Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[Marvell2100]

Can we please get through the 2nd movie before we go all fatalistic? Why so much angst about what Coogler and Marvel are going to do?

We talk about Coates gloom and doom T'Challa but we have enough of that in this thread when T'Challa is getting love in other comics and his 2nd movie is secured.

[Mr MajestiK]

Can we please get through the 2nd movie before we go all fatalistic? Why so much angst about what Coogler and Marvel are going to do?

We talk about Coates gloom and doom T'Challa but we have enough of that in this thread when T'Challa is getting love in other comics and his 2nd movie is secured.

As always, you remain a very positive and influential OG in this thread.

[Marvell2100]

As always, you remain a very positive and influential OG in this thread.

My bro, I give that credit to my mother. She raised me and my brother and sister to look at the world in a positive light.

Believe me, I know there is enough going on in the BP solo to make most BP fans say frak it.

But I like what I see going on in Avengers and AoW so far and that's where I get my fix.

And I like coming in here and chatting with my CBB bros, particularly the Chaos Bringer.

[Ekie]

I don't know about the other two, but DuVernay had a chance to follow her own vision of a film with A Wrinkle In Time.

It LOST 131 million dollars. And in its first weekend, it didn't even win the box office... instead coming in 2nd to a movie that had already been out for 3 weeks:

Black Panther

Don't get me wrong. he did a better job than whatever flowery poetic thing that Ava was going to turn out. But keep in mind that she was working with more freedom and less bonafide golden content then he was.

[Ekie]

is Black Panther going to be in Marvel's Avengers? That's all I want to know. They've got Ms. Marvel in the game.

I either need to see BP in the game or a solo game announcement

He better be. it will be the first real look at what a black panther solo video game might look like. The fact that we haven't gotten one announced by now is highly suspect.
I am Spider-Man video gamed out

[Ekie]

I don't know why you keep reiterating this "no one is bigger than the franchise" thing when it isn't my point.

Ava said her and Marvel disagreed on things. All we can take from that is that they didn't like her pitch, whatever it was. Marvel went on looking for other directors and picked Coogler. Saying he was picked because he was more flexible is an assumption. All we know is that they liked his pitch well enough to accept him. In fact, Marvel tends to suggest cinematographers, composers and production designers and other crew members to work on their films (go look at how many MCU films have these in common) because the directors they hire may not have the experience working on big budget films and these guys will make it easier. Coogler got to pick who he wanted in this regard, so he wasn't as flexible or compromising as you're painting him out to be.

Which is my point that you're not getting. Black Panther was undoubtedly his film and nobody else would have made it the same way he did. If in an alternate universe Ava did direct Black Panther and it also won Oscars, it would be because she directed it, not because it's Black Panther. Your argument is a very flawed view on how filmmaking works and how good films are achieved. Directors are responsible for how well a film is translated on screen and how good that translation is acts as a testament of their skill.

I mean, we've had several writers write Black Panther comics and not all of them are considered great or even good. Priest's Black Panther is revered because it was Priest that wrote it, not because the Black Panther property was always good and anybody could have written a BP comic. We've seen multiple times that not everybody can do that.

Can someone remind me again what black panther issue number one sold under its current writter?

your point is valid if you were talking about any old film or even any old comic book film. However this wasn't any old comic book film it was the biggest African American Blockbuster to have ever been released that didn't showcase us in chains or the hood. That kind of helps. Not to mention the fact that the idea of wakanda there's something powerful all on its own as far as marketing in wonder. I'm of the firm belief that this is the franchise and anyone connected to it is lucky to be so. There is no other entity like it.

[Ekie]

Can we please get through the 2nd movie before we go all fatalistic? Why so much angst about what Coogler and Marvel are going to do?

We talk about Coates gloom and doom T'Challa but we have enough of that in this thread when T'Challa is getting love in other comics and his 2nd movie is secured.

I'll toast to that. I just enjoy giving constructive criticism when it's due. I still enjoyed the movie and wakandas portrayal.

[Marvell2100]

I'll toast to that. I just enjoy giving constructive criticism when it's due. I still enjoyed the movie and wakandas portrayal.

It's all good my bro. We all want good things for BP.

[Ezyo1000]

Im confused, did Marvel chose him or did Ava choose not to direct because she couldn't fully get her way and they went with their second choice because he was more flexible?
nowhere in my post that I say any director could have done as good a job. I said there are others who could have. Ava, Gray and Especially Fuqua in more opinion are more than capable.
I mean does anyone here think that Coogler could goto DC and make a cyborg movie that would "win oscars" and break records?
No one is bigger than the franchise

.

There are a number of capable directors black or otherwise that may even so a better job. Franchise is bigger then any one person

????

[Ekie]

"A number" vs Any

[FLEX HECTIC]

Who said Coogler was irreplaceable...

[XPac]

I don't see why he wouldn't since he's in every other Marvel game. It's only a matter of time.

I think the point of DLC's is to make money by having people pay money to play characters people want. And that likely means having several popular characters left off the main title so people will be forced to play them. A character like Black Panther fits that bill perfectly. I bed we'll get Spider-Man that way too.

[skyvolt2000]

I don't know about the other two, but DuVernay had a chance to follow her own vision of a film with A Wrinkle In Time.

It LOST 131 million dollars. And in its first weekend, it didn't even win the box office... instead coming in 2nd to a movie that had already been out for 3 weeks:

Black Panther

She was given a movie based on a book that mainly aims at GIRLS.
She was given a movie where the lead was a biracial black girl-you already know the usual suspects took issue with her alone.
Oprah was in it. She above.
A lot of stuff was edited out of the final product when compared to the book and other film versions.
Then came Brie Larson.
She was facing a battle she didn't start. Now let her try Panther and see all the mess Cap Marvel dealt with-triple that with her being a black female.

Priest's Black Panther is revered because it was Priest that wrote it, not because the Black Panther property was always good and anybody could have written a BP comic. We've seen multiple times that not everybody can do that.

Priest gets more of the praise because NO ONE had a longer run for Panther than him.
He also gave a master class on being a TRUE comic book professional. He did NOT care for that character. Does that even show in any issue of his run?

However this wasn't any old comic book film it was the biggest African American Blockbuster to have ever been released that didn't showcase us in chains or the hood.

The Black Panther movie was the final straw for black folks. Every excuse was made to belittle us and to NOT do stuff with us as the leads.
Tyler Perry, Kevin Hart, Ava, Tim Story and various black folks did nothing but have box office success. Only to get excuses tossed at them.

Black People along with others responded. Not just at the box office but in the book stores too. For a YEAR Black Panther books including WOW & Crew dominated trade sales. Then Black Panther merchandise left shelves left and right.

Mind you this film got made with someone FIGHTING to keep it from getting made. yet his name is on the credits. We just found out who that was.

[Ezyo1000]

"A number" vs Any

semantics really. A number of capable directors who may do better.. that a high bar set by Coogler. Of which I wouldn't even say he is going to outdo himself. Is it possible? Hell yeah. But it's not as though it was going to be an auto smash hit larger than any other Solo hero in history no matter what.

[DigiCom]

She was given a movie based on a book that mainly aims at GIRLS.
She was given a movie where the lead was a biracial black girl-you already know the usual suspects took issue with her alone.
Oprah was in it. She above.
A lot of stuff was edited out of the final product when compared to the book and other film versions.
Then came Brie Larson.
She was facing a battle she didn't start. Now let her try Panther and see all the mess Cap Marvel dealt with-triple that with her being a black female.

Your details are somewhat incorrect.

A Wrinkle In Time is an award-winning novel written at a time when people didn't "aim at GIRLS". I've read it. Hell, I still have the copy I bought when I was a kid.
The lead character in the book is NOT described as bi-racial. That choice was almost certainly DuVernay's.
The character played by Oprah is pretty much unrecognizable as the book character, as are her "sisters". Wanna guess whose choice was that?

You seem to think that the creative decisions in Wrinkle that didn't work are somehow not the director's fault. But then again, this entire discussion seems to not understand the influence a director has on a film. "It's the character/franchise! That's what makes money!"

If that was the case, all those Batman films would have made as much money as TDK. All the Spider-Man movies would have done as well, too. After all the franchise is more important than the director?

Right?

Pardon my French, but bullsiht.

History is FULL of hit franchises, from James Bond to Star Wars, where a bad script/director leads to a bad movie. (Does the name Solo ring a bell?). The reason the MCU has done so well is not because of any "franchise", but because Marvel Studios in general (and, I suspect, Feige in particular) have been smart about picking the right directors for the right films.

Coogler (and his writing partner, Joe Robert Cole) took a character barely known to the public at large and created a great script, which he turned into a great movie. Implying that there are a number of other directors, black or otherwise, who could have done as good of a job begs a simple question:

"Where are their 3 billion dollar movies?"

Now, it's entirely possible that you may be right. Maybe someone else could have done as well or better (but I still think DuVernay is over-rated).

All I ask is that you give Coogler some credit for his achievement.

Respect the man's skills!