not matter of not being able to stand on his feet it matter presenting enemies and challenges worthy on the level of hero that he is now. Doomwar would be a big story and it would be hard to find a story another villian that can match it for BP in scope. For the last 10 years Namor has probably been the biggest Black Panther villain no character has probably cause him more pain and flooding Wakanda was huge moment. I could understand if people was talking about using Red Skull or Magneto but it is not that "outside villains" being mention actually have stories with BP.
    When you don't understand racism and how it works everything you think you know will just confuse you. Doom is trash and does not need to be in Black Panther 2. Black Panther is way bigger than Doom will ever be now. Anything Ryan Coogler comes up with will be better than Doom.

  5. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    A Black Panther sequel DOES NOT need a major Marvel villain/antagonist like Namor or Doom to be hyped. The first one didn't need them and barely had any connection to the MCU or Infinity War storyline so why does a sequel actually need one?

    You know what? A part of me thinks some MCU and superhero movie fanboys felt alienated by the first film. Here's a superhero movie within the MCU that not only is very separated from the larger MCU narrative, but unashamedly featured different kinds of blackness in Afrofuturism, racial politics, cultures from the African and black diaspora etc. These people who are probably not black may have been led to feel Black Panther wasn't for them the way Captain America and Iron Man movies were (because they were part of the norm because they featured mostly white casts and American or Western culture).

    Now all of a sudden for a sequel to a movie that boasted a 90% black cast and the MCU's first major (if not ONLY) black villain and proved to be part of the film's success and appeal, people want Namor and Doom (characters who aren't black) and suddenly people want a Black Panther movie to have a massive scale as if the big final battle wasn't the most criticised aspect of the first film.

    You can't tell me it isn't shady. I want none of it. And some fantasy nation vs nation war doesn't sound like Coogler at all.
    Yea, i guess it's something new called racism.

  6. #516

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr MajestiK View Post
    Writing stories around a character as intriguing as T'Challa, his supporting characters, the Wakandan nation and the super villains bent on breaking T'Challa and Wakanda, shouldn't be that hard.

    It only becomes difficult when a writer chooses to hamstring his or her story writing abilities by way of overly convoluted storytelling and an utter lack of respect for pre-existing characterisation and established continuity.

    Much noise is made about the pedigree of T'Challa's core villains but very few choose to acknowledge the fact that villains wre only as good s the writers who choose to develop them.

    Dr Doom didn't get to be a fan favourite (for some) by accident.

    A plethora of writers have now key hero worshipped Doom to rockstar status over the last few decades.

    There's no reason why T'Challa's rogues gallery should remain underdeveloped and disregarded ad infinitum in favour of foisting other mainstream villains onto the BP mythos.
    for the movies, there's no excuse not to do total revamps of the various "in-universe" Black Panther villains- from the known to the obscure, all sorts of new things can be done with them. Why not?
    Moses Magnum, Macabre, Venomm, Zanda, the list goes on.

  7. #517
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goku200 View Post
    When you don't understand racism and how it works everything you think you know will just confuse you. Doom is trash and does not need to be in Black Panther 2. Black Panther is way bigger than Doom will ever be now. Anything Ryan Coogler comes up with will be better than Doom.
    Hudlin ended up using Doom though when he wanted a big bad who eould actually put T'Challa down for a bit. So while I inherently agree T'Challa doesn't need to use Doom (IMO Doom should ne used more like Thanos in that hes not just amy one characters rogue), if Coogler were to hypocritically decide to use him like Hudlin did, I don't think there's anything unnecessarily wrong with it. Its just a fun match up.

  8. #518
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Planner View Post
    I can understand the fuzz behind the film,but it certainly had it's flaws and tends to be overrated in some critics. But as someone who like T'challa as a character,it was a good film and a nice depart from the regular MCU formula.Hell, give me more Black Panther type of films over Guardians of the Galaxy.
    You can say the same thing about The Dark Knight, which had just as silly if not more silly 3rd half, the joker had almost as much screen time as Batman, he had nigh omniscience, and the whole Harvey thing at the end.. yet that gets praised to high heavens as the best comic book movie of all time, yet when BP comes in abd is bigger then Bats and Bond, and is one of 3 movies in Us domestic box office history to hit 700 mil? The excuses start flying.

    Abd don't get me wrong, I really liked TDK too, but Ima be real here when people try to go after BP for not being perfect (no movie is)

  9. #519
    Genesis of A Nemesis KOSLOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    You can say the same thing about The Dark Knight, which had just as silly if not more silly 3rd half, the joker had almost as much screen time as Batman, he had nigh omniscience, and the whole Harvey thing at the end.. yet that gets praised to high heavens as the best comic book movie of all time, yet when BP comes in abd is bigger then Bats and Bond, and is one of 3 movies in Us domestic box office history to hit 700 mil? The excuses start flying.

    Abd don't get me wrong, I really liked TDK too, but Ima be real here when people try to go after BP for not being perfect (no movie is)
    To this day I still don't get the appeal. I've seen TDK once, and I walked away feeling pretty "meh" about it.
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  10. #520
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    BP 8 is solid T'challa character work. Shows why he is a bit different than the other Marvel kings... he has a heart. And why he generally is the only pure heroic king.

    BP 8 also shows that this story is going to be super rushed at the end. It added another element to the story 8 issues in.... it is one more thing Coates has to wrap up. Bizarre choice.

    Unfortunately, I think this might has closed the door on the nuNakia stuff a bit. IDK, we will see.
    agreed with your opening statement. it was a very touching and moving story. I was glad to see tchalla chose to do the right thing for those who needed him most.
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  11. #521
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Yeah, but even if Macabre reanimates the flesh, the point being both Shuri (in Wakanda at least) and T'Challa can control zombies. So they have the ability to counter the one thing Macabre can do. So to make him a credible threat against T'Challa now, they're going to have to do a lot more.

    Unless of course they take away Shuri's powers, and T'Challa magically lost the ability to control zombies like he did in Secret Wars. You can strip the good guys of their abilities to make the villains more credible threats. But it's still easier to just upgrade the villain more.,
    Except T'Challa nor Shuri have KoTD powers in the mcu so it's a moot point, if we are talking comics there Are ways around it. Hell you could have Baron's power overpower both T'Challa and Shuris so that then summoning the dead leads to more allies for Baron. Theres a million ways to make it work, it take imagination and not being afraid to actually make villains good

  12. #522
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Double post

  13. #523
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Except T'Challa nor Shuri have KoTD powers in the mcu so it's a moot point, if we are talking comics there Are ways around it. Hell you could have Baron's power overpower both T'Challa and Shuris so that then summoning the dead leads to more allies for Baron. Theres a million ways to make it work, it take imagination and not being afraid to actually make villains good
    Post I was responding to said Macabre plays into T'Challas king of the dead thung, so presumably we were talking comics.

    But yes, in can be a simple matter of the Barons powers overpowering T'Challas. Tchalla only used this power once, so its easy enough to buy he's not terribly proficient at it. Kings don't necessarily out rank Barons in this case.

    One time he used it Namor arguably helped a little.

  14. #524
    Extraordinary Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    I have to say, I didn't love the art as much in this issue. I was OK with the artist change at first, but there were some iffy moments for me.

    Overall, the story was a bit brisk but it was enjoyable. This was eight so there should be four left, right?
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  15. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Hell, or just give the villain a niche.

    They can both have death related powers with different niches.
    I think villains need depth more than a niche. Something that lets us see them as human, so that we can suspend disbelief with regards to whether or not they will win.

    That's how guys like Deadshot and Deathstroke manage to keep their cred, while Deadline and Bolt get left in the dust.

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