Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[Ezyo1000]

Once again with Fantastic Four they have been leaning on Dr Doom as the villian in every movie they have so far, Yes Dr Doom is their Big villian but if they can't pull off a movie without him they shouldn't exist and beyond that Dr Doom has become a Marvel villian in general and Avengers, Iron Man and yes Black Panther have just much claim on him. FF needs to build up to Dr Doom, It is not the worse idea for Doom to show up somewhere else first. And yeah Doomwar is good story ,It is good outline to work with in the same way Ragnarok and Planet Hulk are where good outlines for a Marvel movie. To be clear I am not saying that Dr Doom has to be in BP2 , I am just saying it is not a bad idea. If Dr Doom should show up anywhere first it is in his own dam movie because he is that good of a character.

Doom war is a garbage story. It was basically "Doom outsmarts T'Challa, abd the marvel heroes and gets off the hook with a slap on the wrist" while T'Challa is worse for wear after the event. It is bot a good story. Mayberry was fanboying so hard that really the only thing Doom lost was money, not his own soldiers, he didn't get the beat down of a lifetime, nothing. Killed S'Yan, got oadt bast, took over Wakanda, beat the hell out of Tchalla and forced him to make Vibranium inert, and got a thank you for the ass whooping from him as well.

So tell me, how do you adapt that to the mcu? So much would have to be changed to make it not isht. Black panther villains need the revamp because they are interesting and have potential, and they are CONTROLLED
by the BP mythos. I guarantee all these folks saying Doom or Namor need to be used would be up in arms when The logical conclusion happened and those characters die. Either they die or you've assassinated the BP mythos for not having T'Challa do what is necessary and letting them get off

[MindofShadow]

Mention Doom.

Suddenly, people show up talking about how much they love doom. Of course, they love t'challa too but Doom is bae



How many more characters does the MCU have to use before people realize how "good of a character" they are in the comics barely matters?

A lot of villains get watered down because they are good for one story and then the comics have to drag it out for 100 years. So a "good villain" just means they can be sustained by editorial screwery. Like Klaw. Great concept, great powerset... pretty much good for 1-3 stories. Gets ruined by the fact he keeps popping up constantly over the decades. Like M'baku... great concept, makes perfect sense.... for about 2 stories tops. Gets ruined by joining random villain groups and being dressed like a monkey lol.

But in the MCU... you only need one story with a villain. So all you need is a good core concept for the character and some MCU magic and you are good to go.

If Doom is such a great character, such a great villain, to the point where WE HAVE TO USE HIM OMG!!! NOW! BUILD HIM UP!!!!.... how come he is 0/3 in movies right now lol?

I have to say, I didn't love the art as much in this issue. I was OK with the artist change at first, but there were some iffy moments for me.

Overall, the story was a bit brisk but it was enjoyable. This was eight so there should be four left, right?

The art is no Acuna. Big disappointment. It was passable last week but was very "meh" this time around.

Yes, 4 more to go. One likely being an epilogue. A lot of stuff has to be wrapped up in 4 issues. I am not optimistic.

I think villains need depth more than a niche. Something that lets us see them as human, so that we can suspend disbelief with regards to whether or not they will win.

Depth is what the story is for?

Why people acting like some of us just want Baron or Solomon Prey thrown in a couple panel with some explosions around lol?

Well that was another waste of an issue. No plot, no movement, just filler.

Take out goon fights and this entire season so far is 25 issues long lol

Read the last infinity wars issue. The Warped hereos still exist in a universe inside the soul stone. So more Ghost Panther adventures await. Lol

Guess Marvel is taking out insurance in case readers like any of them.

[KOSLOX]

I think villains need depth more than a niche. Something that lets us see them as human, so that we can suspend disbelief with regards to whether or not they will win.

That's how guys like Deadshot and Deathstroke manage to keep their cred, while Deadline and Bolt get left in the dust.

Have Baron be descendant of a fallen tribe of Wakanda.

Make it somewhat like the lost sector in Green Lantern. His tribe could have tried to rise up against an ancient king and were nearly exterminated either by misunderstanding or show of force.

Because the fallen Wakandan rebelled they were erased from Wakandan history and disavowed, thus T'challa has no jurisdiction over them. Macabre lays claim to the dead of that tribe and any people who are ancestrally linked.

Also have him lead a secret sect of new believers.

[Yaw]

Part of the problem here is language. BP villains do not need to be "revamped" for the MCU, they (like all characters) need to be "adapted." Movies are a different medium. All comic book characters need to be ADAPTED for movies. As mentioned before, the great Dr. Doom has been in movies before and in each one his adaptation was TRASH. Therefore no we do not need a Doom in BP movie. We can have BP villains ADAPTED for the movie screen just fine.

And yeah Doomwar was trash...

[Blind Wedjat]

I think another issue is that frankly Doom's cultural impact is really being overblown a bit (by his fans).

Doom is considered to be one of the greatest villains of the comic book medium...by those in the comic book fandom, and hardly by the general public. We all know the effect movies have (especially good and popular movies like MCU ones) can have on the minds of everyone inside and outside the fandom. To those of us in the fandom, Doom might be close to, equal to, or even greater than Thanos.

You think now, after Infinity War, people feel the same way? You think if you tell those that were hyped for Black Panther, went to see it and loved it, that the follow up to Killmonger is that guy from those shitty and dated Fantastic Four movies? You think that's gonna get them, the general public, the ones that matter more than us nerds, excited?

It's not happening. If the reason for adding Doom is that he's so special and the franchise needs him for excitement, then people are simply mistaken. The general audience would rather have an unknown (black) villain played by an up-and-coming (black) actor/actress or iconic (black) actor with blank slate that Coogler and Marvel can work their magic on, than a guy who has baggage.

And really, when Doom does come to the MCU, I can bet Feige's number one priority for that character would be fixing everything FOX did wrong to make him great again. Quite frankly, I don't want a Black Panther sequel to in part exist just to right another studio's wrongs and elevate another character not named T'Challa, the Black Panther.

[MindofShadow]

I think another issue is that frankly Doom's cultural impact is really being overblown a bit (by his fans).

Doom is considered to be one of the greatest villains of the comic book medium...by those in the comic book fandom, and hardly by the general public. We all know the effect movies have (especially good and popular movies like MCU ones) can have on the minds of everyone inside and outside the fandom. To those of us in the fandom, Doom might be close to, equal to, or even greater than Thanos.

You think now, after Infinity War, people feel the same way? You think if you tell those that were hyped for Black Panther, went to see it and loved it, that the follow up to Killmonger is that guy from those shitty and dated Fantastic Four movies? You think that's gonna get them, the general public, the ones that matter more than us nerds, excited?

It's not happening. If the reason for adding Doom is that he's so special and the franchise needs him for excitement, then people are simply mistaken. The general audience would rather have an unknown (black) villain played by an up-and-coming (black) actor/actress or iconic (black) actor with blank slate that Coogler and Marvel can work their magic on, than a guy who has baggage.

And really, when Doom does come to the MCU, I can bet Feige's number one priority for that character would be fixing everything FOX did wrong to make him great again. Quite frankly, I don't want a Black Panther sequel to in part exist just to right another studio's wrongs and elevate another character not named T'Challa, the Black Panther.

Darth Vader stole Dooms thing decades ago anyway

I'll go to bat for Namor the villain in the MCU but Doom can F off

[XPac]

I think another issue is that frankly Doom's cultural impact is really being overblown a bit (by his fans).

Doom is considered to be one of the greatest villains of the comic book medium...by those in the comic book fandom, and hardly by the general public. We all know the effect movies have (especially good and popular movies like MCU ones) can have on the minds of everyone inside and outside the fandom. To those of us in the fandom, Doom might be close to, equal to, or even greater than Thanos.

You think now, after Infinity War, people feel the same way? You think if you tell those that were hyped for Black Panther, went to see it and loved it, that the follow up to Killmonger is that guy from those shitty and dated Fantastic Four movies? You think that's gonna get them, the general public, the ones that matter more than us nerds, excited?

It's not happening. If the reason for adding Doom is that he's so special and the franchise needs him for excitement, then people are simply mistaken. The general audience would rather have an unknown (black) villain played by an up-and-coming (black) actor/actress or iconic (black) actor with blank slate that Coogler and Marvel can work their magic on, than a guy who has baggage.

And really, when Doom does come to the MCU, I can bet Feige's number one priority for that character would be fixing everything FOX did wrong to make him great again. Quite frankly, I don't want a Black Panther sequel to in part exist just to right another studio's wrongs and elevate another character not named T'Challa, the Black Panther.

Honestly I think people are overthinking this issue.

IF Doom is used as the antagonist in the BP movie (and there's no reason to think he will at this point), it won't be out of any need. it'll simply be because Coogler wants to tell a story with Doom. Which is perfectly fine if that's the case. But if Doom isn't used, then he's not used and that's that.

Marvel has done a very good job handling thus far, so I don't think we have anything to worry about either way.

[XPac]

Doom war is a garbage story. It was basically "Doom outsmarts T'Challa, abd the marvel heroes and gets off the hook with a slap on the wrist" while T'Challa is worse for wear after the event. It is bot a good story. Mayberry was fanboying so hard that really the only thing Doom lost was money, not his own soldiers, he didn't get the beat down of a lifetime, nothing. Killed S'Yan, got oadt bast, took over Wakanda, beat the hell out of Tchalla and forced him to make Vibranium inert, and got a thank you for the ass whooping from him as well.

So tell me, how do you adapt that to the mcu? So much would have to be changed to make it not isht. Black panther villains need the revamp because they are interesting and have potential, and they are CONTROLLED
by the BP mythos. I guarantee all these folks saying Doom or Namor need to be used would be up in arms when The logical conclusion happened and those characters die. Either they die or you've assassinated the BP mythos for not having T'Challa do what is necessary and letting them get off

T'Challa didn't end up killing Zemo, and was willing to allow Killmonger to live ... so MCU T'Challa isn't above showing mercy.

But the nice thing about Doom is you actually can "kill" him because you can just say it's a Doombot. I imagine that's the biggest change they would have to make if the did some sort of Doom War adaption. They can't just have them walk away from Doom after shutting down the vibranium. That would be too anti-climatic an ending.

[dkrook]

I agree with the majority opinion in the room. The movie truly sold me on Killmonger as a capable villain. If Coogler can do that to a slightly "suped-up" version of T'challa, then I have faith he can fish through the rogue gallery and some gold nuggets to excite the crowd. Man, I would personally love to see an adapted Moses Magnum that is billed as a Nationalist/industrialist with powers and the resources of a small nation behind him. I think he can be done in a way that could totally smash anything that has been done with Doom onscreen by far.

[Killerbee911]

Honestly I think people are overthinking this issue.

IF Doom is used as the antagonist in the BP movie (and there's no reason to think he will at this point), it won't be out of any need. it'll simply be because Coogler wants to tell a story with Doom. Which is perfectly fine if that's the case. But if Doom isn't used, then he's not used and that's that.

Marvel has done a very good job handling thus far, so I don't think we have anything to worry about either way.

Pretty Much this and using Doom would be probably the highest respect given to character,It is Marvel seeing BP as "the" heavy hitter.


The same very people who are saying don't use Doom for Black Panther movie. If they heard that Marvel is planning to use him as "the Thanos" of the phase 4 and Avengers 5 movie would be Doom centric event where the some of X-men,FF,Avengers and Black Panther would be working together would go yeah that makes sense.

[Cville]

Pretty Much this and using Doom would be probably the highest respect given to character,It is Marvel seeing BP as "the" heavy hitter.


The same very people who are saying don't use Doom for Black Panther movie. If they heard that Marvel is planning to use him as "the Thanos" of the phase 4 and Avengers 5 movie would be Doom centric event where the some of X-men,FF,Avengers and Black Panther would be working together would go yeah that makes sense.

Is Thanos the main villain in anyones' solo movie? I remember him making short cameos to build him up. If they want to have some weapons crates with Latveria labels on them, that is one thing. But not a main villain for a BP solo.

If people want DoomWar, just make that the secondary title of Avengers 6

[MichaelC]

Doom is really cheesey and archaic. He's Silver Age to the core, and can't really be modernized without changing him so much that he's not Doom anymore.

[goku200]

T'Challa didn't end up killing Zemo, and was willing to allow Killmonger to live ... so MCU T'Challa isn't above showing mercy.

But the nice thing about Doom is you actually can "kill" him because you can just say it's a Doombot. I imagine that's the biggest change they would have to make if the did some sort of Doom War adaption. They can't just have them walk away from Doom after shutting down the vibranium. That would be too anti-climatic an ending.

A racist writer making Doom out smart Black Panther in his own country is not the same as not wanting to be a murderer, but nice try.

[Rumble]

Don't use Doom in a Black Panther movie. That's not "respect". BP movie is doing 1 billion + and getting all the attention in the world with it's own black and afrikan villains lol. Put another way, it'll do more money than a hypothetical F4 movie that has Doom as their big bad. Put another way #2, Doom or Namor in a BP movie is doing Doom/Namor a favor (giving them that BP stimulus package) bc BP don't need em, and the general public will rock with never-heard-of Baron Macabre or Zanda just as they did with Erik. That is what it is.

The ultimate respect to BP, by Disney, would be making BP centric in the next (or next few) Avenger movies, regardless of who the next Thanos is; be it Doom, Galactus, Kang, etc. BP movie should be cultivating BP characters and villains.

[MindofShadow]

Is Thanos the main villain in anyones' solo movie? I remember him making short cameos to build him up. If they want to have some weapons crates with Latveria labels on them, that is one thing. But not a main villain for a BP solo.

If people want DoomWar, just make that the secondary title of Avengers 6

Thanos was on screen for all of... 3 minutes? across like 15 movies. 95% of that was in GoG where he sat in a chair.

He had one memorable sentence in 10 years before IW.

There was pretty much no build up to Thanos. there was just a build up to the MacGuffin he wanted.

The only villain ever to get a real build up was Loki. And even then, he wasn't really "built up" in Thor... he was defeated, thoroughly, and just re-surfaced again.