Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[MindofShadow]

Don't use Doom in a Black Panther movie. That's not "respect". BP movie is doing 1 billion + and getting all the attention in the world with it's own black and afrikan villains lol. Put another way, it'll do more money than a hypothetical F4 movie that has Doom as their big bad. Put another way #2, Doom or Namor in a BP movie is doing Doom/Namor a favor (giving them that BP stimulus package) bc BP don't need em, and the general public will rock with never-heard-of Baron Macabre or Zanda just as they did with Erik. That is what it is.

The ultimate respect to BP, by Disney, would be making BP centric in the next (or next few) Avenger movies, regardless of who the next Thanos is; be it Doom, Galactus, Kang, etc. BP movie should be cultivating BP characters and villains.

The same people who want Doom in a BP movie for "respect" are the same people who would flip their shit if T'challa put a knife in his gut at the end of the movie and Doom died.

[ArsonoptiX]

Doom is one of those baddies that would have to be built up before he could be used. FF tried twice to made Doom the baddie and failed because Doom is more than just the bad guy of the week to team up against. I've always like the Namor idea but he'd just be the third party (the misunderstood enemy who become a tense ally that is sprung off to his own). I'm going to go with Fenris or a (seriously revamped) Zeke Stane. There has to be a nationalist slant to the baddie so T'challa can take them on both as a representative on the world stage and on the superhero arena. So it would be politics and superheroics. We gotta get out of Africa for BP2. I'm all for setting up 3 with a BP staple villain (Achebe!!)...but I personally want to see Panther tap dances on someone on the world stage so everybody sees it...not just Wakanda

[Blind Wedjat]

T'Challa didn't end up killing Zemo, and was willing to allow Killmonger to live ... so MCU T'Challa isn't above showing mercy.

But the nice thing about Doom is you actually can "kill" him because you can just say it's a Doombot. I imagine that's the biggest change they would have to make if the did some sort of Doom War adaption. They can't just have them walk away from Doom after shutting down the vibranium. That would be too anti-climatic an ending.

Pretty Much this and using Doom would be probably the highest respect given to character,It is Marvel seeing BP as "the" heavy hitter.

The same very people who are saying don't use Doom for Black Panther movie. If they heard that Marvel is planning to use him as "the Thanos" of the phase 4 and Avengers 5 movie would be Doom centric event where the some of X-men,FF,Avengers and Black Panther would be working together would go yeah that makes sense.

If Coogler wanted to use Doom because he thought he could tell a good story for T'Challa with Doom, then I don't have a problem with that. That is not what I am talking about or have an issue with. I'm addressing these kinds of statements

Dr Doom is one of most big villains in comic period,He is one of the few transcend to the popular culture where more than just regular comic fans know him.

Here is the thing we are talking about ready made character no need to do anything improve in Dr Doom and ready made story in Doomwar which just need to tweak. Every single mention of Black Panther villain had the phrase "you need to fix" or "you have to modernize or rework". Fox did impossible they f*cked up Dr Doom twice because for some reason they taught they had to change Doom. All you have to tell Dr Doom story with no change it works it is amazing how fox mess that up

The thing really bother about me these comments is thought process it is some larger statement on Black Panther if he use Dr Doom there is some sort of deeper meaning like "the Black Hero has to use someone else toys to succeed" " Black Panther to use his own villains because it statement about strength of his personal franchise" etc. When It just Namor and Dr Doom are extended Black Panther villains now and people just want BP2 to be big.


Here is the thing I am long time comic fan but sporadic Black Panther fan but over the years that has changed. This is the simple challenge in mention Dr Doom it means a version of Doomwar for Black Panther, For X-men which I am big fan they have Dark Phoenix, God Love Man Kills, Days of the Future Past, etc. For Batman they have the Killing Joke, Hush, The Long Halloween, Knightfall, etc. When I am seeing people mention villians for Black Panther I am not seeing stories mention when so went look for the classic must tell story for Black Panther I am seeing no order just stuff I am seeing on multiple list

1.Black Panther Vol. 1: The Client
2. Who is the Black Panther
3.Secret Invasion: Black Panther
4.Black Panther: Enemy of The State
5.New Avengers Volume 1: Everything Dies/ Infinity
6.Killmonger’s Rage
7.A Nation Under Our Feet
8.Panther's Rage
9.Enemy Of The State II
10.Sturm Und Drang
11 Captain America/Black Panther: Flags of Our Fathers
12. Black Panther: The Man Without Fear

Where are those villains fitting in on these stories? What is the story as longtime fan that has going this villian should be on the big screen? Honestly in reading comments it feels people just want movie franchise to repair subpar villains in Black Panther gallery instead putting a proven villian from a proven good story.There is whole bunch of this villain "could" be great instead of this villain "was great" in this story and it would make for good movie.

So a couple of stuff

- I don't get the weird fear of using major properties with Black Panther. He is prime time player his rogue gallery is a reflection of that means Baron Zemo, Dr Doom, Red Skull,Norman Osborn, Magneto,Thanos,Galactus and even Namor are in play along with his regular group and being that his regular group is weak. It is good he can lean on the shared universe.

- After seeing what they with Killmonger and Mbaku there is no doubt in my mind that Tetu,Achebe, King Cadaver or whoever they use will be elevated to major villain BUT Dr Doom is probably the best villain(top 5 certainly) in all of comics no you are not making a villain as impressive as Dr Doom.

I don't get it a Superman film would use Darkseid who is New Gods villains with no issue. Black Panther using Dr Doom is some sort of case on Black Panther not being able stand on his own feet? It doesn't make any sense if they have chance to use Dr Doom and tell a version of Doomwar then yeah do it. Because it would be a good movie for sure. They don't have tweak and build up some villain they approach BP2 as the biggest spectacle it can possible be which is good approach imo. It is not matter of not being able to stand on his feet it matter presenting enemies and challenges worthy on the level of hero that he is now. Doomwar would be a big story and it would be hard to find a story another villian that can match it for BP in scope. For the last 10 years Namor has probably been the biggest Black Panther villain no character has probably cause him more pain and flooding Wakanda was huge moment. I could understand if people was talking about using Red Skull or Magneto but it is not that "outside villains" being mention actually have stories with BP.

For all this talk about Doom being such a great villain, nobody outside of the fandom gives a shit about him at the moment. Doom has been in three back-to-back bad superhero movies and his very last appearance is a movie nobody including a star of the BP movie wants to remember. Please tell me how--outside of the realm of comics--Doom is such an in-demand character?

Second, Doom will be adapted for the MCU. He isn't going to be 100% the same Doom from the comics (so I don't know why this user keeps going on about "no need to change") because not one single character is 100% the same from comics to film in the MCU. There will be changes made to Doom, whether people like it or not. I don't know what they are, but they will be made. It happened to Thanos, Loki, and it happened to Killmonger.

The reason why Black Panther fans are asking for the movies to keep using his villains is because of "Oh my god, we so desperately need our villains to be fixed!" (though they do). It's because we want someone who has a passion for BP and his world to take what has great potential and run with it. Coogler did that with TWO of T'Challa's villains at one go, and the BP mythos is better for it. MCU Killmonger and M'Baku are arguably better than their comic book counterparts because Coogler and Cole actually bothered to do the work to write great characters out of them rather than just lazily adapting them panel for panel without any tweaks (which is what this Doom fan wants).

Why is it so confusing then, that this is what Black Panther fans for more of his villains and this should take top priority in his franchise, rather than a sequel being used as a vehicle to quench another fanbase's thirst for a proper adaptation of their favourite character on screen? All under the cover of "it'll make the sequel bigger!" when it doesn't need to be AND all three Doom appearances in movies put together haven't even touched a billion at the box office?

It's not Black Panther's fault that Doom has been straight up ass in movies so therefore it isn't up to him to fix it. You know, a Fantastic Four movie could do that. A Doctor Doom movie could do that. An Avengers movie could do that if need be. I don't see why Black Panther has to deal with that.

[Blind Wedjat]

Doom is one of those baddies that would have to be built up before he could be used. FF tried twice to made Doom the baddie and failed because Doom is more than just the bad guy of the week to team up against. I've always like the Namor idea but he'd just be the third party (the misunderstood enemy who become a tense ally that is sprung off to his own). I'm going to go with Fenris or a (seriously revamped) Zeke Stane. There has to be a nationalist slant to the baddie so T'challa can take them on both as a representative on the world stage and on the superhero arena. So it would be politics and superheroics. We gotta get out of Africa for BP2. I'm all for setting up 3 with a BP staple villain (Achebe!!)...but I personally want to see Panther tap dances on someone on the world stage so everybody sees it...not just Wakanda

We can get out of the African continent a little for the sequel, sure (though my hope is that they don't not too much to give Wakanda some screen time, maybe some more worldbuilding, and visit other African countries as well). But we can do that with a BP villain.

[XPac]

A racist writer making Doom out smart Black Panther in his own country is not the same as not wanting to be a murderer, but nice try.

I don't think a writer is racist simply because they have a villain outsmart the hero. In super hero fiction, that's going to happen from time to time.

That said, I would certainly agree a villain outsmarting a hero isn't the same thing as murder, and I never said it was. All I am saying is that MCU T'CHalla opted not to kill Zemo in the Civil War movie, and was willing to spare Killmonger. So in reference to the post I was responding to which said that T'CHalla not killing Namor and Doom would be assasination of the BP mythos, I'd argue he showed a good deal of mercy in this regard. Which isn't to say he necessarily won't kill someone (again you can "kill" Doom because of the Doombot out), but you can just as easily argue he wouldn't.

[XPac]

If Coogler wanted to use Doom because he thought he could tell a good story for T'Challa with Doom, then I don't have a problem with that. That is not what I am talking about or have an issue with. I'm addressing these kinds of statements





For all this talk about Doom being such a great villain, nobody outside of the fandom gives a shit about him at the moment. Doom has been in three back-to-back bad superhero movies and his very last appearance is a movie nobody including a star of the BP movie wants to remember. Please tell me how--outside of the realm of comics--Doom is such an in-demand character?

Second, Doom will be adapted for the MCU. He isn't going to be 100% the same Doom from the comics (so I don't know why this user keeps going on about "no need to change") because not one single character is 100% the same from comics to film in the MCU. There will be changes made to Doom, whether people like it or not. I don't know what they are, but they will be made. It happened to Thanos, Loki, and it happened to Killmonger.

The reason why Black Panther fans are asking for the movies to keep using his villains is because of "Oh my god, we so desperately need our villains to be fixed!" (though they do). It's because we want someone who has a passion for BP and his world to take what has great potential and run with it. Coogler did that with TWO of T'Challa's villains at one go, and the BP mythos is better for it. MCU Killmonger and M'Baku are arguably better than their comic book counterparts because Coogler and Cole actually bothered to do the work to write great characters out of them rather than just lazily adapting them panel for panel without any tweaks (which is what this Doom fan wants).

Why is it so confusing then, that this is what Black Panther fans for more of his villains and this should take top priority in his franchise, rather than a sequel being used as a vehicle to quench another fanbase's thirst for a proper adaptation of their favourite character on screen? All under the cover of "it'll make the sequel bigger!" when it doesn't need to be AND all three Doom appearances in movies haven't even touched a billion at the box office?

It's not Black Panther's fault that Doom has been straight up ass in movies so therefore it isn't up to him to fix it. You know, a Fantastic Four movie could do that. A Doctor Doom movie could do that. An Avengers movie could do that if need be. I don't see why Black Panther has to deal with that.

I don't think anyone said a BP movie specifically HAS to fix Doom.

I think marvel as a whole probably does want to do it. And a BP movie I suppose is theoretically one place where that process could take place, though it's certainly not the only or even the most obvious choice.

[Rumble]

A racist writer making Doom out smart Black Panther in his own country is not the same as not wanting to be a murderer, but nice try.

Lol, are you going to give credit for the effort tho?

The biggest change to an MCU Doom War adapation would be: (1) Victor dying... because BP can distinguish between a Doombot and Victor, and (2) the vibranium remaining in Wakanda, safe and sound... because nobody cares to see vibranium removed from the MCU for a villain nobody but internet neckbeards cares about.

However, like Civil War and Ultron, a Doom War adapation would be completely different than the comics, and the internet neckbeards would just bitch about Victor taking that L anyway. They say they want their Doom-bae in BP 2, but they really don't. They don't want Victor portrayed as this racist european dictator with inferior tech that gets outsmarted and pwned by this Obama 007 Afrikan. As amusing as that fallout would be to observe, fuck them. Bring on Baron Macabre, Solomon, Zanda, the frog, and Mr. Little the GOAT

[Rumble]

The same people who want Doom in a BP movie for "respect" are the same people who would flip their shit if T'challa put a knife in his gut at the end of the movie and Doom died.

Yup, it's so transparent. They'd want things to go one way, but it would go another way...

and they'd be furious.

"This Obama 007 Afrikan is a gary stu! "

[XPac]

Doom is one of those baddies that would have to be built up before he could be used. FF tried twice to made Doom the baddie and failed because Doom is more than just the bad guy of the week to team up against. I've always like the Namor idea but he'd just be the third party (the misunderstood enemy who become a tense ally that is sprung off to his own). I'm going to go with Fenris or a (seriously revamped) Zeke Stane. There has to be a nationalist slant to the baddie so T'challa can take them on both as a representative on the world stage and on the superhero arena. So it would be politics and superheroics. We gotta get out of Africa for BP2. I'm all for setting up 3 with a BP staple villain (Achebe!!)...but I personally want to see Panther tap dances on someone on the world stage so everybody sees it...not just Wakanda

Yeah, that's why I'm doubtful he would be the antagonist in a BP movie. Not that he in theory doesn't work in that regard, but I think marvel would want to build him up to be more of an Avenger level threat rather than a single heroes problem. I imagine like Thanos we'll see Doom pop up in muplitple places before we get a movie about him.

I don't think Namor should be used as a villain either, but the idea of building up other kings and kingdoms in the MCU is kinda fun. Seeing various kings interact down the line might be fun, and that can be built up to a bigger story down the line.

[Rumble]

For all this talk about Doom being such a great villain, nobody outside of the fandom gives a shit about him at the moment. Doom has been in three back-to-back bad superhero movies and his very last appearance is a movie nobody including a star of the BP movie wants to remember. Please tell me how--outside of the realm of comics--Doom is such an in-demand character?

Second, Doom will be adapted for the MCU. He isn't going to be 100% the same Doom from the comics (so I don't know why this user keeps going on about "no need to change") because not one single character is 100% the same from comics to film in the MCU. There will be changes made to Doom, whether people like it or not. I don't know what they are, but they will be made. It happened to Thanos, Loki, and it happened to Killmonger.

The reason why Black Panther fans are asking for the movies to keep using his villains is because of "Oh my god, we so desperately need our villains to be fixed!" (though they do). It's because we want someone who has a passion for BP and his world to take what has great potential and run with it. Coogler did that with TWO of T'Challa's villains at one go, and the BP mythos is better for it. MCU Killmonger and M'Baku are arguably better than their comic book counterparts because Coogler and Cole actually bothered to do the work to write great characters out of them rather than just lazily adapting them panel for panel without any tweaks (which is what this Doom fan wants).

Why is it so confusing then, that this is what Black Panther fans for more of his villains and this should take top priority in his franchise, rather than a sequel being used as a vehicle to quench another fanbase's thirst for a proper adaptation of their favourite character on screen? All under the cover of "it'll make the sequel bigger!" when it doesn't need to be AND all three Doom appearances in movies put together haven't even touched a billion at the box office?

It's not Black Panther's fault that Doom has been straight up ass in movies so therefore it isn't up to him to fix it. You know, a Fantastic Four movie could do that. A Doctor Doom movie could do that. An Avengers movie could do that if need be. I don't see why Black Panther has to deal with that.

True true. In truth, showing more of Wakanda and greater cgi budget allocation to action/set pieces will make the sequel "bigger". Doom's box office receipts is doodoo

The z-list Supremacists + cartoon Zanda + Baron GOAT Macabre all have superpowers that are made for the cinematic. A revamped Macabre can easily be the big bad and that + Avengers level cgi, gives you the "bigger sequel". That's not what the internet neckbeards want to hear tho...

They don't want Baron Macabre elevated to the next big deal like Erik was. They'd have rather had Namor in Erik's place as BP 1's villain. They want Reed as T'Challa's best friend and homie, not W'Kabi or M'Baku. I see it, you see it, everyone sees it. Transparent as fukkkk

[Blind Wedjat]

True true. In truth, showing more of Wakanda and greater cgi budget allocation to action/set pieces will make the sequel "bigger". Doom's box office receipts is doodoo

The z-list Supremacists + cartoon Zanda + Baron GOAT Macabre all have superpowers that are made for the cinematic. A revamped Macabre can easily be the big bad and that + Avengers level cgi, gives you the "bigger sequel". That's not what the internet neckbeards want to hear tho...

They don't want Baron Macabre elevated to the next big deal like Erik was. They'd have rather had Namor in Erik's place as BP 1's villain. They want Reed as T'Challa's best friend and homie, not W'Kabi or M'Baku. I see it, you see it, everyone sees it. Transparent as fukkkk

The same people saying Doom or Namor would make the BP sequel bigger are the same people who didn't think BP would do over a billion because it had a majorly all black cast (and "you know how these movies do") and was without any major cameos from the MCU. Now all of a sudden, to be bigger is do not do the very thing that set it apart from every other superhero movie this decade.

[Blind Wedjat]

I mean really this whole thing doesn't make any bloody sense.

You think if you asked any Spider-Man or Doctor Strange fan that Doctor Doom should be the villain to their sequel to make it bigger would want that? Especially when Spidey and Strange have their own unique villains with potential to be tapped into. Ask anyone from this fanbase which villains they want to see and they'll drop names like Kraven the Hunter or Nightmare, not Doctor Doom

Imagine telling an X-Men fan "The X-Men movies haven't been doing so well so how about we make Doctor Doom the villain for the sequel?" You think they'll want that when they've got Mister Sinister or Omega Red to explore?

Hell take it over to DC. You think any Superman fan dying for a sequel and who may have been disappointed with Man of Steel would immediately want Darkseid as the villain? Ask any Superman fan now and what they want is Braniac, Metallo, a better Lex Luthor. You know, ACTUAL Superman villains. No Batman fan would want a borrowed villain to make the sequel bigger when they're asking for the Court of Owls, Clayface, Hush, Riddler etc.

But nah, BP2 should have Doom to be bigger.

[MindofShadow]

"Bucky is gonna be revived to help save the day in BP"

"Cap is still in Wakanda, he will probably help save the day in BP"

"I bet hte Avengers will show up to help save the day in BP"

True true. In truth, showing more of Wakanda and greater cgi budget allocation to action/set pieces will make the sequel "bigger". Doom's box office receipts is doodoo

The z-list Supremacists + cartoon Zanda + Baron GOAT Macabre all have superpowers that are made for the cinematic. A revamped Macabre can easily be the big bad and that + Avengers level cgi, gives you the "bigger sequel". That's not what the internet neckbeards want to hear tho...

They don't want Baron Macabre elevated to the next big deal like Erik was. They'd have rather had Namor in Erik's place as BP 1's villain. They want Reed as T'Challa's best friend and homie, not W'Kabi or M'Baku. I see it, you see it, everyone sees it. Transparent as fukkkk

Maybe Bucky will lead the HZ?

right? RIGHT?

He is White Wolf afterall!!??!!
'

[MindofShadow]

Lol, are you going to give credit for the effort tho?

The biggest change to an MCU Doom War adapation would be: (1) Victor dying... because BP can distinguish between a Doombot and Victor, and (2) the vibranium remaining in Wakanda, safe and sound... because nobody cares to see vibranium removed from the MCU for a villain nobody but internet neckbeards cares about.

However, like Civil War and Ultron, a Doom War adapation would be completely different than the comics, and the internet neckbeards would just bitch about Victor taking that L anyway. They say they want their Doom-bae in BP 2, but they really don't. They don't want Victor portrayed as this racist european dictator with inferior tech that gets outsmarted and pwned by this Obama 007 Afrikan. As amusing as that fallout would be to observe, fuck them. Bring on Baron Macabre, Solomon, Zanda, the frog, and Mr. Little the GOAT

Yup, it's so transparent. They'd want things to go one way, but it would go another way...

and they'd be furious.

"This Obama 007 Afrikan is a gary stu! "

The same people saying Doom or Namor would make the BP sequel bigger are the same people who didn't think BP would do over a billion because it had a majorly all black cast (and "you know how these movies do") and was without any major cameos from the MCU. Now all of a sudden, to be bigger is do not do the very thing that set it apart from every other superhero movie this decade.

Whatever villain is chosen, his sole purpose will be to ENHANCE T'challa's story.

It is why they changed the ending with Killmonger. Because it weakened TCHALLA's story.

Comic nerds stanning for Doom or Namor or whoever actually don't want Coogler to get his hands on them. Because then, the character they are stanning for, will exist for the sole purpose of telling the best TCHALLA story possible and they will be sacrificed for that cause. All that ugly Doom stuff... the racist, dictator, evil stuff... that stuff will come to the surface. None of that, "oh no the misunderstood glorius Doom!." Nah... he gonna be a villain and he gonna take panther claws to the chest .

I kinda want Namor, the villian (no hero in him at all) just to see him catch the L lol

I mean really this whole thing doesn't make any bloody sense.

You think if you asked any Spider-Man or Doctor Strange fan that Doctor Doom should be the villain to their sequel to make it bigger would want that? Especially when Spidey and Strange have their own unique villains with potential to be tapped into. Ask anyone from this fanbase which villains they want to see and they'll drop names like Kraven the Hunter or Nightmare, not Doctor Doom

Imagine telling an X-Men fan "The X-Men movies haven't been doing so well so how about we make Doctor Doom the villain for the sequel?" You think they'll want that when they've got Mister Sinister or Omega Red to explore?

Hell take it over to DC. You think any Superman fan dying for a sequel and who may have been disappointed with Man of Steel would immediately want Darkseid as the villain? Ask any Superman fan now and what they want is Braniac, Metallo, a better Lex Luthor. You know, ACTUAL Superman villains. No Batman fan would want a borrowed villain to make the sequel bigger when they're asking for the Court of Owls, Clayface, Hush, Riddler etc.

But nah, BP2 should have Doom to be bigger.

If Doom is this great awesome villain and threat they love, then just save him for an Avengers movie then.

[XPac]

I mean really this whole thing doesn't make any bloody sense.

You think if you asked any Spider-Man or Doctor Strange fan that Doctor Doom should be the villain to their sequel to make it bigger would want that? Especially when Spidey and Strange have their own unique villains with potential to be tapped into. Ask anyone from this fanbase which villains they want to see and they'll drop names like Kraven the Hunter or Nightmare, not Doctor Doom

Imagine telling an X-Men fan "The X-Men movies haven't been doing so well so how about we make Doctor Doom the villain for the sequel?" You think they'll want that when they've got Mister Sinister or Omega Red to explore?

Hell take it over to DC. You think any Superman fan dying for a sequel and who may have been disappointed with Man of Steel would immediately want Darkseid as the villain? Ask any Superman fan now and what they want is Braniac, Metallo, a better Lex Luthor. You know, ACTUAL Superman villains. No Batman fan would want a borrowed villain to make the sequel bigger when they're asking for the Court of Owls, Clayface, Hush, Riddler etc.

But nah, BP2 should have Doom to be bigger.

Speaking as a Dr. Strange fan, I think a movie adaptation of Triumph and Torment would be pretty awesome.